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[LC110]

Jerry could not have stated it any better. If you are concerned about your engine wear. Than run what ever oil you want and send a sample in and have an oil analysis done on it. Then run a different oil for the same amount of miles and send that in and compare the two reports. It will cost you $50 for the two test.
Now I will save you the $50.00. Use one of the top name brand synthetic's and enjoy your ride.

[donvito]

I think, if this guy actually kept up with what goes on at Harley, he would realize that those lifter rollers were defective and that's what caused the scoring.  It was a fairly widely reported problem a few years back, actually.  And it had nothing to do with an oil failure, and everything to do with bad part quality. 

Go back and ask him for another supposed bit of proof.  The bearing skidding and the lifter and cam scoring are total BS, so what else has he got? 

Btw, just because someone puts a label on their oil and calls it "Racing" doesn't exactly mean anything.  Kind of like at the super market where they label all kinds of stuff as "organic" with no proof, or gluten free even though all similar products are naturally gluten free anyway.  And true racing products are rarely good for street machines, since they don't contain the same additives the street products do for longer term protection.  Real racing oil gets changed every race.

As I've said before, believe all the BS and hype you want, but if the major oil brands really caused all the damage people like this guy claims, they'd be out of business.  They actually do real scientific testing to industry standards, including wear tests that would definitely expose this so-called oil induced scoring of the cams and lifters.   Ask him to show his scientific testing to back up his claims.

Jerry

Agree, but wanted to add what I found out about "Racing" oils is that's the only legal way the mfg'r could sell oil with zinc in it, ever since cats came out and also the disappearance of flat tappets.
On another note, I have found scoring especially on cam lobes or lifter rollers comes from people running dirty oil, or they have filtered intake leaks that they don't take care of is a big contributor. This is separate from the defective lifters that HD makes.

[East Coast]

Service manager who used to do a lot of engine building down in Fla told me the same thing. Old bike ('11 CVO) had 36k miles on it when I traded it in. 2 scored cam lobes. Lifters and cams might have lasted another 10k  . They changed them all out using my ESP. Trying out the non syn on the '15 CVO. After all, it's a wet head so it has to run cooler ,,,right? And I hate to say it and it would be nice not to have to use it, but it does have a warranty (and ESP). 

I would think it was a stock lifter(s) about to fail which caused the cam scoring and not the oil you were using. Folks with 2010, 2011 and 12 CVO's were swapping out stock lifters due to the probability of them failing, and they were. I'm sticking with a full synthetic motor oil. I  completed the 1000 mile service last week and switched over to Mobil1 Syn.

[FLSTFI Dave]

The lifers in the 110 motors from 09 on are notorious for failing.  Has nothing to do with synthetic oil.

Run a good name brand full synthetic. 

[North Star]

I was also told to stick to mineral oil after my rebuild for the same reasons. I ran the Brad Penn mineral oil for a bit, but have now switched to the Brad Penn semi synthetic. Yes, it is marketed as "race oil" because of the high zinc and phosphorous, which is fine for me because I don't run a cat, and run other fluids in the primary and trans.

HD recommends their Syn 3, which is a partial synthetic and not full. A lot of people assume HD doesn't know chit about the bikes they build, and they know better. Um, maybe there is a reason they don't recommend full synthetic?

Finally, it's also up to you which opinion you trust- that of a professional builder, or the opinions of others that do not work on bikes for a living.

[grc]

I was also told to stick to mineral oil after my rebuild for the same reasons. I ran the Brad Penn mineral oil for a bit, but have now switched to the Brad Penn semi synthetic. Yes, it is marketed as "race oil" because of the high zinc and phosphorous, which is fine for me because I don't run a cat, and run other fluids in the primary and trans.

HD recommends their Syn 3, which is a partial synthetic and not full. A lot of people assume HD doesn't know chit about the bikes they build, and they know better. Um, maybe there is a reason they don't recommend full synthetic?
Finally, it's also up to you which opinion you trust- that of a professional builder, or the opinions of others that do not work on bikes for a living.

North Star, you seem to be operating under a major misconception.  Who told you SYN 3 is a semi-synthetic?  Harley plainly labels and advertises the SYN 3 as a Full Synthetic; take a look at the bottle and the information in the catalog.  There was a short period of time when they offered both a full syn and a semi-syn oil, but the semi-syn isn't even in the catalog anymore.

As for your last comment, I know a lot of folks who work on bikes for a living that don't know chit and just pass along the wives tales they learned listening to the other guys they've worked with.  Take all the shots you want at those of us who don't make a living wrenching on bikes, but since you are also in that category why should anyone listen to you either?  With all the examples on this site and others of the totally wrong information supposed professionals have handed out to Harley customers over the years , I can't imagine anyone blindly believing someone just because they turn wrenches for a living.   Many years ago I used to be one of the guys who went out to dealerships to teach and help a lot of professional wrench turners.  I guess my employer should have saved his money and left it up to those professional wrench turners to figure it out on their own.

Rant over, have a great day.

Jerry

[RAINEY]

The Syn 3 Full Syn is by the court of law considered a full synthetic.  The H-D Syn 3 is blended by Citgo the most un American oil company you can get.  They use a Group III basestock which to us oil industry snobs do not consider it a full syn basestock.  You need to be a Group IV PAO, PAG or POE to truly be a synthetic.  Group III is just a conventional crude oil refined a little more.

I guess as most oil topics they get way off course.

Back to the OP's questions.  Use the VR-1 20w50 with confidence.  It's a good oil.  The VR-1 Racing (off-road) has a lot more additives.

[iski]

This full syn version is $35 for 6 at Wally World

[grc]

The Syn 3 Full Syn is by the court of law considered a full synthetic.  The H-D Syn 3 is blended by Citgo the most un American oil company you can get.  They use a Group III basestock which to us oil industry snobs do not consider it a full syn basestock.  You need to be a Group IV PAO, PAG or POE to truly be a synthetic.  Group III is just a conventional crude oil refined a little more.

I guess as most oil topics they get way off course.

Back to the OP's questions.  Use the VR-1 20w50 with confidence.  It's a good oil.  The VR-1 Racing (off-road) has a lot more additives.

Now we're really going out on a limb to pick nits.  Yes, in the USA a court decision in a case between Amsoil and Castrol was decided in such a way that Castrol was allowed to advertise their synthetic that included Group III basestock as synthetic without noting it included very highly refined mineral oil.  That is not the same thing as the semi-synthetic, or in Harley's terminology "synthetic blend", oils on the market that are in fact labeled as blends or semi-synthetic.  The blends are sold as a product that provides some of the benefits of the synthetics at a lower price point.  The last time I saw a catalog with Harley's Synthetic Blend in it, it was priced at $9 something per quart when SYN 3 was about $12.  Some car manufacturers also use syn blends as opposed to "full" synthetics for factory fill, and of course some use real "full" synthetics like Mobil 1 as factory fill.  Those are usually the lower volume and higher priced vehicles where it's easy to absorb the higher production costs.

I have no objection to anyone using whatever brand or type of oil they want.  What I have a big objection to is people blowing smoke up other peoples butts, like the bearing skating stuff, to push their agenda.  What makes it even worse is when these so-called professionals blow that smoke up enough butts, many of those customers then jump on the internet and spread the BS as if it is gospel.

Anyone with decent credit can buy some tools and equipment, rent a shop space, and put a sign outside claiming to be a professional whatever, be it a mechanic, a tuner, an engine builder, etc.  The word professional just means they get paid for what they do, it doesn't mean they are actually qualified or an expert.  I've worked with many professionals over the years who were as far from experts as it is possible to be.  So taking the word of some guy just because he is a professional (gets paid for what he does) is not exactly a great idea.  All you have to do to find some great examples of what I'm talking about is to read some of the threads where several folks who proclaim to be professional tuners blow smoke up each others butts, call each other names, and at least on this site get banned.  All are professionals, not all are experts or even reasonably qualified.

Jerry

[DCFIREMANN]

I use only synthetic motor oil in all of my equipment. No matter what it is. From my John Deere Diesel Tractor to my Sacred Ole Punkin. It is nothing but an old wives tale about the use of dino oil in these or any other engine. Zippers who (for the most part) are very well respected in the world of Harley Davidson and set me straight on motor oils. They use nothing but Red Line oil. Yes Red Line sponsored them back in the race days, but they have stuck with it long after hanging up their leathers. IMHO and yes it is just mine. I run Red Line in all of my Harley's.

Jerry you Sir are still the Master!!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[North Star]

I think I know which builder the OP is referring to, and he didn't just rent a shop and throw up a sign. I think he's the one who built and tuned my bike, along with literally over 100 110 ci engines in particular.

My point to the OP is that he will have to chose who's opinion to go with- a renowned engine builder or the popular opinion of the internet. There are way too many varying opinions on forums and on the internet in general, most of which is from people who, if you ask them, source their opinion back to, "well that's what everyone else says". I don't know you Jerry, and weren't referring to you being one of these people specifically- it was more of a generalization.

As far as me giving my opinions, I try to qualify why I give an answer or opinion to a particular question posed in a thread, like saying, "a lot around here like Fullsac's products", or "I have Rinehart mufflers and like them", as opposed to saying, "Fullsac and Rinehart are the best!".
I don't think anyone should take my 2 cents as gospel, because my profession is not in the motorcycle industry, and I don't claim to have above average knowledge in this field, referred to as "expert opinion" in my occupation. People can take my opinion for what's it's worth to them. That's what forums are mainly used for- discussing products and our experiences with them.

Getting back to oil, the reasons for me going with what my builder says is because he is the one who is stands behind his engine work should something go wrong, and I know of no ill effect of using a premium grade semi-synthetic oil.

[HarleyJeffOregon]

I have been using Harley synthetic since new. 80,000 and counting and no issues except the lifters that were replaced. I change just every 5,000.