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[CVO2FIXUP]

 Is any one using this valvoline vr1 20w50 non synthetic oil? It was explained to me by a well respected builder that HD roller engines dont do to well with synthetic oils as they are TO "slippery" and will make the rollers "skid " causing premature wear. He races a old air cooled BMW and uses this VR1.  Also said that HD engines run much quieter with the non synthetic VR1.  Any thoughts.  I am going to try it. 

[Cat Eye]

How often will you now change the oil using this Non-synthetic?

I am still trying to wrap my head around the oil being to slippery....and which rollers are you referring to?  The rollers on the lifters (tappets)?

[grc]

Is any one using this valvoline vr1 20w50 non synthetic oil? It was explained to me by a well respected builder that HD roller engines dont do to well with synthetic oils as they are TO "slippery" and will make the rollers "skid " causing premature wear. He races a old air cooled BMW and uses this VR1.  Also said that HD engines run much quieter with the non synthetic VR1.  Any thoughts.  I am going to try it.

What he spouted to you is the same wives tale crap Harley used to spout to it's customers, right up until the day they came out with their own synthetic oil.  H-D didn't change the engines, they just started selling synthetic oil.  Suddenly it went from being bad for your engine to being the best thing since sex.  I'm guessing your well respected builder is an oldtimer who hasn't kept up with modern science.  If his bearings are skidding, tell him to pay closer attention to his tolerances when he fits bearings to shafts.

Synthetic oil is much more stable at high temps.  If you want to run a conventional oil, you will need to change it more often and watch oil temps more closely.  It's going to cost you more to change oil twice as often.  So what's the up side?

Jerry

[kojak]

How often will you now change the oil using this Non-synthetic?

I am still trying to wrap my head around the oil being to slippery....and which rollers are you referring to?  The rollers on the lifters (tappets)?

I suspect he was talking about a roller rocker upgrade. I don't get the slippery oil reference either.

[grc]

I suspect he was talking about a roller rocker upgrade. I don't get the slippery oil reference either.

Nope.  He was talking about the roller and needle bearings used throughout the engine.  Crankshaft main bearings, rod bearings, inner cam bearings, etc. 

Jerry

[CVO2FIXUP]

 He was saying that he took apart engines that had 40   50K miles on them using the non synthetic oils and saw no wear as compared to less mileage synthetic oil engines. Said he sees allot more scoring on cams and lifters with synthetic oils.

[OBB]

He was saying that he took apart engines that had 40   50K miles on them using the non synthetic oils and saw no wear as compared to less mileage synthetic oil engines. Said he sees allot more scoring on cams and lifters with synthetic oils.

Service manager who used to do a lot of engine building down in Fla told me the same thing. Old bike ('11 CVO) had 36k miles on it when I traded it in. 2 scored cam lobes. Lifters and cams might have lasted another 10k  . They changed them all out using my ESP. Trying out the non syn on the '15 CVO. After all, it's a wet head so it has to run cooler ,,,right? And I hate to say it and it would be nice not to have to use it, but it does have a warranty (and ESP). 

[grc]

He was saying that he took apart engines that had 40   50K miles on them using the non synthetic oils and saw no wear as compared to less mileage synthetic oil engines. Said he sees allot more scoring on cams and lifters with synthetic oils.

OK, so now the story changes and it isn't roller bearings skidding, but it's cams and lifters scoring.  What next?

Pure horse hockey, but believe what you want.

Jerry

[donvito]

Is any one using this valvoline vr1 20w50 non synthetic oil? It was explained to me by a well respected builder that HD roller engines dont do to well with synthetic oils as they are TO "slippery" and will make the rollers "skid " causing premature wear. He races a old air cooled BMW and uses this VR1.  Also said that HD engines run much quieter with the non synthetic VR1.  Any thoughts.  I am going to try it.

Calling BS here on your respected builder! I used a builder that told me the same crap on the lifters, in reality they just plain wore out. Id be more concerned that the VR1 oil has extra zinc in it, which will kill your cat if youre running one.

[RAINEY]

There's two Valvoline VR-1 20w50 racing oils. One is street legal and the other one not street legal which is very high in zinc. The street legal version is fine for your cats.

Jason

[EZRIDN]

....another oil thread.....

[CVODON]

In a past life I was part of R&D on one of, if not the #1 synthetic. All this is crap, the engine builder spewing this stuff is, I am sure a chemical engineer and was able to, with his eyes only tell it was a oil situation that affected the engine?
He is wasting his skills in MC shop, chem & metallurgical engineers are paid way better when they work in there own field, and he could make alot more as he needs to only look at a part to know the origin of a problem AND he apparently has a gift in the customer service field as well, his un-informed opinion had an effect on a person intelligent enough on his own to obtain a level of income and comfort in his life to afford a very expensive motorcycle.
Sorry, but why

[kojak]

In a past life I was part of R&D on one of, if not the #1 synthetic. All this is crap, the engine builder spewing this stuff is, I am sure a chemical engineer and was able to, with his eyes only tell it was a oil situation that affected the engine?
He is wasting his skills in MC shop, chem & metallurgical engineers are paid way better when they work in there own field, and he could make alot more as he needs to only look at a part to know the origin of a problem AND he apparently has a gift in the customer service field as well, his un-informed opinion had an effect on a person intelligent enough on his own to obtain a level of income and comfort in his life to afford a very expensive motorcycle.
Sorry, but why

Unfortunately, people get a lot of garbage along with good advice not just on this forum. At least the OP had sense to ask.

[Ridgerunr]

Using synthetic in HD's for 200,000 miles, never had a bearing problem.

[grc]

I think, if this guy actually kept up with what goes on at Harley, he would realize that those lifter rollers were defective and that's what caused the scoring.  It was a fairly widely reported problem a few years back, actually.  And it had nothing to do with an oil failure, and everything to do with bad part quality. 

Go back and ask him for another supposed bit of proof.  The bearing skidding and the lifter and cam scoring are total BS, so what else has he got? 

Btw, just because someone puts a label on their oil and calls it "Racing" doesn't exactly mean anything.  Kind of like at the super market where they label all kinds of stuff as "organic" with no proof, or gluten free even though all similar products are naturally gluten free anyway.  And true racing products are rarely good for street machines, since they don't contain the same additives the street products do for longer term protection.  Real racing oil gets changed every race.

As I've said before, believe all the BS and hype you want, but if the major oil brands really caused all the damage people like this guy claims, they'd be out of business.  They actually do real scientific testing to industry standards, including wear tests that would definitely expose this so-called oil induced scoring of the cams and lifters.   Ask him to show his scientific testing to back up his claims.

Jerry