Topic: Wierd 110 motor failure (Read 5557 times)

ultrafxr · « **on:** November 20, 2007, 07:52:32 PM »

My 110 jester crapped out on me coming back home from the No Ga scouting trip. After I retreived it and trailered it back home Brian Rose got to it today and opened her up. Never would have expected this. The valve guide on the rear cyl exhaust valve dropped down from the head at least 1/16" or more preventing the exhaust valve from closing. And the intake nicked the edge of the exhaust valve and bent the intake.

Most unusual as far as I know and especially for only having 23k on the clock. All I can figure is just a material / assembly failure.

Doesn't seem to be related to the well known 110 problems, but Brian did tell (and show) me that the cyl liner is again shifting. You can feel it every so slightly proturding above the cyl itself.

If I have time I'll get by there and get some photos. Didn't have the camera with me this afternoon.

Unbalanced · « **Reply #1 on:** November 20, 2007, 07:55:49 PM »

Ultrafxr,

Want to see the cylinder shifts and figured if I didnt hit you with the worthless someone else would

Sorry to hear the continued problems,

ultrafxr · « **Reply #2 on:** November 20, 2007, 08:01:15 PM »

Quote from: Unbalanced on November 20, 2007, 07:55:49 PM

Ultrafxr,

Want to see the cylinder shifts and figured if I didnt hit you with the worthless someone else would

Sorry to hear the continued problems,

The shift is so slight I don't think a photo will show it but I'll try.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #3 on:** November 20, 2007, 08:29:40 PM »

Jerry, this isn't the first such incident among the group here. Thought I remembered more than the following citations but these were what I could find:

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=16830.0

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=16156.msg258915#msg258915

rednectum · « **Reply #4 on:** November 20, 2007, 08:49:03 PM »

where is djkak? he was looking for this info.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #5 on:** November 20, 2007, 08:52:06 PM »

Quote from: rednectum on November 20, 2007, 08:49:03 PM

where is djkak? he was looking for this info.

If he'd be interested in this thread and might accidentally miss it I'll PM him with a link here. He'll be sure and find it that way.

ultrafxr · « **Reply #6 on:** November 20, 2007, 09:19:41 PM »

Quote from: Twolanerider on November 20, 2007, 08:29:40 PM

Jerry, this isn't the first such incident among the group here. Thought I remembered more than the following citations but these were what I could find:

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=16830.0

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=16156.msg258915#msg258915

I missed those threads and was unaware of others having problem (and not all 110s either). Don't know if my guide is cracked - that might explain why it 'dropped.' Will investigate more. Damn shame in any case. Sould not happen. SM is going to ask for new motor and I sure hope we can get it.

Good news is bottom end looks OK. When Brian found the valve problem he pulled the cam chest to check everyting down there also. All looks real good including oil pump. So looks like my runout is OK or we'd see some signs of wear after 23k for sure.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #7 on:** November 20, 2007, 10:34:28 PM »

Quote from: ultrafxr on November 20, 2007, 09:19:41 PM

I missed those threads and was unaware of others having problem (and not all 110s either). Don't know if my guide is cracked - that might explain why it 'dropped.' Will investigate more. Damn shame in any case. Sould not happen. SM is going to ask for new motor and I sure hope we can get it.

Good news is bottom end looks OK. When Brian found the valve problem he pulled the cam chest to check everyting down there also. All looks real good including oil pump. So looks like my runout is OK or we'd see some signs of wear after 23k for sure.

Jerry, it sounds like a Hobson's choice. In your case I'd find it a hard decision rather to push for a new top end or a new engine.

You know (as well as you can) that your bottom end doesn't have crank problems. That's a big deal. You can't know a replacement won't. I don't think anyone knows yet if that issue is fully resolved from the factory.

It's easy to understand wanting either solution. A new top end on top of a known good bottom end, when so many bottom ends weren't. Or a new motor at 20k plus to have and to hold and start over again. My friend, I'm glad I'm not in your shoes on this one.

ultrafxr · « **Reply #8 on:** November 20, 2007, 10:46:24 PM »

Quote from: Twolanerider on November 20, 2007, 10:34:28 PM

Jerry, it sounds like a Hobson's choice. In your case I'd find it a hard decision rather to push for a new top end or a new engine.

You know (as well as you can) that your bottom end doesn't have crank problems. That's a big deal. You can't know a replacement won't. I don't think anyone knows yet if that issue is fully resolved from the factory.

It's easy to understand wanting either solution. A new top end on top of a known good bottom end, when so many bottom ends weren't. Or a new motor at 20k plus to have and to hold and start over again. My friend, I'm glad I'm not in your shoes on this one.

Yeah, I thought about that. Trying to convince myself it'll be OK if we just do the top end. But on the other hand I'd just like to start over fresh and all. Either way it's a crap shoot. Best wrench can still drop the ball on a rebuild and so of course can the factory on a new motor. We'll just be patient and let it sort itself out. Que Sera, Sera

Twolanerider · « **Reply #9 on:** November 20, 2007, 10:51:38 PM »

Will the SM be able to get an answer from God before the holiday? Or will you be wondering until next week sometime?

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #10 on:** November 21, 2007, 09:49:27 AM »

That is not as uncommon as you might think. The heads has a very loose fit on guides and valve seats. I have seen several that have been moving and a few that had dropped the intake seats out. hope the dealer gets back up and running asap. I know I would be bummed out about it.

rednectum · « **Reply #11 on:** November 21, 2007, 10:00:46 AM »

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on November 21, 2007, 09:49:27 AM

That is not as uncommon as you might think. The heads has a very loose fit on guides and valve seats. I have seen several that have been moving and a few that had dropped the intake seats out. hope the dealer gets back up and running asap. I know I would be bummed out about it.

is this always on the rear? maybe heat related?

nixobilly · « **Reply #12 on:** November 21, 2007, 10:36:46 AM »

Ultrafxr,

Like a lot of people here, I had my head gaskets replaced at 9.6k. Rear leak again while out on Nelson trip. After returning home they went in to redo both head gaskets again and found rear valve guide missing entirely (exhaust port) and replaced the head and put high tension head bolts in both heads. Now at 27k the rear is leaking again in addition to using 2 quarts of oil (seepage is very light, no noticeable smoke during operation but that oil is going somewhere!)

I'm meeting with Service Manager and HD rep next week to discuss options. I'll definitely request crank runout check. I'll probably push for top end swap out assuming the crank looks ok.

Good luck with yours

Mark

ultrafxr · « **Reply #13 on:** November 21, 2007, 12:01:02 PM »

Quote from: Twolanerider on November 20, 2007, 10:51:38 PM

Will the SM be able to get an answer from God before the holiday? Or will you be wondering until next week sometime?

SM left today for well deserved vacation with his family and won't be back until Monday. In conversation with him late yesterday he indicated that he wouldn't be able to reach anyone at the moco anyway. Probably best as they'll all come in Monday relaxed and refreshed and ready to make me happy. Did I really say that? Who am I kidding? This is the moco after all. Repeat the mantra: Gotta think positive. It'll be OK. Gotta think positive. It'll be OK.

ultrafxr · « **Reply #14 on:** November 21, 2007, 12:04:26 PM »

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on November 21, 2007, 09:49:27 AM

That is not as uncommon as you might think. The heads has a very loose fit on guides and valve seats. I have seen several that have been moving and a few that had dropped the intake seats out. hope the dealer gets back up and running asap. I know I would be bummed out about it.

Thanks for the info GMR. I thought those guides were a pretty tight fit in there. Like Dennis asked - is this heat related? From threads Don referenced it is not only a 110 issue. Is there a cure?

ultrafxr · « **Reply #15 on:** November 21, 2007, 12:06:59 PM »

One good thing is that while bike is down and awaiting resolution Brian is going to do the install of my Chubbys. Didn't get 'er done before No. Ga. because he didn't have time and just did the IDS. Gotta think positive. It'll be OK.

Hoist! · « **Reply #16 on:** November 21, 2007, 12:12:26 PM »

Hey Jerry, you just gotta think positive. It'll be OK!

Hoist!

Unbalanced · « **Reply #17 on:** November 21, 2007, 05:18:58 PM »

Jerry,

I think you should look at it from the worse possible case scenario anything from there is better and you can't be let down

but it will probably be ok

Eqcons · « **Reply #18 on:** November 23, 2007, 09:29:56 AM »

Quote from: ultrafxr on November 20, 2007, 07:52:32 PM

Most unusual as far as I know and especially for only having 23k on the clock.

Nope, not unusual! Regular readers may recall that this is exactly the fault mine developed (with 3k on the clock!) while 3000 miles from home, and was the straw that broke the camels back, making HD at last authorise a new engine. MoCo rep said he had seen a few of the 110s do it.

The fault doesn't suprise me one bit, since normal Twink heads have a circlip at the top of the guide to prevent them from dropping, whereas the Squealin' Beagle heads have no such circlip, which is plain crazy if you ask me!

Jim

ultrafxr · « **Reply #19 on:** November 23, 2007, 09:32:15 AM »

Quote from: Eqcons on November 23, 2007, 09:29:56 AM

Nope, not unusual! Regular readers may recall that this is exactly the fault mine developed (with 3k on the clock!) while 3000 miles from home, and was the straw that broke the camels back, making HD at last authorise a new engine. MoCo rep said he had seen a few of the 110s do it.

The fault doesn't suprise me one bit, since normal Twink heads have a circlip at the top of the guide to prevent them from dropping, whereas the Squealin' Beagle heads have no such circlip, which is plain crazy if you ask me!

Jim

Jim, I do recall your breakdown while on your trip in Spain (I think). Knew you got a new motor but did not recall the exact problem you had. Thanks for the heads up.

How is your new motor doing? Any better than the original? Any problems so far?

Eqcons · « **Reply #20 on:** November 23, 2007, 09:37:28 AM »

Quote from: Twolanerider on November 20, 2007, 08:29:40 PM

Jerry, this isn't the first such incident among the group here. Thought I remembered more than the following citations but these were what I could find:

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=16830.0

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=16156.msg258915#msg258915

You missed mine, Don:

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=14334.msg241724#msg241724

Eqcons · « **Reply #21 on:** November 23, 2007, 09:42:21 AM »

Quote from: ultrafxr on November 23, 2007, 09:32:15 AM

Jim, I do recall your breakdown while on your trip in Spain (I think). Knew you got a new motor but did not recall the exact problem you had. Thanks for the heads up.

How is your new motor doing? Any better than the original? Any problems so far?

Yup Spain - near enough within sight of Africa! So far so good - 3000 miles on the new motor, which has been almost trouble free - I had to replace the oil pressure switch (new with this motor since the one on the old motor was a dud too!) as it wasn't coming on till I started the engine. Added benefit was that the OP on this motor was always lower than the old one (and everybody else's 07!), and with the switch changed, I got an instant extra 10psi too!

No sign of the dreaded, yet, fingers crossed

but off the road for the winter now, so next Spring/Summer will tell.....

New motor is nicer than the old one - smoother, I guess.

Jim
,

Twolanerider · « **Reply #22 on:** November 23, 2007, 11:28:16 AM »

Quote from: Eqcons on November 23, 2007, 09:37:28 AM

You missed mine, Don:

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=14334.msg241724#msg241724

Sure did Jim. It's sad that there are so many engine failures and other remedial problems that, even in this small group, one could just never catch them all.

ultrafxr · « **Reply #23 on:** November 30, 2007, 04:01:43 PM »

Good news at last! Moco has authorized a new motor for my bike. Hopefully it will be here within a couple weeks and even more hopefully it will not have the myraid of problems my original one has had. Hope springs eternal like they say.

HogBreath · « **Reply #24 on:** November 30, 2007, 05:41:07 PM »

That's great news Jerry! I'm glad to see they took care of you like they should!

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #25 on:** November 30, 2007, 06:05:35 PM »

Well we repalce the guides when the welding and porting is done so the is no longer a issue. It is a issue with a fit that is not as tight as it should be , could be casting, guide OD or both??

The seats that we have seen come out only had .0015 fit,

should be in the .0025 range.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #26 on:** November 30, 2007, 07:35:38 PM »

Quote from: ultrafxr on November 30, 2007, 04:01:43 PM

Good news at last! Moco has authorized a new motor for my bike. Hopefully it will be here within a couple weeks and even more hopefully it will not have the myraid of problems my original one has had. Hope springs eternal like they say.

That is at least forward movement Jerry. Glad they stepped up and went the full boat since that seemed what you wanted most. Sure wish that we knew for a fact that movement was indeed progress though. Hopefully the new motor will be powerful and flawless. Will keep fingers and toes crossed for you

.

MJZ · « **Reply #27 on:** November 30, 2007, 07:36:38 PM »

Quote from: ultrafxr on November 30, 2007, 04:01:43 PM

Good news at last! Moco has authorized a new motor for my bike. Hopefully it will be here within a couple weeks and even more hopefully it will not have the myraid of problems my original one has had. Hope springs eternal like they say.

That is great news Jerry, I feel a whole lot more comfortable with a new motor and Rosey doing the work.

ultrafxr · « **Reply #28 on:** November 30, 2007, 07:53:47 PM »

Quote from: MJZ on November 30, 2007, 07:36:38 PM

That is great news Jerry, I feel a whole lot more comfortable with a new motor and Rosey doing the work.

Right you are Mr. Z.

Fired00d · « **Reply #29 on:** November 30, 2007, 08:02:58 PM »

Quote from: ultrafxr on November 30, 2007, 04:01:43 PM

Good news at last! Moco has authorized a new motor for my bike. Hopefully it will be here within a couple weeks and even more hopefully it will not have the myraid of problems my original one has had. Hope springs eternal like they say.

Jerry,
That's great news.

Glad to hear they are taking care of this for you.

Ride Safe,
Fired00d

Author Topic: Wierd 110 motor failure (Read 5557 times)