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[SDCVO]

So what would you buy then?

[Twolanerider]

So what would you buy then?

Don't know what TC.  Doing the math on the Road King project only re-emphasized that it's a lot cheaper to build one the way you want it once than it is to pull a bunch of crap and rebuild a stock bike to something approximating good or good enough.  So that kind of effort is an option.

It's not that I don't like what we ride.  I obviously do.  But the company lost me several years ago.  We have to do so much to make up for what they don't.  And the attitude is incredulous; so lame.  There's nothing about the Bar and Shield that I'd want to wear on my body or my sleeve and hasn't been for a long time.  No emotional connect to the modern rendering of the company.  I like to ride.  But as long as it's a competent bike that's not just butt ugly I just don't care.

Butt ugly is a relative measure of course.  Wings aren't attractive.  They are utilitarian though.  And they aren't just butt ugly.  I could climb on a wing and not give it much thought.  I personally "fit" better on a Wing than I do the BMWs too.  But my old bikes are good for now.  And the latest is a Twolane Custom and not a Harley; no matter what the badges say.

[tweeter13]

If I were going to by a v-twin sport bike for what I would be doing with it.  I am sorry I guess I have to eat crow.  Push comes to shove I would not by the v-rod.  I didnt like it when I rode it.  Just didnt feel right to me.  but one of the ducati's would most likely do it.   I havent seen one but the diavel sounds killer to me.  I am pretty sure its a 2 cylinder.  but i think is a L twin not a V.

[cvobiker]

The only thing keeping me in a Harley saddle, is loyality to the Harley brand. And I tell ya, after test ridding some of the new technology bikes coming from Honda and BMW, (my fav is the K1600 GTL) this loyality crap is about to dismiss. The money Harley is charging for their bikes compared to the Japanise and German bikes is ludercris.   I love my Harley's, but I honestly can say I don't depend on them..   Everytime I jump in the Harley saddle for a long trip there is always somthing I worry about.  I test rode a BMW K1600GTL over a 3 day weekend and the experience was completly 100% worry free and the handling and performace is superior to any Harley I've ridden.    I really don't blame these Police departments for jumping the fence to better motorcycles.. 

[twinotter]

  I have owned many brands over 45 yrs. The most fun to ride, my KZ650 Kawasaki. The scariest, the 83 Honda Magna 1100, damned thing didn't stop or turn, but gave 55mpg at 80mph and got to 140 real quick.
That said I have only owned one Harley Davidson, and it will be the ONLY one. Its an 01' Dyna, Its been thru several phases, modified to 93hp/98t, then supercharged to 125/125, and for the last 5 yrs, an S&S T124 at 126hp/133t resides in the frame. I have upgraded everything there is to upgrade to get it to the level of handling and power it is now.
The original 88TC was about as bullet proof as any motor made IMO,the new ones are nothing but cheapened junk, JMO. bikes that wobble brand new, cheapened parts from overseas to keep the shareholders rolling in dough. I don't think so.
 I'm 62, I don't expect to ever buy another bike, I am satisfied with what I have and still get excited to ride it every day I go out on the road. the Dyna easily get 45 mpg (US) 52.5 (IMP) at 70 mph.
Not one other manufacturer out there makes a bike that appeals to me, I don't want or need a bike that has to have a reverse so it can be backed up. No one my age would consider a Ducati for long range travel. Adventure style bikes you need a ladder to mount (what a joke), The newest BMW wonderbike, already reports of excessive oil comsumption, not for me. Tuneups that cost 10-20% of the original asking price?? Not for me!! Sportbikes that cost $500 for a service because it takes 4 hrs to get at the service parts, afraid not.
 My 01 Dyna is as close as HD ever got to the UNIVERSAL MOTORCYCLE, you sit upright, no extra doodads, a windshield and a pair of saddlebags take me anywhere. I'm leaving Aug 1st for another 8000 mile trip, I expect NO trouble, 500 miles a day,thats for me!! JMO FWIW twinotter

[dlaws01]

If I were going to by a v-twin sport bike for what I would be doing with it.  I am sorry I guess I have to eat crow.  Push comes to shove I would not by the v-rod.  I didnt like it when I rode it.  Just didnt feel right to me.  but one of the ducati's would most likely do it.   I havent seen one but the diavel sounds killer to me.  I am pretty sure its a 2 cylinder.  but i think is a L twin not a V.


I have looked at the Ducati Diavel Carbon and I like it.  Up right seating with a seat height of 30.3 . Optional seating for touring and another one that lowers seat height about an inch or so. It has the 1198cc, 11 degree L - twin that is water cooled. Same engine that is on the Multistrada. Reviews are fairly mixed when it comes to looks, people either love it or hate it. Only great reviews concerning performance and reliability.  My only issue with it is that there is an "idiot light" annunciator for oil changes and maintenance that can only be reset by the dealer. I like to do my own oil changes and the nearest Duc dealer to me is in Nashville, 250 miles away.  Service intervals for valve adjustments are 15k miles. Not bad.  Even with the idiot light issue, I'm about ready to sell my springer and buy the Diavel. Don't get me wrong, I've loved my H-D springer and get many compliments on it any where I go.  I'm just sick of the piss poor service departments at the two dealerships within my area and having to continually sink $$$ into a machine that is already overpriced.  You would think that for a bike that cost $26k you would get more than 15,000 miles on it before it starts to become a maintenance hog.  I love the H-D bike, still represents freedom and American ingenuity. I like thinking that buying one helped someone here have a job that he or she can be proud of. I just can't stand the company and their attitude of selling their product and not standing behind it. Once they have your money, you are pretty much on your own.  Most of us have demonstrated our "company loyalty" how about they demonstrate some "customer loyalty".  Sorry to vent like that but just had to get it off my mind.

[tazmun]

 About a year ago I attached an article from CHP as to why they switched to BMW's.
They showed the total cost of ownership of their HD's and the amount of time
the bikes were out of service. Then they compared the service records of both
the Honda and BMW to the HD's and boy I understood why they switched!

 They didn't have to compare speed, handling or anything else to justify the switch!

As for adding a bigger motor to the HD! It would only add MORE HEAT,
wouldn't change anything else! Just my 2 cents!

[SDCVO]

CHP just switched to Kawasaki

[grayghost731]

I dont know why MOST are  so pissed off? who cares what the cops ride. State troopers only patrol are express-ways,thats why they might need a little something more nimble and faster than a stock harley. Our city limit cops and sherrif's all drive HARLEYS   State troopers is a small % of bike cops in MICHIGAN                             



                                                                       I myself like the BRAND (HARLEY)

                                                                                     just my 2cents

What the switch comes down to is Money and maintence

[Midnight Rider]

With the Ducati, it weighs so little, in comparison, the seat height is less of an issue.  I had a Multistrada for a while and was on my tiptoes when stopped, but it was really never an issue, other than when I needed to back up.  But, you can just get off and grab the bars and put it where you want it.  I never do that with my Harley...always afraid it will go over the other way when I pick it up, and there's no stopping it past a certain point.

At  516lbs wet, the Diavel is light.  The new Multistrada S Touring is only 485lbs wet.  But, you either love that bike or hate it from the looks standpoint.  Personally, I like it, and if I could afford a second bike, I'd have one.

We older riders are used to, or enjoy tinkering and maintenance, and we tend to be more brand loyal.  Younger riders are used to just getting in something, or on something (car or bike) and just driving it.  Take it and have the oil changed and you're done.  And the car dealers I've dealt with in the past 15 years or so have pretty good customer service.  They're not going to be very tolerant of chitty dealership experiences and poor service, or be willing to spend an additional 5K or more to make the bike perform as it should.

If Harley would produce a Revolution engine in the 1500 CC range or bigger (how about a V4?) and stick it in a larger touring frame, I think they'd have something that would pull over some folks who ride other brands, like BMW and Honda.  IF they did the R&D to make it both reliable and comfortable for the majority.  The Vrod is a great bike, but it's not built for people over 6' tall, IMO.  The '06 SEVROD, in whatever color, was one of the most beautiful bikes I've ever seen.  And it was comfortable for me to ride 3-400 miles, but I'm short.

If HD continues down the path they are on...purely profit driven...they have a hard row to hoe ahead.  I don't know what it's going to take to wake them up before it's too late.

[tazmun]

With the Ducati, it weighs so little, in comparison, the seat height is less of an issue.  I had a Multistrada for a while and was on my tiptoes when stopped, but it was really never an issue, other than when I needed to back up.  But, you can just get off and grab the bars and put it where you want it.  I never do that with my Harley...always afraid it will go over the other way when I pick it up, and there's no stopping it past a certain point.

At  516lbs wet, the Diavel is light.  The new Multistrada S Touring is only 485lbs wet.  But, you either love that bike or hate it from the looks standpoint.  Personally, I like it, and if I could afford a second bike, I'd have one.

We older riders are used to, or enjoy tinkering and maintenance, and we tend to be more brand loyal.  Younger riders are used to just getting in something, or on something (car or bike) and just driving it.  Take it and have the oil changed and you're done.  And the car dealers I've dealt with in the past 15 years or so have pretty good customer service.  They're not going to be very tolerant of chitty dealership experiences and poor service, or be willing to spend an additional 5K or more to make the bike perform as it should.

TC, I TOTALLY AGREE, AND JUST LIKE EQUTRAC SAYS, IT WILL HAPPEN!

[grc]

HD has sold a lot of motorcycles to police forces across North America and this remains a big part of their sales strategy. HD chose to survive on the sales momentum of the last two decades. Unfortunately along came the great reccession of 2008. In effect Police departments are extentions of government. As more and more environmentalists are elected or appointed into government departments their influence has become more and more visable. Some would even argue that the EPA is now the real government. It appears to run everything from agriculture to oil to fisheries. So why should it be a surprise when influential bureaucrats spend tax dollars on what environmentalists within these agencies perceive as more environmentally friendly motorcycles. It appears the government has gone from protecting HD during the 1980's from it's competitors to driving nails in the MOCO's coffin. Don't be surprised if the MOCO is sold or restructured within the next three years. History does repeat itself.       

I've heard a lot of convoluted explanations and excuses for Harley's lousy quality, reliability, and customer service, but I've got to say this one really takes the cake.  Now the p-poor management at H-D has no responsibility for their lousy performance over the past few decades, because it's all the EPA's fault.  Yeah, right.

Perhaps if Harley hadn't been the recipient of all that favorable treatment by government since the 80's they would have had to modernize and join the rest of the folks in the current century.  All that really happened is they were handed the means to continue pawning off inferior products on the public while enriching the management and stockholders.  Well, as they say, the free ride is coming to an end.  With a new generation of potential customers who haven't been brainwashed by the Harley mystique, style over function, lifestyle over function, high prices over quality and reliability BS, even the EPA won't be able to save their bacon if they don't wake up pretty soon.

btw, if the EPA were really trying to hurt H-D, why do you suppose they keep looking the other way when Harley and it's franchised dealers sell all sorts of parts and devices meant to violate the emission regulations and laws?  IMHO, Harley is still receiving special treatment from governmental agencies.


Jerry

[bandit]

Why not modify a V-Rod or change to the Motus? 

[Midnight Rider]

Why not modify a V-Rod or change to the Motus? 

The problem with the Vrod is the frame...it's simply not large enough to easily accomodate two up touring.  The engine is not the issue.  If they mated two revolution engines together, then they'd have something, but only if they designed a larger frame around it.  And the Motus is after a different market at the moment, as it knows it cannot compete in the "cruiser" catagory.

The EPA is a regulatory agency, and while it is not 100% "right" sometimes, I shudder to think of how things would be in this country if we left it up to corporations to clean up their own act.  I can name dozens of cases of complete disregard for public safety while oil companies, paper companies, textile companies, steel mills, etc, etc, etc dumped toxic waste in order to avoid costly alternative practices, all in the name of unbridled greed.  China now faces, or will in the not too distant future, an environmental crisis, and their people will suffer the consequences of unregulated growth and all the long term problems that brings.  EPA rules and regulations are set forth YEARS in advance to give companies a reasonable amount of time to meet new standards.  It's odd to me that other manufacturers of bikes have met or exceeded those regulations, as have all the auto manufacturers, but Harley struggles for some reason.  Could it be piss poor management, profit at the expense of customer satisfaction, etc?  Remaining static in a changing world will make you extinct...embracing inevitable change and doing those things necessary to meet those changes will bring long term success instead of short term gains.

The EPA is not, and never has been, Harley's "enemy".  Harley's refusal to accept new realities is.  And yes, LEO agencies are exensions of local/state governments, so when the economy hits the chitter, they have to look at ways to save money, both short term and long term.  If it costs them 5 times more to keep a fleet of brand X on the road than it does brand Y, eventually they will choose to go with brand Y...and screw "tradition".  I'm about to turn 61 years old...I love my bike, but was fully aware of the things I'd have to do to make it a more pleasurable experience to ride, and had the means and willingness to make it so.  A 35 year old is not in the same mindset.  My riding days are numbered, as are a lot of who participate here.  The Boomers have driven what's happened in this country, both good and bad, but we are dying, and HD needs to take notice of that fact.

[bandit]

But as mentioned before, we are talking about legislation swapping to other brands,
so the V-Rod and the Motus are (my 2c) a possibility for the police. HD should have
shown them this possibility and why not looking at Motus, a young but american based
company, both fast enough and easier to handle than the older HD police-bike. The
same story happens again (MoCo didn't want to give Buell the V-Rod motor), they still
don't know, why and for whom they developed the V-Rod.

I fully agree with you, when we are talking about touring bikes, that's an absolute different
story.