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[cvo1717]

Another 117 build. GMR 600 cams and 88cc heads.

Close to mine too

[happyman]

Very similar to my build

curious what the headwork is looks pretty decent. yet believable numbers too.
Just has to be a lot of fun


 

[RoadDawg]

curious what the headwork is looks pretty decent. yet believable numbers too.
Just has to be a lot of fun

Here is a quote from the builder, Ward Performance, which was posted on another thread on this forum:

"In response to the thread suggesting we do not replace valve guides in order to cut costs or corners, please know that is not the case.  In fact, we do this for a specific reason.  In 2010 for a short period HD produced castings with 332M Markings on them. 332M is the alloy and heat treat. These particular heads are notorious for cracking around the valve guides. We have seen them cracked in untouched, stock form, and some crack while removing the valve guides, while others crack when installing the valve guides.

We have gone so far as to remove the guides by machining them out. This eliminates any pressure from pressing or pushing them out with an impact driver. During installation we also heat the head in an industrial oven, then submerse the guide in liquid nitrogen. At that point we are able to push the standard size guide in the head by hand, using no extra force.  However, we have still experienced occasional cracking with this method.
It got to the point where we wouldn’t even rework heads with the 332M markings on them. The heads marked 242 T5 were the only heads we would touch.

In 2014 HD released the Twin Cooled 110. These heads were once again marked 332M. Naturally we were very concerned we would see the same cracking issues. My feeling was the best option on these heads was to leave the stock valve guides in place and not risk having the heads crack. I created a CNC program to circular interpolate the valve guide, tapering it to the shape of the performance bronze valve guides we typically use. I then had to create a CNC porting program to port around the valve guides. Both of which took weeks to develop to get the finish and flow results we were looking for.
We can only use this approach on new heads or heads with low miles. Valve guides must have acceptable clearances or we are forced to replace them. I can assure everyone we did not go through all this extra work to cut corners or be cheap.

As far as larger valve sizes, we too offer larger valves for the 110 head. We have great results using the original 2.080” on the flow bench and the Dyno. We have experienced and also had feedback from other shops on 113” and 117” builds, with horsepower numbers in the upper 130’s and low 140’s using this CNC head package. Obviously Dyno numbers can vary greatly depending on the combination, Dyno and tuner."

[WYD OPN]

I'm thinking this 117" SE kit with domed pistons (for 10.6:1 CR) and headwork with larger intake valves flowing 335+cfm could yield 135-square hp/tq.

And still give 40mpg average and run on pump fuel everywhere in the USA.

[HD Street Performance]

Your thinking is right.
Old news..
We were making 125 sq SAE very easily at 110" with factory 259e cams at similar CR. These were done repeatedly on many dynos.
Do the math..
1.1-1.15hp / cu in is not hard to achieve for a twin cam and this is at streetable compression ratios with stock or better lifespan.

[happyman]

I'm thinking this 117" SE kit with domed pistons (for 10.6:1 CR) and headwork with larger intake valves flowing 335+cfm could yield 135-square hp/tq.

And still give 40mpg average and run on pump fuel everywhere in the USA.

Would anyone have the link to  Wards webpage?
Thanksw

[RoadDawg]

Would anyone have the link to  Wards webpage?
Thanksw

Here's a link directly from Vendor Discounts on this forum: http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=108521.0

[WYD OPN]

Your thinking is right.
Old news..
We were making 125 sq SAE very easily at 110" with factory 259e cams at similar CR. These were done repeatedly on many dynos.
Do the math..
1.1-1.15hp / cu in is not hard to achieve for a twin cam and this is at streetable compression ratios with stock or better lifespan.

Yes, but I've seen all kinds of combos and attempts that have been problematic, either while achieving those numbers or without even achieving them.  Too much compression; bad cam choices; cutting corners.

There are still a lot of techs out there who don't follow your basic guidelines for solid builds without problems.  Cherry-picking parts and pieces from sum-total builds seems to still be the status quo for many.

[Unbalanced]

Your thinking is right.
Old news..
We were making 125 sq SAE very easily at 110" with factory 259e cams at similar CR. These were done repeatedly on many dynos.
Do the math..
1.1-1.15hp / cu in is not hard to achieve for a twin cam and this is at streetable compression ratios with stock or better lifespan.

Dewey, I disagree with your post that 125/125 is easy to achieve.  You can prolly count on one hand the number of 110's with those kind of numbers or above.   125 squared or above is not quite so easy while maintaining streetability, acceptable street compression and heat from engine, and non pms temperament.    Just like one of the exiled past vendors said ohh 130 /130 walk in the park.   Its not on a 110 if it were many would still be going that direction vs. 113/117 except for the 117 allure of more and keeping the warranty.   120/120 is very doable but after that it aint so easy, and requires good headwork and combination of parts, as well as some compression and good tune.   Anyone thinking differently is in for a bit of a let down.   Again not saying you cant get there and that there aren't those doing it, but its not EASILY done or cheaply done unless you have friends with the dyno's that help the work shine.   Read that to be happy dyno, cool air pumped in, and any other dyno game tricks that can be applied.   Have a look all the 110 builds on the site you will see VERY few with square numbers at or above 125/125 and even some of your customers with less than the 125 square for whatever reason. 

[HD Street Performance]

Don is my name
I can think of two right off the bat that are close to identical builds done 3 years or so ago. Both are posters here, both were tuned in your neighborhood by Doc Weaver and one other from 5 years ago tuned by JDs, Dave Stoddard. There are many others. These were just guys coming in after a build off the street, no trickery. Your 124 I recall makes in the 1.3hp range and you ride it, not a dyno queen or fake anything? People always are quick to point out fake dynos when good numbers appear. Did it ever occur to folks the opposite happens? Calibration moves both ways from center. Plus an inertia dyno is a very inaccurate device just by design. No standards to adhere to other than what Dynojet has brewed up.
In my experience lack of expected power usually comes down to a motor of bad health, leak down and or oil consumption, bad tune, or incompatible pipe. Look at what they do from 5- 6200rpm, it tells a lot.
Another commercialy available kit from Zippers makes 150hp from a 110. Not an endorsement just a data point.

[HD Street Performance]

I recall GMR posting many collaborating dyno runs, fake?

[Unbalanced]

Don is my name
I can think of two right off the bat that are close to identical builds done 3 years or so ago. Both are posters here, both were tuned in your neighborhood by Doc Weaver and one other from 5 years ago tuned by JDs, Dave Stoddard. There are many others. These were just guys coming in after a build off the street, no trickery. Your 124 I recall makes in the 1.3hp range and you ride it, not a dyno queen or fake anything? People always are quick to point out fake dynos when good numbers appear. Did it ever occur to folks the opposite happens? Calibration moves both ways from center. Plus an inertia dyno is a very inaccurate device just by design. No standards to adhere to other than what Dynojet has brewed up.
In my experience lack of expected power usually comes down to a motor of bad health, leak down and or oil consumption, bad tune, or incompatible pipe. Look at what they do from 5- 6200rpm, it tells a lot.
Another commercialy available kit from Zippers makes 150hp from a 110. Not an endorsement just a data point.

Dewey,

I never said it wasn't possible I said its rare.   

My bike isn't a 110 nor is it run of the mill nor is it what I or most would consider street compression at 11.6 to 1 nor is it stock castings of the heads.  It is an expensive cash sink that is custom at almost every turn including what S&S did on their part of the build sheet and took several iterations to get to where it is.    Completely  apples and oranges and irrelevant here to the 110 discussion and yes I ride it all the time all over, but would never consider it for someone else looking for a touring bike as it has concerns I have to mitigate, like snapping belts if you get to heavy handed, wheel stands, spinning the tire at 50 mph etc.   As far as numbers go I run it with whoever wants to run their twin cams.    1 up 2 up we hit and go, just ask around the site some even call me out on the posting of the numbers which is their opinion thinking I am duping them.   I would never post low numbers just to mess with ole Hubbard what fun would that be.   Maybe its his numbers that are actually lower 

The Zippers extreme muscle isn't a run of the mill street build either it is 220 cranking with 680 lift cam with adjusted rockers making it a 730 lift cam.    A Confusing and mixing the 2 to try and make a data point where there is none beyond they started with a  110 build and went nuts.    Note above I said streetable compression, non pms.  You cant just put 87 or 89 or 91 fuel in there without having issues.    93/94 octane is what that is going to take, ohh wait with a thundermax you don't have knock retard so guess you hope for the best or to find a good tuner that can detune it for the gas you run when not in an area that doesn't have it.   Do that and whats the point of spending the money for a 5200 kit that you have to be aware of.   To me that is not a streetable upgrade.   For a little more you get a complete S&S 124 at 10.25 to 1 compression and it makes you smile.

Again with all the bikes on this site posted you wont find but a couple of bikes at 125/125 and the ones you do have generally spent big big money ...  Ask 110 Thunder what it took to bullet proof his and get 125/126 doubt many will go that far and that was TMan.   You bring up the ones you rattled off, how bout Jessies 116 HP bike with your headwork if it were that easy why didn't he make 125 / 125 you did all this 3 years ago his wasn't all that long ago and within that window.

ohh well beating a dead horse, buyer beware of numbers without guarantees is all I can say.    120/120 is a reasonable goal that you should be able to get to or close, beyond that its a crapshoot.   

I honestly hope everyone gets there, but too many variables and too few have the results to say its easy.

As another data point GMR's own build done in house by him his tuning going from 110 to 113  makes the torque has all the bells and whistles and still doesn't make 125 hp.  Easy to get to the 125/125 not thinking so.

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=103314.msg1332843#msg1332843

[Unbalanced]

Time to fire up the GPS and see what time it is...

Or you could just get her stretched out and Harry could pull up alongside and tell you how fast you're going

Ed,

I guess I could slow down and wait for him and let Ole Hub know     Better yet I will just have Pete slow down a little bit and let him know.   

[ImBroke]

That is a real nice torque curve with the 259E on that build Don.  Did you do head work on the heads?

Although Don never actually said this was his build, he never said he didn't so I will give credit where credit is due.  This is my bike, I posted the sheet on HTT and Don posted it here.

Bike was built and tuned by Nathan at Capitol HD

[SneakyPete]

Ed,

I guess I could slow down and wait for him and let Ole Hub know     Better yet I will just have Pete slow down a little bit and let him know.