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[jesse111]

The Project...
2010 Ultra CVO

The Goal...
1) Increase low and mid torque as well as HP.
2) Produce an everyday driver and touring power curve.
3) Moderate increase in exhaust sound.
4) Cooler temps
5) Better mileage

Going to install:
1) X-Pipe (B)
2) 2" cores
3) TTS
4) SE Ventilator

The Fullsac approach seems reasonable and logical to me. Steve took a lot of time explaining and educating this novice on performance parts implementation. I do not have any experience with other tuning hardware or software but the TTS system seems to me to be the most comprehensive and reliable approach based on my research. I will be ordering the necessary hardware and software in the next few days. I'll post my opinion of every aspect along the way. As for my opinion of how things have gone so far, I give Steve 10 out of 10 stars. I fully expect his gear to perform as he says and really look forward to the installation.

Stay "tuned"...

[Talon]

Yea, check out their street dyno! 

[HOGMIKE]

The Project...
2010 Ultra CVO

The Goal...
1) Increase low and mid torque as well as HP. YES
2) Produce an everyday driver and touring power curve. YES
3) Moderate increase in exhaust sound. DEPENDS WHAT YOU THINK IS "MODERATE"!
4) Cooler temps YES
5) Better mileage MAYBE

Going to install:
1) X-Pipe
2) 2" cores
3) TTS

The Fullsac approach seems reasonable and logical to me. Steve took a lot of time explaining and educating this novice on performance parts implementation. I do not have any experience with other tuning hardware or software but the TTS system seems to me to be the most comprehensive and reliable approach based on my research. I will be ordering the necessary hardware and software in the next few days. I'll post my opinion of every aspect along the way. As for my opinion of how things have gone so far, I give Steve 10 out of 10 stars. I fully expect his gear to perform as he says and really look forward to the installation.

Stay "tuned"...

 

[jesse111]

I've added the SE Ventilator to the install #4.

[Mr. Wizard]

I've added the SE Ventilator to the install #4.

Jesse...  don't you already have the SE Ventilator?

[RedDevil]

Jesse...  don't you already have the SE Ventilator?

The SEUC doesn't come standard with the Ventilator...you have to change out the restrictive stock AC that comes with it.  There is a restrictor plate on the rear of the SEUC AC.

[Mr. Wizard]

The SEUC doesn't come standard with the Ventilator...you have to change out the restrictive stock AC that comes with it.  There is a restrictor plate on the rear of the SEUC AC.

How strange...  thanks RD, live and learn.

[guppytrash]

jesse111

Good move!  I have an 09 with the SERT and local HD shop dyno tune, the 1.75 Fulsac cores, Arlen Ness big sucker and removed the entire cat myself.  The only part of this I am not 100% satisfied with is the quality of the dyno tune.  My bike still runs hot.  If you search on here I have not heard of one Fulsac customer that was not entirely satisfied with there TTS maps from Steve.  I will eventually just eat the cost of my SERT and use a TTS so I can use the Fulsac maps.  I am thinking the stage 2.
You are going the direction I wish I would have gone from the start. 

 

[tlr]

jesse111

.  I will eventually just eat the cost of my SERT and use a TTS so I can use the Fulsac maps.  I am thinking the stage 2.
 

I did the same.  Went with the SSERT.  was not happy with tume either and bike still ran very hot. So...ate the cost and purchased the TTS from Steve at Fullsac. Install was a breeze.  Hopefully temps will come down.

[jesse111]

Parts have been ordered and will arrive tomorrow 3/24/10. I will post my observation of packing and general opinion of quality. Installation will begin in the next few days.

[Mr. Wizard]

Tweaked my TTS map, 1.75 baffles and X-pipe (no cam yet)

Rode 260 miles this past Saturday, blew the pegs off the other bikes when we hit the hwy...  still got 43.3 mpg.

I think you will like it just fine Jesse.

Note: Be sure not to over tighten the front clamp for the X heat shield too much. The clamp retainer is welded to a flat spot on the stock shield and if you get it too tight it will indent your shield. Back clamp is no issue. The stock shield is just thin and doesn't take much to muck it up.

[jesse111]

Thanks for the tip on the clamp Wiz. I saw that you had mentioned that in another thread as well. I surely would have over tightened it without that advice. This is an excellent example of why we're all here on the CVO forum.

[JDOFLHRIDER]

on my 07 had different tunes and pipes (S.E.Pro tunner ,t-max  slip on's ,d-d fat cats )it ran a lil cooler, oil temps looked real good just never lost heat so on the new bike cams will be changed to get rid of heat.

[2harleys]

I have the Fullsac X-pipe with 2 inch cores, Fullsac tips, SERT, SEAC, and have no heat issues and bike runs very well. Mileage is in low to mid 40s on most every tank. Tried the cat removal method at first, but had an odd sound to me. Very satisfied  Steve is the man!

[scotr]

Steve George is the man. He delivers on what he promises and i can't stay off of my scooter since i did the upgrades.

Scotr

[jesse111]

Parts arrived today safe and sound. Product looks excellent. Installation will begin tomorrow 3/25/10.

[jesse111]

Headers installed as well as screaming eagle ventilator. Headers fit perfect.
Tomorrow 10/26/10 will install the cores and flash the ECM to finish it up.

I must say, taking off that heavy bloated cat header had a certain feeling of relief and I haven't even ran the engine yet.

[Mr. Wizard]

Before flashing, be sure to save your factory map. A reminder will pop up the first time you enter the program.

Once you flash the new map in it will be too late.

[jesse111]

All parts installed except the cores. Original ECM map backed up and Fullsac map installed.

Everything fit well. However, there is a gasket that no one mentions located at the crossover pipe that runs underneath the bike. The Fullsac header is slightly smaller than the HD stock so the connection is loose without a new gasket installation even with the clamp fully tightened. Neither Fullsac or Harley parts rep mentioned the possibility of replacing that gasket. I'd advise doing so.

The front header comes very close to the rear brake assembly so be sure to pull the pipe out away from the bike as much as possible before and also hold it out while tightening the main support bolt near the rear of the right foot board.

Other than those two relatively minor points, the Fullsac gear is a breeze to install.

I just finished but unfortunately I have to leave for an appointment so a test drive will have to wait till tomorrow. But I can tell you this, the throttle response and "the animal" that I can feel and hear in this engine is quite different than before the install. She speaks with real authority.

As mentioned, I have not installed the cores yet so I'm continuing to use my HD-SE mufflers from my 2007 Road King. The difference in sound between the stock headers and cat are a world away from the X-Pipe with the same SE mufflers. It has so much more bite and sounds like what you'd expect from a Harley. There will be no doubt that a Harley is coming around the bend when you hear this Fullsac gear on a 110.

So until the maiden voyage tomorrow... stay tuned.

[jesse111]

Took her out for the test ride. Did about a hundred miles or so. Here is my opinion.

The increase in power is immediately noticeable. To be honest, I was expecting some improvement but I was not expecting this much. The power increase is just incredible. The bike runs smoother, stronger, faster in every way. Interestingly, take-offs are smoother as well. I'm not sure why that is but the power to the back wheel and all through out the drive train just seems more synergetic... seamless. The whole bike has more of a quality ride to it.

Merging on to the interstate from 50 to 90mph was like never before. The power seemed endless. No resistance, no effort. It was as if that 110 wanted to just burn up the highway. It was beautiful.

The difference is so significant that it's as if the Fullsac gear has "fixed" the bike. I am now of the opinion that the stock 110 is in a state of "broken" from the factory. Perhaps it’s necessary for emissions and so forth. But it’s a shame the factory 110 is restricted so severely from the factory. Don’t get me wrong, even stock the engine is a powerhouse. But the Fullsac kit has provided me with such a convincing performance improvement that I would not consider having a CVO without it.

The power gain to cost ratio is a no brainer. If you can do the install yourself like I did, it just doesn’t make sense not to in my humble opinion.

For all you stock engine riders, I can tell you first hand that you are missing a great deal of what your engine can do if you stay with the stock map, intake and exhaust. The power hiding in your 110 is incredible when you get the right combination of gear to bring it out. I have no doubt that other manufacturers offer very good results as well, but I chose Fullsac based on all my research. I am very pleased with the results and would do the exact same thing again.

No dyno's to post but I can tell you one thing with all confidence, the seat of the pants power improvement is spectacular.

While I went in to this project with an objective attitude, I am now a convinced proponent of Fullsac power kits.

Incidentally, I've discovered that the stock air cleaner is pitifully constructed. The way it is designed it acts like a megaphone for engine intake noise. I always wondered why that thing sounded so loud. I just figured the 110 was sucking such huge amounts of air that it was going to be something I'd have to live with. After installing the Ventilator intake, that annoying thumping drone sound is gone. I can't here it at all. The bike sounds great, runs great and I am just thrilled with the results.

[easyrider9809]

Glad to hear about your results !!  You had to have a huge smile with the first twist of the throttle !!.  Was it pretty simple to install the TTS software and download the Fullsac map ??

[Mr. Wizard]

So, Jessie... tell us how you really feel.     

The installation of the TTS and the flashing of the map is very easy. All you need is a computer, the rest is a cake walk. Just do what it says.

[jesse111]

Glad to hear about your results !!  You had to have a huge smile with the first twist of the throttle !!.  Was it pretty simple to install the TTS software and download the Fullsac map ??

Easyrider, yes I did have a smile on my face with that first twist and it stayed there all day. Wizard is correct. Don't let any concerns about installing the flash map hold you back. I can walk you through it if you have any trouble. Steve at Fulllsac most certainly would too. Follow the instructions closely and you'll find it only involves about 4 steps from installation on your computer to completion of download.

[jarica]

All parts installed except the cores. Original ECM map backed up and Fullsac map installed.

Everything fit well. However, there is a gasket that no one mentions located at the crossover pipe that runs underneath the bike. The Fullsac header is slightly smaller than the HD stock so the connection is loose without a new gasket installation even with the clamp fully tightened. Neither Fullsac or Harley parts rep mentioned the possibility of replacing that gasket. I'd advise doing so.

The front header comes very close to the rear brake assembly so be sure to pull the pipe out away from the bike as much as possible before and also hold it out while tightening the main support bolt near the rear of the right foot board.

Other than those two relatively minor points, the Fullsac gear is a breeze to install.

I just finished but unfortunately I have to leave for an appointment so a test drive will have to wait till tomorrow. But I can tell you this, the throttle response and "the animal" that I can feel and hear in this engine is quite different than before the install. She speaks with real authority.

As mentioned, I have not installed the cores yet so I'm continuing to use my HD-SE mufflers from my 2007 Road King. The difference in sound between the stock headers and cat are a world away from the X-Pipe with the same SE mufflers. It has so much more bite and sounds like what you'd expect from a Harley. There will be no doubt that a Harley is coming around the bend when you hear this Fullsac gear on a 110.

So until the maiden voyage tomorrow... stay tuned.

Thanks for all of the excellent information on your Fullsac implementation.  Can you provide the spec on the gasket that you replaced by the crossover pipe?

Rick

[jesse111]

I have no actual specs and I didn't ask for the part number as regards the gasket but it fits inside the actual crossover piece that runs under the bike. It is the same metal fiber type construction as the header gaskets that mount at the exhaust port. The gasket is located inside the end of the crossover pipe that attaches to the Fullsac header on the right side of the bike. Not on the left. In the picture in the Harley parts book it actually looks like a small piece of pipe because the gasket is about an inch or so long.

[jarica]

I have no actual specs and I didn't ask for the part number as regards the gasket but it fits inside the actual crossover piece that runs under the bike. It is the same metal fiber type construction as the header gaskets that mount at the exhaust port. The gasket is located inside the end of the crossover pipe that attaches to the Fullsac header on the right side of the bike. Not on the left. In the picture in the Harley parts book it actually looks like a small piece of pipe because the gasket is about an inch or so long.

Thank you, Jesse!  I will check with the Harley parts book for the gasket.  I plan to do the same implementation: X-Pipe (B), 2" core baffle and TTS.  My Harley dealer recommended the SE Pro Super tuner and a dyno after the install.  I'll try the TTS route first.  If I'm satisfied with that, forget the dyno. The 2010 Street Glide comes with an SE Ventilator, so I'm good on that one.

Rick 

[jarica]

Took her out for the test ride. Did about a hundred miles or so. Here is my opinion.

The increase in power is immediately noticeable. To be honest, I was expecting some improvement but I was not expecting this much. The power increase is just incredible. The bike runs smoother, stronger, faster in every way. Interestingly, take-offs are smoother as well. I'm not sure why that is but the power to the back wheel and all through out the drive train just seems more synergetic... seamless. The whole bike has more of a quality ride to it.

Merging on to the interstate from 50 to 90mph was like never before. The power seemed endless. No resistance, no effort. It was as if that 110 wanted to just burn up the highway. It was beautiful.

The difference is so significant that it's as if the Fullsac gear has "fixed" the bike. I am now of the opinion that the stock 110 is in a state of "broken" from the factory. Perhaps it’s necessary for emissions and so forth. But it’s a shame the factory 110 is restricted so severely from the factory. Don’t get me wrong, even stock the engine is a powerhouse. But the Fullsac kit has provided me with such a convincing performance improvement that I would not consider having a CVO without it.

The power gain to cost ratio is a no brainer. If you can do the install yourself like I did, it just doesn’t make sense not to in my humble opinion.

For all you stock engine riders, I can tell you first hand that you are missing a great deal of what your engine can do if you stay with the stock map, intake and exhaust. The power hiding in your 110 is incredible when you get the right combination of gear to bring it out. I have no doubt that other manufacturers offer very good results as well, but I chose Fullsac based on all my research. I am very pleased with the results and would do the exact same thing again.

No dyno's to post but I can tell you one thing with all confidence, the seat of the pants power improvement is spectacular.

While I went in to this project with an objective attitude, I am now a convinced proponent of Fullsac power kits.

Incidentally, I've discovered that the stock air cleaner is pitifully constructed. The way it is designed it acts like a megaphone for engine intake noise. I always wondered why that thing sounded so loud. I just figured the 110 was sucking such huge amounts of air that it was going to be something I'd have to live with. After installing the Ventilator intake, that annoying thumping drone sound is gone. I can't here it at all. The bike sounds great, runs great and I am just thrilled with the results.

Did you keep the HD stock baffle packing when you installed the 2" Fullsac baffles? 

Rick

[Crusty]

I've got the x pipe, 2" baffles, and tuner in a box in my garage... stoked to get it installed!

[jesse111]

Did you keep the HD stock baffle packing when you installed the 2" Fullsac baffles?  

Rick

Rick, I have not yet installed the baffle cores in the stock CVO mufflers. That is the one thing I have not done yet. I am using HD Screaming Eagle mufflers that I had on hand from 2007. They are working extremely well and sound surprisingly good. I will however be installing the Fullsac cores in the stock mufflers shortly and replacing the SE mufflers that are on my bike right now. I will probably try them without any packing first. If it's too loud then I will make a change.

As a side note, I don't really expect much, if any performance difference between the SE mufflers and the Fullsac cores. Both are high flow design. It may take a dyno to show a difference. But if I gain another few horse or a foot pound or two of torque well then so be it.

[jesse111]

Thank you, Jesse!  I will check with the Harley parts book for the gasket.  I plan to do the same implementation: X-Pipe (B), 2" core baffle and TTS.  My Harley dealer recommended the SE Pro Super tuner and a dyno after the install.  I'll try the TTS route first.  If I'm satisfied with that, forget the dyno. The 2010 Street Glide comes with an SE Ventilator, so I'm good on that one.

Rick  

It sounds to me you will be installing the same gear I did. I suppose it depends on how far a fella wants to go. If you install the Super Tuner, will you still be using the Fullsac map? If not, I would not suggest it unless Steve at Fullsac does. He would be the man to discuss that with.

As for me, I wanted to get the cat out of the way and let the engine breath and perform like it was meant to do. I have no desire to add or pay for any further modifications to get a diminished return on power. Harley dealers do a lot of recommending when it comes to their own gear but unless he could guarantee a significant increase in power I personally wouldn't mess with the Fullsac kit. Even if there was a power increase, wether or not it would run as good overall is questionable. Fullsac has tested and dynoed the stock ECM and their gear. I doubt they've done it all with the SE tuner. It could be a waste of money but I am purely speculating so I could be dead wrong about that. Steve is the source for info to contact.

On my bike, the Fullsac kit is working perfect. I feel like I've gained at least 20 hp and 20 fp of torque. I wasn't expecting that much so I'm going to leave it alone and just enjoy kicking asphalt. I want a reliable, fast, powerful bike. That is what I've got now. I'm not a gear head. I like to ride.

Look forward to hearing what you decide to do.

[jesse111]

I've got the x pipe, 2" baffles, and tuner in a box in my garage... stoked to get it installed!

Set aside 1 full day or 2 half days and get busy. 

[jarica]

Rick, I have not yet installed the baffle cores in the stock CVO mufflers. That is the one thing I have not done yet. I am using HD Screaming Eagle mufflers that I had on hand from 2007. They are working extremely well and sound surprisingly good. I will however be installing the Fullsac cores in the stock mufflers shortly and replacing the SE mufflers that are on my bike right now. I will probably try them without any packing first. If it's too loud then I will make a change.

As a side note, I don't really expect much, if any performance difference between the SE mufflers and the Fullsac cores. Both are high flow design. It may take a dyno to show a difference. But if I gain another few horse or a foot pound or two of torque well then so be it.

I'll probably setup the Fullsac x-pipe with the stock 2010 CVO SG baffles before grinding out welds and drilling holes.  If the stock baffles and x-pipe don't produce a decent rumble, then I'll install Fullac's 2" baffles.

Rick

[jesse111]

Completed the 2" core install. Here is my opinion.

The install is not that bad. Just give yourself a few hours and don't rush it.

I tried them first without any damping material. I found them to be way too loud for the sound I"m going for.

Next, I installed the baffle material from the stock pipes. This improved the sound greatly in my opinion. The tone got deeper and sounded more controlled. However, it is still slightly too loud for the sound I want.

No doubt many find the sound to be exactly what their looking for but exhaust tone and loudness has got to be one of the most individual preference issues there is.

So, I will be looking for something just slightly more quiet than these.

[CVOStreetglide]

Headers installed as well as screaming eagle ventilator. Headers fit perfect.
Tomorrow 10/26/10 will install the cores and flash the ECM to finish it up.

I must say, taking off that heavy bloated cat header had a certain feeling of relief and I haven't even ran the engine yet.

Jessie:

I'm curious what replaces the squashed pipe that goes under the frame to the left side of the bike when you install the "X" pipe?

I am procrasinating about doing this mod with mine.

Also did you use new header pipe gaskets? Which one?

Regards

[jesse111]

Jessie:

I'm curious what replaces the squashed pipe that goes under the frame to the left side of the bike when you install the "X" pipe?

I am procrasinating about doing this mod with mine.

Also did you use new header pipe gaskets? Which one?

Regards

CVO,

Nothing replaces the flat crossover connector that runs underneath. You simply use it again. However, inside of it where it connects to the X-pipe is a gasket that I chose to replace.

Yes, I did replace the head pipe gaskets and purchased the expensive stock gaskets. The dealer may recommend there thinner gaskets for aftermarket headers but I used the thick stock gaskets. They're excellent quality and work perfect.

[Sea Biscuit]

Jessie,

You've done all the work, so how about the 1.75" baffles from Fullsac...supposedly a little quieter that the 2" baffle...talk to Steve at Fullsac and he may be willing to take your 2" baffles back?? Worth a phone call.

[jesse111]

Jessie,

You've done all the work, so how about the 1.75" baffles from Fullsac...supposedly a little quieter that the 2" baffle...talk to Steve at Fullsac and he may be willing to take your 2" baffles back?? Worth a phone call.

That is exactly what I did. Steve is very supportive of his customers and product. He is sending me a set of 1.75 to try out. You gotta love it when a manufacturer really tries to see things from the customer stand point.

[Crusty]

Completed the 2" core install. Here is my opinion.

The install is not that bad. Just give yourself a few hours and don't rush it.

I tried them first without any damping material. I found them to be way too loud for the sound I"m going for.

Next, I installed the baffle material from the stock pipes. This improved the sound greatly in my opinion. The tone got deeper and sounded more controlled. However, it is still slightly too loud for the sound I want.

No doubt many find the sound to be exactly what their looking for but exhaust tone and loudness has got to be one of the most individual preference issues there is.

So, I will be looking for something just slightly more quiet than these.

Thanks for the feedback... I will tell the shop doing my bike to use the stock dampening material.

Will being a rookie HD guy I am interested to hear how they sound... hope it isn't too loud!  Will definitely post my feedback and put the word out to anyone semi-local who wants to hear them in person so they can make the call for themselves.

[Sea Biscuit]

That is exactly what I did. Steve is very supportive of his customers and product. He is sending me a set of 1.75 to try out. You gotta love it when a manufacturer really tries to see things from the customer stand point.

Like the title says..."It's all about Fullsac"!!

[jarica]

Completed the 2" core install. Here is my opinion.

The install is not that bad. Just give yourself a few hours and don't rush it.

I tried them first without any damping material. I found them to be way too loud for the sound I"m going for.

Next, I installed the baffle material from the stock pipes. This improved the sound greatly in my opinion. The tone got deeper and sounded more controlled. However, it is still slightly too loud for the sound I want.

No doubt many find the sound to be exactly what their looking for but exhaust tone and loudness has got to be one of the most individual preference issues there is.

So, I will be looking for something just slightly more quiet than these.

It will be interesting to hear about your solution to volume and tone.  A friend of mine has a 2006 RG with Fullsac's 1.75" baffles and prefers those, after trying the 2" cores.  The sound aspect is subjective, however.  I want to be able to hear the music when I'm riding on a highway or around town. 

I noticed that you're in Rocky Point, NC.  My hometown is Elizabeth City, NC.

Cheers, Rick   

[jesse111]

It will be interesting to hear about your solution to volume and tone.  A friend of mine has a 2006 RG with Fullsac's 1.75" baffles and prefers those, after trying the 2" cores.  The sound aspect is subjective, however.  I want to be able to hear the music when I'm riding on a highway or around town. 

I noticed that you're in Rocky Point, NC.  My hometown is Elizabeth City, NC.

Cheers, Rick   

Rick, I'm going to find some quality packing material and pack the 1.75's to quite them down as much as possible. It will be a few days I'm sure before Steve gets them to me but stay tuned because I think this is a vital part of the total Fullsac kit that needs plenty of discussion.

Depending on the results, I will either stay with the cores or look at something like the Bub Stealth. Either way, I'm still thoroughly enjoying and perfectly satisfied with the performance gains of this kit - with or without the cores.

[Boatman]

That is exactly what I did. Steve is very supportive of his customers and product. He is sending me a set of 1.75 to try out. You gotta love it when a manufacturer really tries to see things from the customer stand point.

Steve is a great guy and knows what customer service is all about.  The 1.75" baffles are too loud for me-hopefully for you they are just right.

I am using the stock mufflers and they do get louder with miles.  They will never have any throaty ness at idle, but are loud enough otherwise.

Even with Steve's TTS map and decatted headpipe, I believe by the seat of the pance, between idle and 4,000 rpm's, the stock mufflers are just as good power wise. (what I use)

[jarica]

Rick, I'm going to find some quality packing material and pack the 1.75's to quite them down as much as possible. It will be a few days I'm sure before Steve gets them to me but stay tuned because I think this is a vital part of the total Fullsac kit that needs plenty of discussion.

Depending on the results, I will either stay with the cores or look at something like the Bub Stealth. Either way, I'm still thoroughly enjoying and perfectly satisfied with the performance gains of this kit - with or without the cores.

Well see how the stocks baffles work after I get the x-pipe and install it.  Also, I've decided to dyno my bike after putting some more miles on it.  DOC 1 has some good info about a dyno tune, and CVORick seems pretty happy with his dyno.  In any event, it's personal preference. 

Rick

[CVOStreetglide]

CVO,

Nothing replaces the flat crossover connector that runs underneath. You simply use it again. However, inside of it where it connects to the X-pipe is a gasket that I chose to replace.

Yes, I did replace the head pipe gaskets and purchased the expensive stock gaskets. The dealer may recommend there thinner gaskets for aftermarket headers but I used the thick stock gaskets. They're excellent quality and work perfect.

That pipe under the frame would seem to be a real "Choke point" in the whole performance project...at least for me.  I wonder if Steve will/would make a replacement pipe. 

Thanks for your insght!!

Regards

[jesse111]

I've thought about that as well but there might be a good reason for it. Is it possible that the design of that apparent choke point might be factored in on the total performance of the exhaust?

In other words, by allowing more exhaust to pass under to the left side muffler, could that perhaps actually reduce the performance of the crossover header design?

That would probably take some dyno testing to prove or disprove I'm sure.

[Crusty]

I want to be able to hear the music when I'm riding on a highway or around town. 

Cheers, Rick   

That's why I got the Hawg Wired 300W amp & 4 speakers in addition to my Fullsac. 

[jarica]

Jessie:

I'm curious what replaces the squashed pipe that goes under the frame to the left side of the bike when you install the "X" pipe?

I am procrasinating about doing this mod with mine.

Also did you use new header pipe gaskets? Which one?

Regards

The main reason that I'm going to install Fullsac's x-pipe is to get the bike breathing and reduce the heat.  My bike has gone into engine idle temperature management mode 7 or 8 times in 65-70 degree weather during the 3 weeks that I've had the bike.  The cat has to go!  I expect some performance gain, but that isn't my goal with the Fullsac kit.

Rick

[frankshd]

can someone tell me about this fullsac mastertune, will it and can i adjust the fly by wire with it to get the lag out of it and make throttle 1 to 1 thanks loking at this one or se one

[HOGMIKE]

can someone tell me about this fullsac mastertune, will it and can i adjust the fly by wire with it to get the lag out of it and make throttle 1 to 1 thanks loking at this one or se one

Give Steve a call, get the straight scoop:

Steve George
Owner Fullsac Performance
www.fullsac.com
928-505-2912

[US.Army.Retired]

can someone tell me about this fullsac mastertune, will it and can i adjust the fly by wire with it to get the lag out of it and make throttle 1 to 1 thanks loking at this one or se one

I installed the TTS Master Tune with Steve's Map and the throttle response is 1000% better. Get the TTS first and save your money on the other tuners!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  

[Fullsac Performance]

I've thought about that as well but there might be a good reason for it. Is it possible that the design of that apparent choke point might be factored in on the total performance of the exhaust?

In other words, by allowing more exhaust to pass under to the left side muffler, could that perhaps actually reduce the performance of the crossover header design?

That would probably take some dyno testing to prove or disprove I'm sure.

Hi Guys!

That squashed pipe was one of the first things I replaced with a nice round one and dynoed. Zero gain. The stocker flows all the small 90 deg bend can flow.

Jesse, Your 1.75s are going out today.

Done a lot of testing with packing material. So has Harley. The stock layer against the outer wall in CVO mufflers is very effective in smoothing and reducing
the overall sound level. As a kid I put shag carpet and egg crates on the walls of the garage so we could crank the guitars and play the drums with out the
neighbors calling the cops. As an adult, my dyno room has got the same treatment is an effort to absorb as much sound as possible at the source.
Works the same with out the all pot smoke. Wrapping the cores themselfs will actualy restrict the sound waves from entering the can and reduce the
overall volume of the can, increasing the sound level until the material burns away. Wich it will do in a short period of time when exposed to the high temps
of the core itself. I hope this info helps to keep sound levels down.

If you need to refurbish your stock packing, The E bay link earlier in this thread is very high quality packing material at a fair price. 
http://shop.ebay.com/ndangels/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25
Just purchased and used some myself to test. Good stuff! I'm attempting to source it and stock it. Anybody know the actual manufacture? Please PM me.

Thanks everyone for your continued support.
Steve George
Fullsac Performance

[jarica]

Hi Guys!

That squashed pipe was one of the first things I replaced with a nice round one and dynoed. Zero gain. The stocker flows all the small 90 deg bend can flow.

Jesse, Your 1.75s are going out today.

Done a lot of testing with packing material. So has Harley. The stock layer against the outer wall in CVO mufflers is very effective in smoothing and reducing
the overall sound level. As a kid I put shag carpet and egg crates on the walls of the garage so we could crank the guitars and play the drums with out the
neighbors calling the cops. As an adult, my dyno room has got the same treatment is an effort to absorb as much sound as possible at the source.
Works the same with out the all pot smoke. Wrapping the cores themselfs will actualy restrict the sound waves from entering the can and reduce the
overall volume of the can, increasing the sound level until the material burns away. Wich it will do in a short period of time when exposed to the high temps
of the core itself. I hope this info helps to keep sound levels down.

If you need to refurbish your stock packing, The E bay link earlier in this thread is very high quality packing material at a fair price. 
http://shop.ebay.com/ndangels/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25
Just purchased and used some myself to test. Good stuff! I'm attempting to source it and stock it. Anybody know the actual manufacture? Please PM me.

Thanks everyone for your continued support.
Steve George
Fullsac Performance

One of the best sources for ceramic exhaust wraps is McMaster-Carr at www.mcmaster.com.  Here's a link to p. 3481 of their online catalog.  Some of these wraps are rated for 2300 degree heat.  Should do the trick! 

Rick

[jesse111]

I've been researching all day on muffler packing material and my findings brought me to ceramic fiber as well. After and exhaustive search I found that Unifrax makes Fiberfrax S Durablanket which looks to me to be a superior product over other ceramic fibers.

Here's a good source for info (click on link and open the PDF file). http://www.unifrax.com/prodinfo.nsf/LookupByFormNo/C-1421/$File/Form%20C-1421Blanket%20%26%20Mat%2012-08.pdf

I decided to make a purchase from these folks. http://www.infraredheaters.com/insulati.htm#Secure%20Online%20Credit%20Card%20Ordering%20-%20SSL%20Encryption

You have to buy a minimum of 12 square feet but the price is less than 50 bucks including shipping.

Operating temp of 2150 and melting point of 3200 F. So the the temperatures will not be an issue. I'm curious how this product will hold up under the vibration but only time will tell. Should arrive the same time the 1.75 cores do.

I'll install as soon as everything arrives and share my opinion.

[jarica]

I've been researching all day on muffler packing material and my findings brought me to ceramic fiber as well. After and exhaustive search I found that Thermal Products Company makes Fiberfax S Durablanket which looks to me to be a superior product over other ceramic fibers.http://thermalproductsco.thomasnet.com/viewitems/thermal-products-fiberfrax-blankets/durablanket-s?

I decided to make a purchase from these folks. http://www.morelectricheating.com/default.aspx?page=home

You have to buy a minimum of 12 square feet but the price is less than 50 bucks including shipping.

Operating temp of 2150 and melting point of 3200 F. So the the temperatures will not be an issue. I'm curious how this product will hold up under the vibration but only time will tell. Should arrive the same time the 1.75 cores do.

I'll install as soon as everything arrives and share my opinion.

Nice work, Jesse.  I look forward to hearing about your results.

Rick

[charles05663]

I've been researching all day on muffler packing material and my findings brought me to ceramic fiber as well. After and exhaustive search I found that Unifrax makes Fiberfrax S Durablanket which looks to me to be a superior product over other ceramic fibers.

Here's a good source for info (click on link and open the PDF file). http://www.unifrax.com/prodinfo.nsf/LookupByFormNo/C-1421/$File/Form%20C-1421Blanket%20%26%20Mat%2012-08.pdf

I decided to make a purchase from these folks. http://www.infraredheaters.com/insulati.htm#Secure%20Online%20Credit%20Card%20Ordering%20-%20SSL%20Encryption

You have to buy a minimum of 12 square feet but the price is less than 50 bucks including shipping.

Operating temp of 2150 and melting point of 3200 F. So the the temperatures will not be an issue. I'm curious how this product will hold up under the vibration but only time will tell. Should arrive the same time the 1.75 cores do.

I'll install as soon as everything arrives and share my opinion.

I bought the same on Monday.  The blanket is 48" tall by 36" wide by 1" thick.  I saw some on eBay that are 24" tall and twice as much.  When comparing the cost of the material plus shipping from eBay vs. www.morelectricheating.com (aka www.infraredheaters.com) you get twice as much for the same price.  The only downside with the 48" tall blanket is that it will have to be cut.  From my estimates, a 4" can will need about 13" of material (4" x 3.14).

Charles

[jesse111]

I bought the same on Monday.
Charles

The price seemed reasonable to me too. Now you've confirmed that with your ebay search and comparison.

They sent mine out yesterday so it should be here with the cores beginning to middle of next week.

I hope this works out for the both of us. I can't foresee any negative side effects but we'll see. With two of us using it we can get a pretty good idea of how it will work.

I'm going to try and wrap only the stock screen first thus leaving much of the can open for sound refraction such as Steve suggested (basically like stock). After that I'm going to go ahead and wrap the entire can from the baffle to the inside of the muffler wall completely full of fiber.

I will post my results of both packing arrangements.

[dep47]

I have been looking at this modification also, but have a concern about the noise.  I like the quiet stock pipes, but would like to remove the cat and increase the performance.  Have you tried just running the stock pipes?  I will be interested to see how you think the sound level with the new cores, and packing compares to the stock mufflers.

[jesse111]

I like the quiet stock pipes, but would like to remove the cat and increase the performance.

I can appreciate what you are trying to do. Personally, the stock pipes have a certain tone to them that I don't really care for. Right now I'm running 07 RK stock pipes that sound very good to me. They were designed with different baffles for right and left and seem to perform very well. I know they are more restrictive than any aftermarket muffler but they have and excellent tone and rumble with Fullsac gear. I've seen them on ebay and you can get them cheap if interested. I'm trying to get a freer flowing exhaust but it's very challenging when you like it on the quiet side like we do.

However, adding Fullsac to your stock pipes will increase the sound level but in my opinion, it will in no way be too loud. Getting that cat out is very important in my opinion and finding the right exhaust is just a matter of time.

[Boatman]

I have been looking at this modification also, but have a concern about the noise.  I like the quiet stock pipes, but would like to remove the cat and increase the performance.  Have you tried just running the stock pipes?  I will be interested to see how you think the sound level with the new cores, and packing compares to the stock mufflers.

I am running the stock mufflers/baffles, decatted stock headpipe, and Fullsac's TTS map and am happy with the sound.  The stock mufflers get a little louder with miles-now at 2500..

I did not like the increased sound of the 1.75" baffles.

[lvse110se5]

I have the 2010 cvo ultra and because I live in Las Vegas, I was able to take my bike down to Steve's place in Havasu City and he set it up. I Believe that mine was the first 2010 that he had done. I had the cat removed, 1.75 baffles, andrews 54 cams, cometic head gaskets, SE Ventilator, TTS Master Tune and then he dialed it in on the dyno. It is a pure pleasure to ride, with incredible power, torque and it does not run hot. The noise issue I can relate to. I had the Rhinehart Duals on my 03 and got tired of the noise, even with hawg wired installed. I have changed the speakers to the hog tunes, but even with the stockers I was able to listen to the radio at less than half volume, while cruising at 70 or 80. Thanks CVO site for the info, Fullsac rocks!

[49445CVO]

Not to Hi Jack but had anyone ever broke down the Fullsac line for us?

for example:

If you are running true duals and want to do the Fullsac core, your options are ?,?,?,? and at the 1.75 inch you can expect  this gain and this sound as compaired to stock. Then with the 2 inch you can expect.... and so on.

Just a thought

[jarica]

Not to Hi Jack but had anyone ever broke down the Fullsac line for us?

for example:

If you are running true duals and want to do the Fullsac core, your options are ?,?,?,? and at the 1.75 inch you can expect  this gain and this sound as compaired to stock. Then with the 2 inch you can expect.... and so on.

Just a thought

The way I look at it, eveyone's bike is unique.  Even the same x-pipe, baffles etc setup on the same model, year and engine build can result in different performance.  Perhaps there are some ranges that can be expected, given different configurations on the same model, year and engine build.  I believe that Steve George at Fullsac has posted some dyno charts as examples. 

Rick

[49445CVO]

The way I look at it, eveyone's bike is unique.  Even the same x-pipe, baffles etc setup on the same model, year and engine build can result in different performance.  Perhaps there are some ranges that can be expected, given different configurations on the same model, year and engine build.  I believe that Steve George at Fullsac has posted some dyno charts as examples. 

Rick

I understand... I guess I was looking for a little input as to how to choose the right one for what you are looking to achieve.

I myself am looking to a gain in HP as anyone would, but I don't want anything that will blow out windows with noise.

[HOGMIKE]

I understand... I guess I was looking for a little input as to how to choose the right one for what you are looking to achieve.

I myself am looking to a gain in HP as anyone would, but I don't want anything that will blow out windows with noise.

Go to the source, he will answer any questions, and won't steer  you wrong:


Steve George
Owner Fullsac Performance
www.fullsac.com
928-505-2912

[dep47]

Do I read the installation information on the TTS tuner that you disconnect the o2 sensors?

[FL54]

I  would say negative.

[rheiner]

I don't see the x-pipe on the fullsac web site. What's the price?

[FL54]

For CVO members $431 plus shipping.

[rheiner]

I haven't seen any data here, but is there a difference in H.P. and torque, all other things equal, between the x-pipe & the stock pipe with the cat completely removed on a SEUC5?

[CVOStreetglide]

For CVO members $431 plus shipping.

Do you happen to know what the total package price is for members i/e "X" pipe, TTI Master tune, cable, gaskets--etc?

Regards

[FL54]

Don't hold me to this Streetglide because the x pipe was on backorder when I ordered it so I got the baffles, tts software, and cables in one shipment and the x pipe in another.  I think it broke down like this:
Baffles  109
TTS      379
Cables    69
X pipe   431
I live in Oregon and shipping on the first was $20 and the x pipe was thirty.  All in $1038.  Steve included gaskets with the x pipe but I reused my originals with no problems.
Hope that helps.

[FUNGOUL]

2010 SESG stock dyno

will be installing "B" X-Pipe TTS,(with Steve's tune) SE Heavy Breather A/C Black (just looks cool to me) and my Reinhardt's from my SERK
then I'll Dyno again April 17th. I have 2" baffles from Steve also but i like it loud!

[North Star]

I haven't seen any data here, but is there a difference in H.P. and torque, all other things equal, between the x-pipe & the stock pipe with the cat completely removed on a SEUC5?

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=45715.0

[GtreetSlide]

Just a note that may be helpful or not. I have an 09 SG that had the stage II 103 kit installed at the dealer. They removed the stock 48 state mufflers and replaced them with CAT mufflers. So, I took the stock 96 muffs and sent them to fullsac where they got 2" cores. I'm not sure if the pipe connection is different on the 110 CVO or not, but the 2"cores in the stock 96 mufflers are not loud at all. They are just a little more sound than stock. They run great since I used Fullsacs 110 map and adjusted it for my 103. Smooth, fast, great mpg, and just enough sound to hear above road noise without choking out my stereo.

jb

[CVORick]

Look at the lower left hand corner of the "Reply" screen.  See "Attach: Choose File"  You can attach a photo from your computer for sharing with your reply.

[CVOStreetglide]

Don't hold me to this Streetglide because the x pipe was on backorder when I ordered it so I got the baffles, tts software, and cables in one shipment and the x pipe in another.  I think it broke down like this:
Baffles  109
TTS      379
Cables    69
X pipe   431
I live in Oregon and shipping on the first was $20 and the x pipe was thirty.  All in $1038.  Steve included gaskets with the x pipe but I reused my originals with no problems.
Hope that helps.

Thanks very much. Yes it does help.

I am running Reinharts and will use the rest of Steve's package with them.

Regards

[jarica]

I understand... I guess I was looking for a little input as to how to choose the right one for what you are looking to achieve.

I myself am looking to a gain in HP as anyone would, but I don't want anything that will blow out windows with noise.

I ordered the 2" bafles, x-pipe (b) and TTS Mastertune from Fullsac for a stock 2010 CVO Street Glide.   Everything should be installed next week.  After I get a dyno tune, I will post the results.

Rick

[FUNGOUL]

2010 SESG stock dyno

will be installing "B" X-Pipe TTS,(with Steve's tune) SE Heavy Breather A/C Black (just looks cool to me) and my Reinhardt's from my SERK
then I'll Dyno again April 17th. I have 2" baffles from Steve also but i like it loud!

Just finished the install (x-pipe came today) THANKS STEVE
fit like a dream haven't done the baffles used my reinhardt's
Very loud when throttle is cracked VERY peppy feels like
the front end can lift off the ground in 1st and 2nd (awesome)
just keeps pulling and pulling i really like the bike now
yes at cruising speed i can hear the radio but i hardly ever turn it on
i was on the fence about the SESG i really liked my SERK but now
the SESG acts just like if not better than the SERK.
2007 SERK true dual reinhardt and a canned super sert tune
2010 SERG Fullsac "B" X- Pipe Steve's tune and reinhardt's will dyno and post the results

[dep47]

I sure like the idea of making the changes, but what does this do to the warranty on the bike?

[jarica]

I sure like the idea of making the changes, but what does this do to the warranty on the bike?

My HD dealer is going to install the X-Pipe (B), 2" core baffles and TTS.  The 2-year HD warranty is not effected, according to the dealer.  As far as the parts (i.e. x-pipe and 2" baffles), they will honor only the 3rd-party warranty on those parts.

Rick

[Boatman]

My HD dealer is going to install the X-Pipe (B), 2" core baffles and TTS.  The 2-year HD warranty is not effected, according to the dealer.  As far as the parts (i.e. x-pipe and 2" baffles), they will honor only the 3rd-party warranty on those parts.

Rick

You have a good dealer as most dealers around here will only install parts purchased from them.

Regarding the warranty, hope I don't need it but our bikes will like the changes (cooler).

[jarica]

You have a good dealer as most dealers around here will only install parts purchased from them.

Regarding the warranty, hope I don't need it but our bikes will like the changes (cooler).

I have a great HD dealer.  They are customer focused and have excellent mechanics.
We'll see how the installation goes.

Rick

[jesse111]

The Fiberfrax S Durablanket and 1.75 cores arrived yesterday. I will be installing them today. I will try two different installs as noted in my previous post.

I've removed the sound dampening glass pack and also the very hard wrapping material that Harley uses as the first layer over their baffle screen.

That hard layer seems to me to be more of a sound reflector than a sound dampener.

The first test will be using the Fiberfrax S Durablanket over the protective screen which will leave an open space between the baffle and the packing.

The second test will be to full pack the entire muffler from the baffle core to the muffler wall.

Results will be posted later today.

Stay "tuned".

[HOGMIKE]

The Fiberfrax S Durablanket and 1.75 cores arrived yesterday. I will be installing them today. I will try two different installs as noted in my previous post.

I've removed the sound dampening glass pack and also the very hard wrapping material that Harley uses as the first layer over their baffle screen.

That hard layer seems to me to be more of a sound reflector than a sound dampener.

The first test will be using the Fiberfrax S Durablanket over the protective screen which will leave an open space between the baffle and the packing.

The second test will be to full pack the entire muffler from the baffle core to the muffler wall.

Results will be posted later today.

Stay "tuned".

It will be interesting to see your results.
I have tried various combos also, and found that if you use the packing against the inside shell, then the screen, small air gap, then the baffle it seems to be the quietest.
Wish I could make a drawing.
 

[jesse111]

I installed the 1.75 with the packing. I did not use the screen thus the packing was in direct contact with the baffle.

It was more quiet than with no packing that is for sure. Would it be even more quiet if I used the screen therefore creating a small empty space between the baffle and packing? I don't know but I tend to think it would since others make the claim.

But I am going to cut my experimenting short right here. I've decided that the actual tone of the Fullsac baffle is not quite to my liking. I always like the Rinehart sound but it's too loud. I think I'm going to give those Bub Stealth mufflers a try. I doubt they'll perform as well as the Fullsac but it's all personal preference.

I now have two pairs of baffles. Since I only paid for one pair I will need to send back one pair to Fullsac since they were kind enough to let me try both 1.75 and 2.0.

If anyone would like a pair of 1.75 or 2.0 please send me a P.M and we can talk. I'll consider any offer and of course go with the best one. Which ever one sells, the other will be returned.

[jarica]

I installed the 1.75 with the packing. I did not use the screen thus the packing was in direct contact with the baffle.

It was more quiet than with no packing that is for sure. Would it be even more quiet if I used the screen therefore creating a small empty space between the baffle and packing? I don't know but I tend to think it would since others make the claim.

But I am going to cut my experimenting short right here. I've decided that the actual tone of the Fullsac baffle is not quite to my liking. I always like the Rinehart sound but it's too loud. I think I'm going to give those Bub Stealth mufflers a try. I doubt they'll perform as well as the Fullsac but it's all personal preference.

I now have two pairs of baffles. Since I only paid for one pair I will need to send back one pair to Fullsac since they were kind enough to let me try both 1.75 and 2.0.

If anyone would like a pair of 1.75 or 2.0 please send me a P.M and we can talk. I'll consider any offer and of course go with the best one. Which ever one sells, the other will be returned.

Thanks for the update.  The Bub Stealth mufflers look great; and I've heard that they sound very good, too.

Rick

[jesse111]

Thanks for the update.  The Bub Stealth mufflers look great; and I've heard that they sound very good, too.

Rick

I wish the fullsac would have worked out for me but I know others find them just perfect. In the end, I think they're just a bit too loud for me. I can't believe that at one time I ran drag pipes on my wideglide and loved it. Oh how times have changed.

I actually have placed an order for the Jackpot Dyno Tuned mufflers. They also offer a quiet baffle insert if need be so I have an option to further quite it down if need be. I like the left and right specific muffler design also.

I'm looking forward to hearing them and I'm sure with the Fullsac gear they might even add a bit more power.

[jarica]

I wish the fullsac would have worked out for me but I know others find them just perfect. In the end, I think they're just a bit too loud for me. I can't believe that at one time I ran drag pipes on my wideglide and loved it. Oh how times have changed.

I actually have placed an order for the Jackpot Dyno Tuned mufflers. They also offer a quiet baffle insert if need be so I have an option to further quite it down if need be. I like the left and right specific muffler design also.

I'm looking forward to hearing them and I'm sure with the Fullsac gear they might even add a bit more power.

There might be a good muffler guy in your area who can help you get the sound that you like with the baffles and packing.

Rick 

[lvse110se5]

You will have to re-tune with whatever pipes you decide on right?

[jarica]

You will have to re-tune with whatever pipes you decide on right?

It's a good practice to recalibrate the EFI after you have a high-flow AC and performance pipes.
In my case, once the exhaust system locked in (i.e. 2" baffles and x-pipe), I'm going to do
a dyno tune, rather than use the v-tune feature of TTS.  A dyno tune is the best way to optimize
in my opinion.

rick

[Jerry/MD]

Hey jesse, how about heat reduction? That's my MAIN goal with any mod right now.

[jesse111]

You will have to re-tune with whatever pipes you decide on right?

Mufflers are not as critical as the intake and certainly not as critical as removing the cat with a new head pipe like the X-pipe. As long as no issues arise, I personally will not worry about a re-tune from changing mufflers. Especially since they are a high flow design like the Fullsac baffles. Fullsac tunes should work just fine with any high flow muffler.

But if you wanted to cross every T and dot every I, a dyno is the way to go.

[jesse111]

Hey jesse, how about heat reduction? That's my MAIN goal with any mod right now.

I've been watching the heat issue very closely. I don't have any way to measure degrees but what I am doing is comparing how often the over heat protection cycle kicks in now vs. before the install. So far it has not kicked in even once. But more time is required. It's getting warmer out and I'll be doing some city driving soon and see how she does at street lights and such.

But as for now, it does in fact appear that temps have decreased.

[Jerry/MD]

I've been watching the heat issue very closely. I don't have any way to measure degrees but what I am doing is comparing how often the over heat protection cycle kicks in now vs. before the install. So far it has not kicked in even once. But more time is required. It's getting warmer out and I'll be doing some city driving soon and see how she does at street lights and such.

But as for now, it does in fact appear that temps have decreased.

Thanks. I bought this bike in December and finally got to experience the wonderful 110 heat on my right calf this week. Truly amazing! Now I understand why so many CVO owners change the exhaust.

I'm gonna call Steve tomorrow. Like you, I don't want something too loud. My passenger...who I've been married to for 28 years would let me know...

[jarica]

I just finished the Fullsac installation (2" baffles, x-pipe (b) and Steve's fuel map for the 2010 CVO).  This is a different bike!  Much better response.  I can feel the torque, and the throttle response has really improved.   The sound of the 2" baffles is perfect for me - not too loud, but still has that Harley rumble.  I didn't use the stock packing and screen.  The tech at the HD dealer had a big smile on his face after he test rode it.  THANK YOU, STEVE!! - AND THE MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM. 

Rick
Dallas, Texas

[Mr. Wizard]

Hey Rick...  congrats!!

Now get your VE tables synchronized and wake it up even more!   

[FUNGOUL]

2010 SESG stock dyno

will be installing "B" X-Pipe TTS,(with Steve's tune) SE Heavy Breather A/C Black (just looks cool to me) and my Reinhardt's from my SERK
then I'll Dyno again April 17th. I have 2" baffles from Steve also but i like it loud!

Dyno today couldn't wait till next sat.

[catahoula58]

I just finished the Fullsac installation (2" baffles, x-pipe (b) and Steve's fuel map for the 2010 CVO).  This is a different bike!  Much better response.  I can feel the torque, and the throttle response has really improved.   The sound of the 2" baffles is perfect for me - not too loud, but still has that Harley rumble.  I didn't use the stock packing and screen.  The tech at the HD dealer had a big smile on his face after he test rode it.  THANK YOU, STEVE!! - AND THE MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM. 

Rick
Dallas, Texas

Hey Rick Did you have the dealer install your baffles andx the new head pipes?   Which dealer in Dallas did you go to? And did he do the TTS master tune also?   Thx in advance!

[Fullsac Performance]

I just finished the Fullsac installation (2" baffles, x-pipe (b) and Steve's fuel map for the 2010 CVO).  This is a different bike!  Much better response.  I can feel the torque, and the throttle response has really improved.   The sound of the 2" baffles is perfect for me - not too loud, but still has that Harley rumble.  I didn't use the stock packing and screen.  The tech at the HD dealer had a big smile on his face after he test rode it.  THANK YOU, STEVE!! - AND THE MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM. 

Rick
Dallas, Texas

Thanks Rick!
Glad your happy. Its always a good sign when the HD tech has a smile on his face.

Steve George

[jarica]

Hey Rick Did you have the dealer install your baffles andx the new head pipes?   Which dealer in Dallas did you go to? And did he do the TTS master tune also?   Thx in advance!

My HD dealer installed Fullsac's 2" core baffles and the X-pipe (B) for my 2010 CVO Street Glide.
I brought my computer with the TTS Mastertune software loaded, updated and the USB drivers installed.
After the baffles and header x-pipe were installed, I saved the factory configuration and uploaded Steve's TTS fuel map - with the HD tech supervising the original factory config save and the fuel map upload. I wanted the tech involved because Fullsac has an outstanding performance exhaust system that could benefit other customers.

The HD dealer that I use is Harley-Davidson of North Texas in Carrollton.  The tech's name is Tom.  Tom is very careful and does excellent work. Everything fits perfectly.  So far. I've had no EITMS rear cylinder issues today in traffic (a big change on heat equation) and the torque on this machine is awesome.  I can't believe how the bike performs now.  Also, I'm glad that I got the 2" baffles.  My riding group buddies like the sound of the pipes; plus, there is a torque benefit. 

Steve has cranked out a very nice setup.

Rick

Rick 

Rick 

[jarica]

Hey Rick...  congrats!!

Now get your VE tables synchronized and wake it up even more!   

A dyno is my next step.

Rick

[jesse111]

Hey Rick...  congrats!!

Now get your VE tables synchronized and wake it up even more!  

Curious, how is it that you sync the VE tables?

[jarica]

Curious, how is it that you sync the VE tables?

I prefer the term 'optimization'.  In my opinion, the best way to optimize the VE tables and AFR is with a dyno tune. You can ride around and record data with V-Tune or Smart Tune and tweak the tables, but I don't see how you would ever reach the level of optimization that is possible with a dyno tune. Even Steve's fuel maps are based on a dyno optimization. A good canned map, based on dyno runs on another bike, may be good enough - especially if it's difficult to find a good dyno operator. 

Rick

Rick 

[Opossum]

Put the X pipe, 1.75's and SEAC on,  just got back from The Dyno Differance here in Dallas (Ed, you're the MAN) She now clocks 93 hp @5036 rpm's & 117 ft lbs @2748 rpm's, seems like my new scooter just got newer!  Steve, you're stuff is the real deal.  Thanks!

[FL54]

If you feel that you can't get good results from the V tune, why would you buy the TTS software in the first place?  Why wouldn't you just upload Steve's map and have it dyno'd.  Be curious to hear other opinions.

[Opossum]

If you feel that you can't get good results from the V tune, why would you buy the TTS software in the first place?  Why wouldn't you just upload Steve's map and have it dyno'd.  Be curious to hear other opinions.

I didn't buy Vtune, TTS, or Steve's map.  Ed @The Dyno Difference uses the maps from a base run on the Dyno as well as his "spreadsheet maps", then the magic begins...the end result is front and rear cylinders, injectors and sensors are all matched and custom mapped for MY bike.  And the results speak for them self.  As a friend of ours says and has been proven Ed is the "Harley Whisperer".  That's what I think anyways!
Mike

[FL54]

I was responding more to Jarica's post of yesterday.

[jarica]

If you feel that you can't get good results from the V tune, why would you buy the TTS software in the first place?  Why wouldn't you just upload Steve's map and have it dyno'd.  Be curious to hear other opinions.

If you decided to do a dyno tune, using one of Steve's fuel maps as a base map, how would you upload it into
the the ECM without the TTS Mastertune software?

Rick

[HOGMIKE]

I didn't buy Vtune, TTS, or Steve's map.  Ed @The Dyno Difference uses the maps from a base run on the Dyno as well as his "spreadsheet maps", then the magic begins...the end result is front and rear cylinders, injectors and sensors are all matched and custom mapped for MY bike.  And the results speak for them self.  As a friend of ours says and has been proven Ed is the "Harley Whisperer".  That's what I think anyways!
Mike

I'm just curious what Ed uses to dyno tune. It's my understanding that there are a lot of programs out there that can tune.
Anyway, looks like you have good power and torque with what he did. Wish we had tuners of that caliber around here!

 

[FL54]

It would seem to me that you would either spend the money on a dyno to tune your bike or you would spend the money on the TTS software and do it yourself.  No offense, just curious.
While I would agree that a dyno would tune the bike in a greater range, the v tunes probably do an adequate job in the range that you typically ride.

[KODAGRIN]

Don't you still need something like the TTS to be able to make changes when using a dyno?  The dyno just gives you the readings, then you make changes to try to improve the readings.....

[HOGMIKE]

Don't you still need something like the TTS to be able to make changes when using a dyno?  The dyno just gives you the readings, then you make changes to try to improve the readings.....

Short answer: "Something"? YES
Think of the older bikes on a dyno, you changed spark advance curves and carb jets, right?
The new bikes with all the electronics have options to change fuel and spark, and a whole lot more.

[FL54]

The issues raised on this thread have created another question.
I installed the 1.75" Fullsac baffles and X pipe, downloaded Steve's map for the 110 and made 3 v tune runs.
My bike runs well but given the weather in my part of the world, I haven't been able to even burn one tank of fuel since the modifications.
It seems that some members here feel that to get the most out of the bike, a dyno is still necessary.
1.  Is this the general consensus?
2.  How much would one expect to pay?
The local dealer has one but I don't know what the skill level of the techs are.

[HOGMIKE]

The issues raised on this thread have created another question.
I installed the 1.75" Fullsac baffles and X pipe, downloaded Steve's map for the 110 and made 3 v tune runs.
My bike runs well but given the weather in my part of the world, I haven't been able to even burn one tank of fuel since the modifications.
It seems that some members here feel that to get the most out of the bike, a dyno is still necessary.
1.  Is this the general consensus?
2.  How much would one expect to pay?
The local dealer has one but I don't know what the skill level of the techs are.

A bunch of questions for you after reading this post.
You need to ask  yourself if you want/need your engine to run at 100% UNDER EVERY CONDITION.
Sometimes you have to make compromises to get the best fuel mileage, power, torque, heat managements, etc, etc to where you ride 90% of the time.

I had my bike dyno'd to 100%, after 6 hrs. on the rack, and I STILL changed some of the values to suit my riding style.
I ran my V-tune after the dyno runs, just to see if I was close, yep! Of course I missed some cells on the ends that you would see on the dyno.
BUT, if I can't get those values when I ride, do I really need them? What effect to my "missed" cells have on my riding.

Ask yourself how you ride, for myself I'm after good manners, no surprises, good mileage.
I have that.
Don't get trapped in spending countless hours (read $$$) chasing that last 2 HP that you will probably never miss.
To each his own.
This is, of course, MHO.........AND NO disrespect to all you great tuners out there.

[FL54]

Thanks Hogmike.  I appreciate your input.  I'm of the same mindset as you.  What do you consider good gas mileage?  As I said before, the weather hasn't cooperated for me in logging any significant miles.  Mr. Wizard informed me that the ECM will continue to make minor adjustments.  How many miles do you figure you would have to log before you could say that's as good mileage as I'm going to get on this tune?
Thanks in advance.

[HOGMIKE]

Thanks Hogmike.  I appreciate your input.  I'm of the same mindset as you.  What do you consider good gas mileage?  As I said before, the weather hasn't cooperated for me in logging any significant miles.  Mr. Wizard informed me that the ECM will continue to make minor adjustments.  How many miles do you figure you would have to log before you could say that's as good mileage as I'm going to get on this tune?
Thanks in advance.

I get ABOUT 32-40 on the big motor, and about 38-45 on the 103"
I'm not that worried about mileage, unless it's way out of range. A lot depends on your riding style and many other factors.
My 96" was getting about 30-40 on the open roads, two-up, pulling a 400lb trailer!
My bikes run great, all I gotta do is keep my hands off of them!
 

[FL54]

Roger that.  I haven't yet burned a tank of fuel but the mileage reserve indicates I should get around 36 MPG.  Good enough?

[HOGMIKE]

Roger that.  I haven't yet burned a tank of fuel but the mileage reserve indicates I should get around 36 MPG.  Good enough?

Key word: AROUND
Answer: yep!
 

[FL54]

Thanks Mike.

[jesse111]

I decided to go with Doc's performance Tuning. He's without question a professional tuner. He was one of the Beta testers for the TTS mastertune so he knows the system inside and out. Talking with Doc only takes a few minutes to discern he knows what he's doing.

Fullsac no doubt would tune some serious power but I just don't have the time to travel to the California line from the East coast.  Steve's map produced some serious power but the pesky decel pop is going to require a dyno tune. Hey, it happens. No ones fault that's just the way it is sometimes when you start modifying.

Before I meet with Doc for the tune, I'll first install Andrews .54 cams.

I will post my opinion of my experience with Doc Tuning as well as the Dyno results at the end of the month. My appointment with Doc is Thursday the 29th.

As a side note, from Doc's I'll be traveling to Traxxion for the installation of the AK 20 front suspension and the Bitubo rears.

The bike I bring home I suspect will be quite different and much improved from the bike I leave with. Gotta love it.

[WestCoastRuss]

If you are with the bike during all the installs....how about a few pictures??   

[jesse111]

If you are with the bike during all the installs....how about a few pictures??   

Russ, I really need to take some photos. I just can't seem to get myself to do it either with my pro gear or even my iPhone I need to start taking some shots. I'll try and get some on here soon.

[BUBBLEHEAD]

How about doing a thread on the suspension changes when done. Would really like to hear what you think.

[jesse111]

How about doing a thread on the suspension changes when done. Would really like to hear what you think.

Great idea. I started a thread here.

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=48512.0

[CVO FF]

I called Fullsac today and purchased the 2.0 baffles for my ride. Got a message on email that they are already shipped. wow what service! Thanks Steve.
I was going to go with Rinehart slip-ons but all of you convinced me this is the best option. I have to agree for the $ using the same cans, which look good, is my best option. More upgrades later for X pipe, TTS Mastertune and Air.

Although some warned me about this site offering to spend my money this choice was a wise one that saved me $$. Thanks to your input on the various threads. This site is a great experience. 
Ride safe.

[lvse110se5]

Always happy to help spend someone elses money. Enjoy the Fullsacs!

[FL54]

It's all about spending other people's money.  Isn't that what our current government does best?

[KODAGRIN]

Installed the 2.0 inch baffles on Chitlin's new SESG yesterday.  Used the dremel with a grinding stone to remove welds on stock baffle--worked well and was easy to avoid damage to muffler body.  Left the stock packing in the muffler, drilled 1/4" hole 1 1/2" from end and installed new baffle using a wood block and hammer to drive baffle in.  Did 200 mile test ride and am very happy with the sound!  Sounds like Rinehart duals but not quite as loud (and I don't think Rineharts are too loud).  All went smoothly and everything went back together perfectly---mostly due to the advice and shared experiences here on this website!  This forum has been a very valuable source of information, but I haven't yet decided what tuner to use.  I think the guys at the HD dealerships have been told to always recommend their own product, and one service manager told me he didn't like the PC because it added more "connections"!  Two others told me the PC has a high failure rate due to moisture.   Right now, I'm leaning toward the Zipper's Thundermax w/ autotune over the PC V w/ autotune because of space, so it will probably be the Thundermax or the HD supertuner.  But first I will install the Vance & Hines Power Dual headpipes--which I chose over the Fullsac "B" headpipes mostly because I don't really like the looks of the stock heatshields.

[jesse111]

As regards tuners, don't rule out TTS Mastertune.

[lvse110se5]

I agree, check put the TTS Mastertune

[HOGMIKE]

Installed the 2.0 inch baffles on Chitlin's new SESG yesterday.  Used the dremel with a grinding stone to remove welds on stock baffle--worked well and was easy to avoid damage to muffler body.  Left the stock packing in the muffler, drilled 1/4" hole 1 1/2" from end and installed new baffle using a wood block and hammer to drive baffle in.  Did 200 mile test ride and am very happy with the sound!  Sounds like Rinehart duals but not quite as loud (and I don't think Rineharts are too loud).  All went smoothly and everything went back together perfectly---mostly due to the advice and shared experiences here on this website!  This forum has been a very valuable source of information, but I haven't yet decided what tuner to use.  I think the guys at the HD dealerships have been told to always recommend their own product, and one service manager told me he didn't like the PC because it added more "connections"!  Two others told me the PC has a high failure rate due to moisture.   Right now, I'm leaning toward the Zipper's Thundermax w/ autotune over the PC V w/ autotune because of space, so it will probably be the Thundermax or the HD supertuner.  But first I will install the Vance & Hines Power Dual headpipes--which I chose over the Fullsac "B" headpipes mostly because I don't really like the looks of the stock heatshields.

I went just the opposite for the same reason!
Our bikes are very personal, aren't they?
 

[Jerry/MD]

I installed the Fullsac x-pipe and 1.75 baffles on my bike a few weeks ago. Thanks to all the great info on this site...things went smoothly. I've seen a nice gain in performance. Now...I'm waiting for the weather to warm up so I can see if the engine heat is reduced.

[FL54]

After looking into the stock headpipe and seeing how badly the cat blocked the flow, you have to think it will reduce engine heat.  Funny but even though I've ridden my bike in hot weather (over 100 degrees) it never got overheated.  I didn't have to ride it in traffic in that heat however, only on the open road.

[StrikerDown]

Many thanks to all who have posted here. This site is a wealth of knowledge and experience.

My heat issue is with the cat and the way air flows off of it. Crusin down the road the air flows past the Cat and swirls up by my right leg heating up the back side of the my leg from calf to cheek!

This is the first bike I have had this problem with and first bike with a cat so I'm thinking it (the cat) must be the problem. Too bad a little anti freeze won't fix this cat!  

Just received the Fullsac 2" baffles and haven't put them in yet. I am seriously thinking of the X pipe and the rest of the Fullsac Stage 1 upgrade.

Question:

The Scremin Eagle catalog states with a CVO and their High Flow Air Cleaner that a different AC cover is required, Anyone know is this is the case?

Is the Arlen Ness Big Sucker just a better way to go? (it comes in chrome too!)

Edit: I talked with Steve at Fullsac... He will ship me the Stage 1 with X pipe as soon as they arrive from being Ceramic coated, And a big sucker too!

[roadking71865]

I went with Arlene Ness per Steve

[Jerry/MD]

Many thanks to all who have posted here. This site is a wealth of knowledge and experience.

My heat issue is with the cat and the way air flows off of it. Crusin down the road the air flows past the Cat and swirls up by my right leg heating up the back side of the my leg from calf to cheek!

This is the first bike I have had this problem with and first bike with a cat so I'm thinking it (the cat) must be the problem. Too bad a little anti freeze won't fix this cat!  

Just received the Fullsac 2" baffles and haven't put them in yet. I am seriously thinking of the X pipe and the rest of the Fullsac Stage 1 upgrade.

Question:

The Scremin Eagle catalog states with a CVO and their High Flow Air Cleaner that a different AC cover is required, Anyone know is this is the case?

Is the Arlen Ness Big Sucker just a better way to go? (it comes in chrome too!)

Edit: I talked with Steve at Fullsac... He will ship me the Stage 1 with X pipe as soon as they arrive from being Ceramic coated, And a big sucker too!

I talked to Steve about this very issue. The Arlen Ness does fit. I installed one on my bike a few weeks ago.

Apparently H-D's stance is the oval shape of the stock air cleaner cover is not a recommended fit with the round filter. I'm not sure if this is a big issue...but some have had their cover fall off due to fatigue of the hardware. Right now I'm not sure what to believe.

[10SE5]

My heat issue is with the cat and the way air flows off of it. Crusin down the road the air flows past the Cat and swirls up by my right leg heating up the back side of the my leg from calf to cheek!

This is the first bike I have had this problem with and first bike with a cat so I'm thinking it (the cat) must be the problem.

Check for an exhaust leak. Mine was real hot  even when cruising the highway and when it was in the dealer for the 1k service they found the leak. Still a little hot but not as bad as it was before.

[StrikerDown]

I talked to Steve about this very issue. The Arlen Ness does fit. I installed one on my bike a few weeks ago.

That is what he told me also, giving it a try. I have always been a fan of K&N air filters anyway.

Check for an exhaust leak. Mine was real hot  even when cruising the highway and when it was in the dealer for the 1k service they found the leak. Still a little hot but not as bad as it was before.

I can't hear anything like a leak and don't see any soot at the joints, not that that means a whole lot, but I can feel the heat radiating off the cat when stopped. It feels like it is a lot hotter near the cat then anywhere else on the exhaust system. The cat must go... Soon!

[gg]

Hi Striker, maybe I missed something, but why don't you either remove the cat from your existing HD header assembly or purchase one of the 96" HD cat free headers and install it? They are identical and that is what I did. Of course I don't live in California, so enforcement issues are less intense. Until you remove the catalytic converter, it will always be extremely hot, not to metion the things that heat is likely to do to other aspects of the engine and you as the rider.  Good luck.

[StrikerDown]

Hi Striker, maybe I missed something, but why don't you either remove the cat from your existing HD header assembly or purchase one of the 96" HD cat free headers and install it? They are identical and that is what I did. Of course I don't live in California, so enforcement issues are less intense. Until you remove the catalytic converter, it will always be extremely hot, not to metion the things that heat is likely to do to other aspects of the engine and you as the rider.  Good luck.

I don't think you missed anything. I don't want to destroy the cat lest I should need it. The '96 would be a possibility if I could find one, I have looked.  Fullsac seems to be the most expedient and best performance at the time.

PS: You don't want to live in CA either!

[HOGMIKE]

I don't think you missed anything. I don't want to destroy the cat lest I should need it. The '96 would be a possibility if I could find one, I have looked.  Fullsac seems to be the most expedient and best performance at the time.

PS: You don't want to live in CA either!

FYI: ALL 2010 head pipes have a cat inside. 2009 CA and export pipes have a cat. The other 96" do not. ALL 110" touring DO!

The location/size of 02 sensors have changed from '09 to '10

IMHO best bet would be to remove stock head pipes and go to a fullsac "A" or "B" pipe depending on the build, or any other aftermarket head pipe. Jackpot also makes a nice looking one.