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[hard10]

Alright guys, I'll be getting the bike back from Sav HD tomorrow afternoon. On the way down I'll stop and buy a infrared thermometer. My question is where should I take the temps? And what parameters should those readings be in? I am starting to worry that I may be running too hot.

I know that there are a few of us running the PCIII. I have noticed the pops while decelerating also. I can smell gas on occasion. Neither of these issuse are problems at this time but I want to make sure I'm not doing any harm.

I know y'all are going to tell me to go the Tmax-Autotune route, but for right now I am satisfied so long as I am not doing any damage. TIA, AJ (fastestPCIIIjester)

[Unbalanced]

AJ,

(fastestPCIIIjester)  Sure glad I wasn't drinking when I read that ... spew   

Check the temps at the head around the spark plug area.  Holding the gun about 6 to 8 inches away is usually how I have done it and seen it done.

[ESJ JESTER]

AJ  I always shoot the sparkplug metal hex base area. should be hottest area and a point for both cyl to consistantly reference.   watch the batteries in them around cats tho.  they seem to go dead around them  quickly

[ESJ JESTER]

Alright guys, I'll be getting the bike back from Sav HD tomorrow afternoon. On the way down I'll stop and buy a infrared thermometer. My question is where should I take the temps? And what parameters should those readings be in? I am starting to worry that I may be running too hot.

I know that there are a few of us running the PCIII. I have noticed the pops while decelerating also. I can smell gas on occasion. Neither of these issuse are problems at this time but I want to make sure I'm not doing any harm.

I know y'all are going to tell me to go the Tmax-Autotune route, but for right now I am satisfied so long as I am not doing any damage. TIA, AJ (fastestPCIIIjester)

  Degrees F  altho   BTU's might be good if your looking for WORK  energy....  the british  thermals  are the ones with the 2 button trap door in the seat area??? right        must be those bangers and mash with guiness  release kind

[hard10]

AJ  I always shoot the sparkplug metal hex base area. should be hottest area and a point for both cyl to consistantly reference.   watch the batteries in them around cats tho.  they seem to go dead around them  quickly

Y'all bust me up  . Shouldn't this be in another thread. I was trying to be serious here.

Check the temps at the head around the spark plug area.  Holding the gun about 6 to 8 inches away is usually how I have done it and seen it done.

[/color]
OK now I know where.
Should the front and rear jugs be the same? And what temp do they run?

AJ,

(fastestPCIIIjesterandbetterlookinthanrhino)

[ESJ JESTER]

due to the cooling air hitting the front cylinder first then blowing rearward  the back cylinder will always be much warmer than the front.  What you are looking for is the worse case seneiro i.e.  hot long WOT  runs    or  slow  bumper to bumper traffic   as compared to the "average" ride.   After tuning for performance  or fuel economy  there will be a temp change because of the more or less gasoline being burned in the cylinder thus the lower temp(more fuel) and the higher temp(leaner mixture fuel)   .   getting the base figures and keeping track of the temp diferences as well as the conditions they are taken under is the key to it all.   Naturally  if the head temps get too hot   i.e. 350    shut the bike off to cool for a bit  or pull off the bumper to bumper for adult entertainment   heads in the low to mid two's are  ok

[Chief]

You sure it's got nothing to do with all that AFR messing around you're doing Chief? Did you try putting a canned PC map back in and measuring the temps again? Just a thought, and you know a lot more about setting the PC than me. But I thought you were getting a little carried away. I could be totally off-base. Just some thoughts I had about it. Hoist!

Well, I started with a the DynoJet map for the 110 / Rinehart / SE AC and richened it up from there. I haven't gone back to do a cell by cell comparison yet, but I will tonight, and if I'm leaner anywhere than the canned map, I'll use their value, but keep all mine that are richer.

At 13.2 / 13.3 kind of numbers, I don't think I should be seeing this much heat on the rear jug.

I may seek professional help.

Chief

[Chief]

Damn, Chief...90 degrees different is a LOT.  With the A/F ratios you're running right now, that really surprises me.  Last I heard from Don, he was still running about 13:1 accross the board, but he was talking about tweaking the Autotune to leaner settings at certain RPM's.

My bike, after the RH's and PCIII dyno is right on 13:1 at WOT and was tuned across the board at 13.4:1, give or take a tenth for any given situation.  One thing I have noticed is that since I put the Doherty PP on, my fuel milage has gone up a couple of mpg, so I'm probably leaner than 13.4:1 right now, since I have not retuned.  Bike is running good though.  When I changed my plugs at 10K, they were spot on with the 13.4:1 and 13:1 WOT...nice light tan color, no glazing and no soot.  I'm currently getting about 35-40mpg, depending on how I ride,and that is two up.  I'll be able to give you another mileage figure after my run to your neck of the woods tomorrow morning, and I'll be riding by myself, and at speeds between 75-85 as much as possible.

Two differences between our bikes, 1) Head Bolt Bridge, so I didn't have a clean shot at the head surface next to the plug. 2) Different powder coat, his may being red and shiny may yield different readings with the IR thermo for the same temp. I think the interference with the head bolt bridge has the largest impact. It's not a fair comparison.

Chief

[Chief]

Cheif,
This is Adam from Zipper's. I just wanted to chime in to tell you that 360 is WAY too hot, that is in the danger zone. You are at the heat treat temperature of the head castings, if you go much beyond that, or do not correct the current issue, something WILL fail. Let me repeat this to show the significance of your findings, 360 is DANGEROUSLY hot.

2 quick questions for you:
What EFI management system are you using?
Does your engine have any problems reaching 6000 RPM, or does it fall on its face at 4000 RPM? I'm simply curious if the problem is in the EFI management, tuning, or internal in the engine.

We at Zipper's have seen and read the thread called "Best AFR", and we are not ignoring the request for us to respond FYI. This is a Very tricky question because the truth to the matter is that there is no perfect AFR for these air cooled engines. We are having an internal meeting of the minds tonight and we're going to answer the question as best as we can. We did not want to jump in and say the first thing that came to mind, we have been evaluating this very topic on our dyno for quite some time now, coupled with road testing for rideability, throttle response, and heat during Actual riding. Please stay tuned for a much more detailed response on the AFR subject, either later today or tomorrow morning.

Thanks!
Adam

Adam,

Thanks so much for chiming in. If you don't mind, I'll call you today.

I am running a Power Commander starting with the 812-025 map and have richened it up based on AFR readings from a Daytona Twin Scan II+ 2-channel.

I don't have my latest data run here, but I am shooting for AFR's low to mid 13's. The default on the tool is set for 13.2, but I was using 13.5 as a target, and adjusting to that. In reply #38 in the Best AFR thread, you can see the where I started with the DJ 110 map, and where I am at my latest. When I look at that, I have to believe I'm going in the right direction, and would think I should be pretty close to being where I want to be.

Thanks again for jumping in where you don't have to. I really do appreciate it.

Chief

[Chief]

Chief,

Have you looked at the trim settings on the power commander?   I am wondering if it is possible that your fuel is following to much of a path to the front cylinder and not enough to the rear?   

I am also curious if you were to take your settings of choice on the rear cylinder on the power commander and richen the heck out of it does the temperature come down any?  Just as a test where you would save the map your working on or have you done this and if so what were the results?

Harry,

My plan for this afternoon is a flat +10% across the board for the rear jug and see what happens.

Chief

[Unbalanced]

Chief,

Sounds like you maybe removing the headbolt bridge for testing purposes and your own sanity.

[Chief]

You know, those temps you were running above, if we can get back to it, are not so bad. More fuel will help a litle, but airflow works better.  As weget to the 90's here i FL, it wil be interesting. My temps today in he high 70's, showed oiltemp at 235 at shutdown. I am also running whre I should IMO.  It is not a worry thatI can see, just keep moving, becasue even with duals, open vents and a squirt bottle, it will get warm around the inseams. Just keep riding, and check your plugs and seeif they are tan. Mine are stil a bit white, slightly to the off white/tan side, and that is runnig 14.1 to 12.2 over the appropriate ranges.  The more interesting thing is with these heat issues responses from Harley.  Can you guys imagine running a totally stock 110?  Blisters and repairs I see coming.  I am confident that there will be a solution, but in the meantime I asm running what works best for fuel for the bike across the range.  I lowered my idle down to 825, and it helped. Also noticed wid ditrection played a role to.  Try to keep the lower fairing open all year, and close then during the cooler months, otherwise open em up.

Rhino

Related posts on BEST AFR too

Rhino,

What you said about a stock bike made me remember a used 07 FLHTC, with really low miles for sale at a local dealer. I was looking at it and noticed that the reflector on the right frame tube was actually bubbled and blistered. It's close to the front header, I can only imagine what happened to cause it to get hot enough to blister the black plastic.

Chief

[Chief]

Alright guys, I'll be getting the bike back from Sav HD tomorrow afternoon. On the way down I'll stop and buy a infrared thermometer. My question is where should I take the temps? And what parameters should those readings be in? I am starting to worry that I may be running too hot.

I know that there are a few of us running the PCIII. I have noticed the pops while decelerating also. I can smell gas on occasion. Neither of these issuse are problems at this time but I want to make sure I'm not doing any harm.

I know y'all are going to tell me to go the Tmax-Autotune route, but for right now I am satisfied so long as I am not doing any damage. TIA, AJ (fastestPCIIIjester)

To add a disclaimer to my reading of 360, that was on the back wall of the head, to the right of the spark plug. This is pretty close to the exhaust port, and may not be a fair measurement. I found that spot by scanning the head with the thermo, and looking for hot spots.

The flat black area between the head bolts, runs 330 ish. Still pretty freakin hot. Too hot for me.

Chief

[Chief]

Chief,

Sounds like you maybe removing the headbolt bridge for testing purposes and your own sanity.

The bridge is on Don's bike. Don get mad if Chief remove his pretty bling bling.

Chief

[hard10]

The bridge is on Don's bike. Don get mad if Chief remove his pretty bling bling.

Chief

I've got the same bridge. We really need to set this two bikes side by side for comparision.