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[Screaming Tuna]

The day after tomorrow I'm having a V&H's Big Radius 2:1 installed on my 110ci FXDSE, along with a new SERT. My question is a generic one . . . is there anything I should request or watch for when my Dealer tunes the bike on the Dyno? I always hear about so and so is a great tuner or a terrible tuner - trouble is I don't know what to expect or what to look for in a good tune job - any suggestions?

[hd-dude]

Spend some time and educate yourself by reading this thread on tuning, Its great info form American Iron Magazine.

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=6566.0

Good luck and be sure to report back on your tune.

[Unbalanced]

do not allow them to make your baseline pull until the motor is over 200 degrees.   Do not have them blowing air directly into your intake (air cleaner).  Make sure you have no intake or exhaust leaks before you start this.

1.  Tire has 40 lbs of air in it
2.  Leave the air cleaner cover on  (you can gain 2 - 5 horsepower by removing it.)
3.  Use a high flow air cleaner not a harley one.  example k&n / ness / zippers
4.  have them remove the muffler and tune each cylinder independently then when they think they have it put the muffler back on and finish the tune.
5.  ask them to give you runs from 2,5,10,15,20,40 percent fixed throttle on each cylinder.  don't be so worried about the numbers more that you have a flat fuel curve for driveability sake
6.  Final dyno run should be smooth air fuel curve / and should tail off at the end higher rpms from leaner to richer. (going left to right the line should gradually go down to the right.


 

[Screaming Tuna]

THANK YOU for the advice and info guys - will post data next week w/pics

[kojak]

THANK YOU for the advice and info guys - will post data next week w/pics

Also get a hi-flo a/c.

[StrahDawg]

Good luck with it Tuna I know you been waiting awhile to get that exhaust. Look forward to seeing the results.

[Screaming Tuna]

Well after many, many months I got the V&H's Big Radius 2-1, K&N Air Filter and SERT installed last Friday. WOW - what a great looking pipe on this bike (FXDSE) - I mean WOW!!!!!

Shop Foreman brings me this Dyno sheet and says "wow - great numbers dont you think?" - I looked and replyed "I'm not impressed at all" - best run was done in 5th gear (slightly better than in 4th) showing 91.09 hp and 106.90 tq with a decent (not great) curve. He was bragging about the great increase from stock (81.79hp and 85.30tq). Then I noticed the stock numbers were at a totally different temperture - asked him about it and learned they were NOT from my bike, but some other 110 they Dyno'ed a month ago! Then I noticed no air/fuel readings - and THEN he admitted his tuner was gone to a funeral and they just threw in a canned map!!! Boy was I pissed - had hauled the bike 200 miles to get this stuff done. He finally agreed to send a trailer over tomorrow to pick up my bike and get it tuned right.

He did mention that he had to drill a hole in the baffle to insert the air/fuel probe if he was to custom tune it on the Dyno - and that this might cause a whistling noise (thru the drilled hole) - is that correct?

[Steve_G]

Does anyone know if the MoCo has a sert for the '08 models yet?  Or when they might be available?  -Steve

[Talon]

That's why the info that HD-Dude and Unbalanced gave is so important, the tuner or wannabe tuner can do many things to make thing look good in his favor. You busted his a$$ because you knew enough when looking at the data and see what they did. Many people would have just taken their word, and that's what some of these guys expect!   

[Midnight Rider]

Well after many, many months I got the V&H's Big Radius 2-1, K&N Air Filter and SERT installed last Friday. WOW - what a great looking pipe on this bike (FXDSE) - I mean WOW!!!!!

Shop Foreman brings me this Dyno sheet and says "wow - great numbers dont you think?" - I looked and replyed "I'm not impressed at all" - best run was done in 5th gear (slightly better than in 4th) showing 91.09 hp and 106.90 tq with a decent (not great) curve. He was bragging about the great increase from stock (81.79hp and 85.30tq). Then I noticed the stock numbers were at a totally different temperture - asked him about it and learned they were NOT from my bike, but some other 110 they Dyno'ed a month ago! Then I noticed no air/fuel readings - and THEN he admitted his tuner was gone to a funeral and they just threw in a canned map!!! Boy was I pissed - had hauled the bike 200 miles to get this stuff done. He finally agreed to send a trailer over tomorrow to pick up my bike and get it tuned right.

He did mention that he had to drill a hole in the baffle to insert the air/fuel probe if he was to custom tune it on the Dyno - and that this might cause a whistling noise (thru the drilled hole) - is that correct?

Had to drill a hole in my V&H 2/1 pipe for my Vrod.  No problems with whistling noises that I can hear.  It will make it a tiny bit louder.  The hole is about 1/2 inch in diameter, which is the diameter of most sensors they stick in there.

[THEOZZ]

That sucks that they wasted your time. I'm starting to think most dealers aren't worried about customer service just the $$$ signs. Hope everything works out for you.

[Unbalanced]

Wow you busted their a$$ good on this one.

Here is the problem I see with what they are doing.

1.  Your not going to be there to make sure they pull the muffler to tune each cylinder.

2.   They have already tried to bullchit you.   Now they know they can't to a point.

3.   Because your not there you won't be able to tell if they left the air cleaner on or off and you wont be able to tell if they over inflate your tires to get a number and have you go away.

I wouldnt worry about the hole they drill into the endcap.  No other way to do it with your choice of pipe.

Make sure they do your throttle runs and take off the muffler to tune the bike first than finish with the muffler on.
otherwise they really arent tuning your motor well.

-harry

[Screaming Tuna]

Harry

I'm confused about the pulling muffler off - how does that help - I mean the backpressure created by the exhaust system is a key part of performance and general state of tune - how does pulling the mufflers aid the tuning process.

Also - I've got a 2 into 1 exhaust system (Big Radius)

On the bright side - I do have their dyno sheet so I will have some basis of comparision (even though they could fudge thru overinflating the tires or pulling the air cleaner cover (although I have the SE backplate which allows a huge amount of air to reach the filter so I don't know if pulling the outer cover would help much?)

[Midnight Rider]

Harry

I'm confused about the pulling muffler off - how does that help - I mean the backpressure created by the exhaust system is a key part of performance and general state of tune - how does pulling the mufflers aid the tuning process.

Also - I've got a 2 into 1 exhaust system (Big Radius)

On the bright side - I do have their dyno sheet so I will have some basis of comparison (even though they could fudge thru overinflating the tires or pulling the air cleaner cover (although I have the SE backplate which allows a huge amount of air to reach the filter so I don't know if pulling the outer cover would help much?)

A lot of times, they'll pull the entire filter off, leaving nothing but the backplate.  It WILL give you about a 5% gain in numbers...3-5 on both sides. IMO, and that of a very experienced tuner used by me and a couple of others in the area, the SE backplate, with the stock 0800 K&N is marginal on amount of air flow allowed into the TB on a 103 or larger engine. With a 2/1, pulling the muff allows them to get the sniffer into each header.  With True Duals, they can stick the sniffer far enough in there to get a good reading, particularly with an open muffler, like the Rinehart's.  On a PCIIIUSB, this is called an advanced tune, in that each cylinder is tuned independently. Setting the A/F ratio, etc is not dependent on the muffler being on the bike.  Doing a pull to see what the numbers are is where the presence of the muffler comes into play.  I'm not a big believer in Dyno numbers, all other things being equal, but I am a big believer in getting a good tune regarding A/F and Timing to achieve decent fuel economy on cruise throttle positions, and not being overly rich at WOT.  This will make the bike a better driver.  To tweak every last HP or TQ out of the motor is not as important to me as how the bike feels in real world riding. 

Harry, feel free to correct me if I have misstated any of this....

[Unbalanced]

TC you got it pretty much dead on.

Let me give a for instance and you will then be able to see why to pull the muffler.

Front cylinder is running lean way lean, but the rear is running really rich.  When you put the sniffer only into the muffler and not into each head pipe you could come out that you have a pretty even tune going on when in reality your tearing up the front cylinder and the rear is rich and safe.

The idea isnt to get your final numbers but a decent base line tune on each cylinder and then go to the overall tune so your not compensating on a cylinder where there could be an issue.

With only using the muffler you have no clue how each cylinder is running independently.

I will check in later have to head to California now