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[Twolanerider]

This has become an absolute pain.  Any suggestions or insights are appreciated.  Have been staring at the problem too long.  Here's the deal:

Had an oil pan gasket leak.  At the RF corner of the pan.  Took it apart.  Saw a bad spot in the gasket.  Put it back together.  No more leak at the RF corner of the pan.

Now it leaks on the right side of the pan almost directly above the transmission drain.  And it's done it over and over and over.

With the initial repair attempt not only was the gasket changed the pan was also.  I had a pan here that had been powder coated red quite some time ago.  It was waiting for a reason to put it on.  This was it.

Upon installation of the new pan and gasket had this new oil leak in this new location farther back than was the original leak.  The picture here is taken from the perspective of being under the right footboard and looking back at the transmission and oil pan.  The oil pan bolt you see over the frame tube is the pan bolt almost directly above the transmission drain.  That's where the leak is.

[Twolanerider]

Pan in the pictures is silver not red.  That's because the attempts at fixing this have been multiple.

Took it back down after the first attempt thinking I must've rolled or scuffed a gasket.  Had been careful but it would be easy enough to do as the pan is worked back over the cross member.

Second attempt with the red pan and a different style gasket ended up with exactly the same leak in exactly the same place.

Here it is a little bot closer in.  You can see the wet area above and around that same oil pan bolt.  Just above that is the tranny side cover.  Tranny has Redline.  So a side cover leak would look like strawberry poo.  It's engine oil.

[Twolanerider]

Took it back down a third time.  Rechecked deck of the bottom of the transmission and top of the pan for straightness/flatness.  The surfaces are flat.  The bolts aren't bottoming out.  They are pulling against the pan.  This time reinstalled the original silver pan.  As mush as any other reason just to try something different.

This pan had the original leak at the very RF corner.  Had never leaked in this spot that is now the problem.  It's leaking there now.  Same place as the red pan had twice.

Here's a slightly wider view that's still close in to see.  It's wet up to the bottom of the tranny side cover.  So oil is (apparently) leaking from the gasket surface and blowing up just a bit as it spreads while going down the road.

[Twolanerider]

Took it back down again this evening.  Rechecked everything again.  Crawled around under bike better to get even better views of the bottom of the transmission.  The bolt hole directly under the leak pulls tight.  It shows no signs of a crack anywhere in the tranny case looking at it from the inside.  From the outside it's hard to tell but at the highest point oil is seen it should be coming from the lower area of the pan because that high on the side of the trans case would be tranny oil.

Here is looking up at the area of the transmission that the leak seems to be coming from.  The larger hole is the transmission drain chute.  The bolt hole just to the left of it is the bolt hole for the bolt seen in the prior photos.  Surface and inner body look pristine and check flat.

It still leaked though.  Just exactly the same place it had three times previous.  This stopped being fun about three removals of the oil pan ago.

[Twolanerider]

Ok, help.  It doesn't appear to be coming through the transmission case.  Though I can't swear to that.  But new gaskets and very careful installation don't fix it.  It's exactly the same spot each time.  And it began happening immediately after the pan was removed to fix an oil leak in a different area of the pan. 

Bolt hasn't been pulled too tight.  Dye and UV don't differentiate enough in that confined space to show if it's actually coming from the pan gasket or just above through some defect in the trans case.

Anyone have ANY ideas.  It's not about hubris.  I'd be glad if I screwed something up just so I could find it and fix it.  This isn't rocket science though.  Just a straightforward parts removal and installation.  And I don't have a freaking clue at this point.

Barring any epiphany from the bleacher seats here I think the next attempt will have to be completely removing the transmission.  To allow better visualization of the area in question and, at the very least, a reinstall of the pan using a gasket sealant and adhesive product.  Can't really do that when in the frame as the pan can't be slid back in place without contacting the tranny.  So any layer of any product used would just get smeared.

If I can't actually see a specific point of leak/failure I'll even be tempted to order a transmission case.  It's not coming from anyplace farther forward.  It's not coming from the oil lines just above this location and running down (completely dry in that pocket).  The leak is narrowly placed right around or just above the curve in the oil pan where the transmission drain chute is.  In fact the oil runs down the side of the pan and most of it drips off the tranny drain plug.


Ideas?  Anyone?  Anything?

[naitram]

in the dumb question department are you sure that the mating surface is truley flat? if multiple pans leak in the same spot 

[RCFlyer]

in the dumb question department are you sure that the mating surface is truly flat? if multiple pans leak in the same spot

I ususally take a long fine tooth flat file and smooth the gasket mating surfaces. You can not see very minor imperfections in the surfaces with the naked eye. I run the file very gently, covering the whole surface. You don't want to create a new problem by taking off material on one area only. You can mark or spray paint on the surface to tell when it's correct. Where the paint comes off first, there is a high spot. Hope that helps.

[Twolanerider]

in the dumb question department are you sure that the mating surface is truley flat? if multiple pans leak in the same spot 

As sure as I can be Neal.  Machinist's rule against all the surfaces.  Light behind it and feeler beneath it.  Especially the last couple of times checked it very very closely.  It's amazing the positions you can get yourself in to eye things when you're really motivated. 

[Twolanerider]

I ususally take a long fine tooth flat file and smooth the gasket mating surfaces. You can not see very minor imperfections in the surfaces with the naked eye. I run the file very gently, covering the whole surface. You don't want to create a new problem by taking off material on one area only. You can mark or spray paint on the surface to tell when it's correct. Where the paint comes off first, there is a high spot. Hope that helps.

Have sprayed the surfaces with UV reflectant and shone light behind under a machinist's rule then ran the machinist's edge along the surface and the reflectant comes off evenly.  It's as flat as you'd hope it is.  Certainly nothing that a metal cored gasket with fiber base's on both sides wouldn't be expected to handle.  Other gaskets were a solid thick fiver gasket and a paper/fiber gasket with a sealing bond chemical ring made on to it (interestingly all three different gaskets supplied under HD part 26077-99A).

[Boatman]

These are the problems that make you wonder why we are in the mechanic business.   Been there and felt your pain on several of your one line remarks, Don.

If the leak is not coming from above the pan and is misting upwards during your riding, I would take that bolt out and clean the hole threads with brake clean and reinstall that bolt with #2 permatex non hardening sealer on the bolt threads and under the head of the bolt/washer.  May even drop the pan enough to put #2 on both sides of the gasket in that spot.

This is from a guy knowing that you have backed up further on a motorcycle than I've went forward.

#2 is the most underrated/underused product on the market.

Good luck, Bob

[HUBBARD]

These are the problems that make you wonder why we are in the mechanic business.   Been there and felt your pain on several of your one line remarks, Don.

If the leak is not coming from above the pan and is misting upwards during your riding, I would take that bolt out and clean the hole threads with brake clean and reinstall that bolt with #2 permatex non hardening sealer on the bolt threads and under the head of the bolt/washer.  May even drop the pan enough to put #2 on both sides of the gasket in that spot.This is from a guy knowing that you have backed up further on a motorcycle than I've went forward.

#2 is the most underrated/underused product on the market.

Good luck, Bob

Twolane,

I concur.  Later--HUBBARD

[Twolanerider]

These are the problems that make you wonder why we are in the mechanic business.   Been there and felt your pain on several of your one line remarks, Don.

If the leak is not coming from above the pan and is misting upwards during your riding, I would take that bolt out and clean the hole threads with brake clean and reinstall that bolt with #2 permatex non hardening sealer on the bolt threads and under the head of the bolt/washer.  May even drop the pan enough to put #2 on both sides of the gasket in that spot.

This is from a guy knowing that you have backed up further on a motorcycle than I've went forward.

#2 is the most underrated/underused product on the market.

Good luck, Bob

Well......   At least good minds think alike.  This last time it went back together I put #2 Permatex in that hole.  It is my favorite sealant.  I guess it's not truly an anaerobic sealant but I often use it like one.  Had just enough in that the bolt worked up and some oozed out on to the surface area.  Not a lot; but a little.

I'm not absolutely convinced it's still not a pan to tranny leak.  But I'm no longer assuming it is either.  Am considering as a next step pulling the exhaust so I can get at the side of the case directly.  Do that both to visualize it better and to dab the questioned area with some #1 Permatex and a soft aluminum patch I'd form against it. 

Honestly if it is coming through the case just above that spot I'd not expect this to be a fix.  But I'd hope it would at least change the pattern or volume of the leak just so I'd know for sure that's what it is.  Seeing a change in the leak as a result of doing something in a slightly different area would at least isolate the leak to that different area.  If it is up there it'd mean buying a tranny case.  But I'd be much more amenable to doing that if I was actually confident beforehand that's what the problem is.

Bob, aren't we glad we picked such fun hobbies....

[Twolanerider]

Twolane,

I concur.  Later--HUBBARD

Can't argue with that Carl.  We've talked about our Dad's before.  I got the religion on Permatex and their uses learning at a garage and a machine shop with my dad when I was still short enough that the shop rag in my pocket still dragged the ground.  Stuff that's been around unchanged for that long is worth keeping around the shop.

[skreminegul07]

My 2007 had a porous tranny case.  Dealer went crazy on that one and finally ordered a case.  Long story there with tech support, etc.  Mine looked like it was the speed sensor o ring that was leaking. 

[johnsachs]

Well if I get any pan/case leak jobs in the shop,I'll call.You must have the remove/replace time down to a record.
Here's what I would do:
Warm bike up(5 mile ride).
Clean around the suspicious area with brake clean,or similar stuff.
Pressurize the trans.case with an air gun,and don't forget to plug the vent.You may need to use a goodly amount of pressure,as some air will escape through the mainshaft.
Soapy water spray the area,if you can't see oil.
Do the same thing to the engine.
You may need another set of eyes to help.
You should be able to find your problem. 
John