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[Chief]

Now that I'm tuning the bike with the Rineharts, I'm not sure what AFR to tune for.

I want both good highway efficiency and good performance at WOT.

Currently, I've set 13.5 from 0% up through 40%, and the bike is running great. 13.5 was just a guess.

I can tune 0, 2, 5, 10, 20, 40, 60, 80 and 100% throttle settings. Logic would tell me that lower throttle settings could use a leaner mixture and higher throttle should be richer. This way, I could have good cruise efficiency and get max power at higher throttle performance.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Chief

[Midnight Rider]

Now that I'm tuning the bike with the Rineharts, I'm not sure what AFR to tune for.

I want both good highway efficiency and good performance at WOT.

Currently, I've set 13.5 from 0% up through 40%, and the bike is running great. 13.5 was just a guess.

I can tune 0, 2, 5, 10, 20, 40, 60, 80 and 100% throttle settings. Logic would tell me that lower throttle settings could use a leaner mixture and higher throttle should be richer. This way, I could have good cruise efficiency and get max power at higher throttle performance.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Chief

Chief....I'm no expert in this area, so others may give different/better advice, but I've been told by a couple of tuners, and from most of the Dyno sheets I've ever seen, that WOT should be around 13:1 and a good "target" for other TP is 13.4:1.  If you tune for particular TP or RPM, you could probably shoot for 13.7:1 at typical highway cruising to get good economy, but still maintain a cooler running engine.

[Chief]

Chief....I'm no expert in this area, so others may give different/better advice, but I've been told by a couple of tuners, and from most of the Dyno sheets I've ever seen, that WOT should be around 13:1 and a good "target" for other TP is 13.4:1.  If you tune for particular TP or RPM, you could probably shoot for 13.7:1 at typical highway cruising to get good economy, but still maintain a cooler running engine.

Thanks TC. This is just what I'm looking for.

I don't presonally know any tuners to go to for answers, so I'm just guessing at this.

Chief

[Midnight Rider]

Thanks TC. This is just what I'm looking for.

I don't presonally know any tuners to go to for answers, so I'm just guessing at this.

Chief

I've picked a couple of 'em's brains for as much information as I could get, and that seemed to be the consensus of thought.

[Unbalanced]

For a general map / good running bike I would suggest 13.7 through most of your map for fuel economy and at 80 - 100 percent throttle look at 13.4 to 13.0.   I would also look at advancing the timing in both of those places 4 degrees at 80 and 6 degrees at 100 throttle and back off if you see pinging.    This should give you a nicer mix of fuel economy and playing power without fear of burning up a motor provided your efficiencies are correct and can be verified on a dyno to be sure your good to go.

[Chief]

For a general map / good running bike I would suggest 13.7 through most of your map for fuel economy and at 80 - 100 percent throttle look at 13.4 to 13.0.   I would also look at advancing the timing in both of those places 4 degrees at 80 and 6 degrees at 100 throttle and back off if you see pinging.    This should give you a nicer mix of fuel economy and playing power without fear of burning up a motor provided your efficiencies are correct and can be verified on a dyno to be sure your good to go.

Thanks Unbalanced,

Sounds like a good strategy.

Chief

[Rhino]

Hello All,

After fiddling with my Zippers Closed Loop AutoTune, I have found, on the SEUC 110 map, they have tuned for a compromise between economy and power. Most of the cruising and low end is set for 14.1, to 13.5, 13.5 after 2800 rpm for cruising. More RPM, more heat, so they richened it a bit if you are doing higher rpm cruising.   Anyway, at the high end, lets say 60 degrees throttle to 87 (max) degrees throttle, they had it set for 12.5 across the board at higher RPM's.  Now keep in mind that many factors come in to play. The actual AFR may not be what it says, due to a variety of things, like temperature, altitude, head temp, etc.  But I am one to experiment.  So I decided to lean out the actual AFR maps from 50 degress throttle at 2800 rpm up, to a leaner 13.1. 

On the auto tune, I found that this did give better economy, but it ran a bit hotter, and, my plugs were a bit on the white side.

Yesterday, while lean, to check out the economy side of things, I ran with Unbalanced.  It confirmed one thing for the day. That he, in his wisdom, did manage to eek out a win.  (downplayed here...) His plugs look great, but his economy in play mode is down too.  My mileage was better, no bigt deal except it did indicate, more fuel more power. And like I said, what you are seeing with AFR, it has some variables in the software.

Harry:  I know you will make your comments soon.

Anyway, at this AFR, I found I lost a bit of pep., so this afternoon, after checking things out again, I did stay lean on the 0-2800 rpm line, and increased fuel to 12.1 for the 2800rpm up line, changing to this setting on  the map only at 50degrees throttle up to the max of 87. (note: Zippers uses degress of throttle vs percentages, as others do)

So in conclusion, I think a full point richer will make a difference on my experimnet.  I look forward to the next run soon.

Rhino (FastestJester w caveat)

[Unbalanced]

Ronnie,

Since you brought it up,

I keep hearing from you woulda, coulda, shoulda, if only I had..... 
 
Sounds like AJ is going to have to spend some more money on that perty motosickle he has.

I have your new signature all picked out, it should say at least I beat AJ hehe

[SBB]

AJ

Don't take that from them.
If you count horsepower per dollar spent then you are way ahead of all of them.
Let me know when your ready for a few ponies and I will introduce you to the right people.

 

[Ironhorse]

Okay guys,

My t-max auto-tune came with the standard Zippers 13.1 afr. I have been leaning it out for freeway riding to 13.8. Should I also be leaning out the idle and off idle afr too? Those are in the 13.1 range. Have I been tweaking in the wrong areas? And 13.1 is richer (more fuel), than 3.8 right? I just want to make sure I am going in the right direction.

Thanks.

[ESJ JESTER]

Yes 13.1 is richer..  12 is even richer.    3.8  might need triple spark plug heads to fire it but boy oh boy a plug in the tail pipe and it will look like a top fueler on steeroids!!!   just kiddin...

[Hoist!]

Okay guys,

My t-max auto-tune came with the standard Zippers 13.1 afr. I have been leaning it out for freeway riding to 13.8. Should I also be leaning out the idle and off idle afr too? Those are in the 13.1 range. Have I been tweaking in the wrong areas? And 13.1 is richer (more fuel), than 3.8 right? I just want to make sure I am going in the right direction.

Thanks.

It's called AFR, meaning Air Fuel Ratio, stated as 13.1:1 for example. Therefore the higher the first number the more air, or leaner. The lower the ratio, the richer. You should be a little richer at idle and WFO than the cruising range. The expert tuners here can guide you better on the AFR's at various RPM's, but the bottom and top should be richer than the middle. Hoist!

[Rhino]

On the Autotune, in the AFR ratios, the HIGHER the number, the LEANER you are. The reference is 13.1 parts AIR, to one part fuel.

I did not change the low end numbers, but I did change SLIGHTLY the transition from the starting gate postion to the high rpm cruising from 13.0 to 1,  to 12.2 to 1 at the 50 or so degree marks to WOT, whcih is 87 degrees me thing, only after 2800 rpm.  This should provide the stock fuel mileage, but boost it up for WOT operation.

Hope this helps.

RE SB,

The game is not how exotic we can get....yet...  the idea is to make the apples to apples competion work. I am working on that part, while Harry is too.  I just happen to have a known quantity to play with, while Harry is using his genius to make it work.  Same diff, I will hold that stock title, might just take another day or two.

Rhino(fastestjester)

[Rhino]

Hey IronHorse, could you please clarify if your running with the o2 sensors? Your comment about the autotune set for 13.1 should be shaded, and autotune, o2 sensors detected should have been noted, unless you are just running the zippers ECM without them. Lemme know I can help

Rhino (fastestjesterinonemoreday)

[Hoist!]

If you guys wanna play around and have some real fun, get their Wego II AFR Monitor System http://www.zippersperformance.com/catalogue/showproduct.asp?cat=588&prod=2129 Then you'll really know what's going on. Hoist!