Topic: Budget 113 builds (Read 11156 times)

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **on:** February 12, 2015, 11:25:58 AM »

The builds are all the same parts the only changes are ex systems. ALL runs are done at 185+ engine temps.. Stock head one to another will vary but you get the picture. Over all not hard to build a tq monster on a budget. Not looking for any other ideas. I was asked to post up a sheet with these all back to back to back.. If you have something to say about how this other 113 kit works lets see the sheet in SAE or dont waste any ones time.. ( you know who you are)

Gmr 113 kits , our 577 cam lifters and pushrods. Stock heads and t/b

Overall avg is 113.36 HP and 128.72 TQ

RED= Fulsac C pipe with crusher mufflers

BLUE= V&H pwr dual with V&H high outputs

Orange Fuls sac C pipe with fulsac 1.75 core mufflers

SneakyPete · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2015, 01:28:23 PM »

Nice package, consistent results

Jswerve · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2015, 01:52:20 PM »

Looks great Steve.

deldago · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2015, 02:54:19 PM »

Great info, sure shows exhaust choice really affects low end. I never thought you would see close to 20 ft. Lbs. difference!

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2015, 03:24:36 PM »

Well peak numbers tell one story and the curve another..

Now lets toss it all into the blender and have people who can type, but do not tune efi , can make suggestions that they have no real idea what the out come will be once let alone several times in a row. Other than a statement on what they have witnessed.. So did they really see it or did some one else tell them about it.. and if they really did see it was it all on the same dyno with the same parts more than twice??

LMAO Thats funny right

The entire reason I would rather see the same shop with back to back and yes even back to back again data. Take out the peak number penis contest, look at the curve and decide it that is your bag of cats , if one would use that term..

And to that I say have a great freaking day

Just messing around its good data and thats that..

Jswerve · « **Reply #5 on:** February 12, 2015, 05:31:06 PM »

I really like the curve for the Fullsac C (red) vs. the other 2.

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #6 on:** February 12, 2015, 06:01:25 PM »

thats a C pipe with crusher mufflers

Jswerve · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2015, 06:09:25 PM »

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on February 12, 2015, 06:01:25 PM

thats a C pipe with crusher mufflers

Yes sir. My buddy Stu has those crushers. Him and Sachs love those things.

SneakyPete · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2015, 07:03:35 PM »

Quote from: Jswerve on February 12, 2015, 05:31:06 PM

I really like the curve for the Fullsac C (red) vs. the other 2.

X2.

JoeVibe · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2015, 07:49:31 PM »

Quote from: Jswerve on February 12, 2015, 05:31:06 PM

I really like the curve for the Fullsac C (red) vs. the other 2.

It's definitely the Crushers Jesse. When Steve had mine he showed me how they compared to my V&H Twin Slash Rounds and it was a no-brainer to go with the Crushers. My final curve looked a lot like the red one. I get compliments all the time about the sound of my bike now. Maybe because since Steve worked on it most of my riding buddies are behind me.

T-Roy · « **Reply #10 on:** February 12, 2015, 07:56:55 PM »

I like the torque curve of the crusher mufflers also. But I already have the V&H power duals with the V&H Hi Output mufflers. I am headed to see Steve when I fly in from offshore on February 25th. I plan on going with his .600 cam and his 113 build with the hopes of that torque curve possibly getting a little broader on the low end. Maybe crossing that 120 mark on HP? Fingers are crossed.

JoeVibe · « **Reply #11 on:** February 12, 2015, 08:50:54 PM »

Quote from: T-Roy on February 12, 2015, 07:56:55 PM

I like the torque curve of the crusher mufflers also. But I already have the V&H power duals with the V&H Hi Output mufflers. I am headed to see Steve when I fly in from offshore on February 25th. I plan on going with his .600 cam and his 113 build with the hopes of that torque curve possibly getting a little broader on the low end. Maybe crossing that 120 mark on HP? Fingers are crossed.

If you don't want to buy the Crushers, don't let Steve show you the difference they make!!

Or better yet, MAKE him show you......you can always do what I did and sell the V&H's.

4570 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 12, 2015, 10:14:09 PM »

Quote from: Jswerve on February 12, 2015, 05:31:06 PM

I really like the curve for the Fullsac C (red) vs. the other 2.

So do I.... Headed down Saturday to pick up the bike and it's suppose to start snowing Sunday.

Probably be another week to share how it runs.

North Star · « **Reply #13 on:** February 12, 2015, 11:23:17 PM »

Thanks for the very useful and very real info Steve- I know everyone appreciates it.

Yes, I think this shows what a difference mufflers can make on the curves.

I'm running 4" Rineharts with my build. My torque curve comes on early and stays pretty flat, which is what I like.

I'm thinking of switching up mufflers though. How do you think the following would perform in comparison to my Rineharts and each other:

Bassani DNT
RCX 4"
Crushers

Thanks.

CircleRacer · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2015, 05:55:50 AM »

Are the mufflers the Mellow Crushers??

Mr. Warlock · « **Reply #15 on:** February 13, 2015, 07:14:20 AM »

I'll take that RED line all day, that penis line means nothing in the whole scheme of things, unless your using it to try and sell something.

JoeVibe · « **Reply #16 on:** February 13, 2015, 08:12:31 AM »

Quote from: CircleRacer on February 13, 2015, 05:55:50 AM

Are the mufflers the Mellow Crushers??

Not sure which Crusher Steve put on this recent build but mine are the Mellows.

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #17 on:** February 13, 2015, 08:22:55 AM »

mellow or non mellow they both make the same power so dont not stress over that. Those are the non mellow.

Undestand even the one with the dip is a freaking rocket ship to ride.. But when you line them all up and say do a roll on at 2750 , not much is going to change be a darn good race.

CircleRacer · « **Reply #18 on:** February 13, 2015, 08:50:14 AM »

Thank you Steve I did not know the numbers were the same between Mellow and Non-Mellow

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #19 on:** February 13, 2015, 09:23:20 AM »

You are welcome, I did testing on both set of mufflers on a 103 with 54 cams.. It had true dual head pipes and I ran both set back to back after I had tuned the bike. It had non mellow as my t est pipes are mellows. Test mufflers have come in handy.

Below is another 113 that we did. I was tuning with the mufflers he brought that had a 2.0 core It was giving me fits. I spent a bunch of time checking things as I had never seen a bike do this. It would start the pull and feel like it was breaking up. I checked all kinds of things it had a killer clutch in I banged in the heaviest springs, swapped plugs and wires .. In the end the muffler was the issue.. It had a 2.0 core and the core was 20+ inches long however it was only louvered for maybe 10 inches at the end.. I swapped out for my test crushers.. and what you see is a back to back.. I would not have believed that a muffler would do that.. I have seen some odd test's but this one was bugger.

Now I will add that the muffler worked very well on the bike as both a 103 and 107 with 555 and 777 woods cams. The final runs are with a woods 777 cam. But once we took the engine to 113 CI the mufflers where not up to the task.. For the record they where not fulsac mufflers. Steve and I did have a long talk about it he saw the graphs and I sent him pictures of the baffle as well.. He did comment that the style of baffle that I had in this muffler was not the best based on his own testing.

FlaHeatWave · « **Reply #20 on:** February 13, 2015, 01:25:06 PM »

Thanks for the "real world" testing and data

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #21 on:** February 13, 2015, 04:31:39 PM »

Just did this one today.. 103 our 577 cam customer did the install bone stock engine cam swap only.. I tuned the Rinehart and then swapped the pipe for the rush 2-1. Goes to show when " you hear about peak numbers " that maybe there really is more to it then just that.

kcbike · « **Reply #22 on:** February 13, 2015, 07:22:46 PM »

Is that standard or wrath ?

grofcvo · « **Reply #23 on:** February 13, 2015, 07:52:46 PM »

Steve , would like to see a X pipe form TH how would compare to others, I am sure will beat all of them ...

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #24 on:** February 14, 2015, 08:09:02 AM »

STD rush 2.5 baffle as for the thunder header Would be a great test have to wait and see who has one on a 110 that we take to 113 with our cam.

Ridgerunr · « **Reply #25 on:** February 20, 2015, 08:34:09 AM »

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on February 13, 2015, 04:31:39 PM

Just did this one today.. 103 our 577 cam customer did the install bone stock engine cam swap only.. I tuned the Rinehart and then swapped the pipe for the rush 2-1. Goes to show when " you hear about peak numbers " that maybe there really is more to it then just that.

Steve, was the Rinehart a 2X1 ? Wondered how they tune.

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #26 on:** February 20, 2015, 09:49:13 AM »

Yes it was a 2-1 pipe on a 103. They tune ok no real issue there but I have to say I have tuned them on everything from 95 inch bikes to 124 and never seen a build yet that I fell in love with the curve.

Ridgerunr · « **Reply #27 on:** February 20, 2015, 07:37:14 PM »

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on February 20, 2015, 09:49:13 AM

Yes it was a 2-1 pipe on a 103. They tune ok no real issue there but I have to say I have tuned them on everything from 95 inch bikes to 124 and never seen a build yet that I fell in love with the curve.

Thanks, what I had heard.

Dr.D · « **Reply #28 on:** February 26, 2015, 12:53:43 PM »

I see Harley riders swapping mufflers all the time based on sound alone and never think a minute about how they might affect the motor. Tuning reports like these ought to make a guy think twice about how important sound is.

Ridgerunr · « **Reply #29 on:** February 27, 2015, 08:14:06 AM »

Steve, would the Rush with a 2" baffle help the low end tq a little? Would be a few decibel's quieter too.

rayson56 · « **Reply #30 on:** April 03, 2015, 11:52:54 PM »

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on February 13, 2015, 08:22:55 AM

mellow or non mellow they both make the same power so dont not stress over that. Those are the non mellow.

Understand even the one with the dip is a freaking rocket ship to ride.. But when you line them all up and say do a roll on at 2750 , not much is going to change be a darn good race.

We are talking the 4" Crusher Mavericks right?

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #31 on:** April 06, 2015, 09:17:06 AM »

no NOT the mavericks , They just a V&H deal that started last year.. They are not the same as a crusher.. That Maverick has a large louvered straight through baffle in a fancy wrapper.

So to be 100% clear crush and mellow crusher..

firehog383 · « **Reply #32 on:** April 16, 2015, 06:08:01 PM »

Any testing with the D&D boss fat cat 2into1?

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #33 on:** April 16, 2015, 06:59:41 PM »

Yes but not with our cam .. I have done one that I posted a while back with a SE 259 cam and it worked very well..

cmashark · « **Reply #34 on:** April 19, 2015, 01:45:13 PM »

Steve,
Have you ran any of the S&S Race Tour mufflers? I have a set in the garage from before installing the 113. I have thought about reinstalling them before heading back to see Chad this fall. I plan on having him run the bike on the dyno again and install a trap door.
I'm thinking I might pick a few more HP if I replace the 4in Dyno tuned Jackpots.

Chris

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #35 on:** April 22, 2015, 01:03:26 PM »

I know that some baffle design is better than others And I have seen so called great mufflers no work very well with larger CI builds. I know that I worked with a 2,0 core from a early jackpot muffler on a 113 and it did not work out at all. But when it was on the 103 or maybe it was a 106 they worked great.

Then you get the claim's by some that "know" what it will do on the X build. When really these guys do not even have a way to tune a EFI bike and all info is second or third hand.

My point is this Until some one try's it you will not know.

Author Topic: Budget 113 builds (Read 11156 times)