Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[ultrafxr]

Don

Just reading your post and wanted to comment. With a 2 into 1, breather and tune my 110 is 98 H/P and 108 Torque. I may be out in left field here but I don't know of many stock 88" or 95" motors with pipes, breather and tuner that show 88 or 95 HP/T respectively. A lot of the 103's have shown 103 HP/T with the same mods but I suspect there have also been some happy dyno numbers out there.

I don't see the 110 as a poor performer in the stock or semi stock (pipes, breather, tuner) mode. I do think the 88", 95" and 103 series have a much higher potential to make power and live than a 110. I think dependability and engine life for the 88", 95" and 103" motor design is much better when hot rodded as opposed to doing the exact same mods to a 110. But I think the same thought process applies to new cars as opposed to older ones and on most machinery produced to compete in todays market.

I don't intend this to serve as to an excuse as to why the 110's will not stand hot rodding but more as an opinion based on todays market and standards that Harley competes in. My 03 Classic and 01 SERG are 95" and the 05 SEEG is 103" and when cruising at 90 mph none of these bikes feel as relaxed as my 110. I'm sure that's mostly chassis and gearing but the 110 doesn't mind and seems happy there also.

But ultimately what do I know, none of my bikes are red.
Wait,,,,,,,,there is hope, I have two red 50 cc scooters.

SBB

   
 

I agree Chip.  My 110 with the six speed seems very content to cruise faster that I want to go.  My '06 SE with the 103 was fine but not nearly as strong as my 110.  My 103 had stage 1 also with the SE 65115-98B slip-ons.  It was fine but the '07 is better.  The 103 with a six speed - I don't know 'cause I never had one.  But I've got no complaints with the power of my 110.

[sadunbar]

Not that I'm a regular defender of the logic (or lack thereof) often prosecuted by the Motor Company.  But they're giving you new heads for some reason.  You've said yourself your oil consumption may or may not be valve guide related.  We've seen several instances of what can happen in these motors with valve/guide failures.  It's not pretty.

You've got more than just a few miles on your bike AJ.  You've got the offer of what is essentially a fresh valve job and a safer guide design versus using the old stuff as is.  Unless I'm missing something it seems there's hardly a decision to be made there.

AJ -

Is you SM suggesting he give you the 0905 enhancement kit to put on a shelf in your garage for potential future use - and a commitment of free installation when the time comes that you need it?  If not, once the two year timeframe for installing the kit expires - you will be out of options.  Even after all the work I did to my motor, I convinced my dealer to give me the 0905 enhancement kit - which I have tucked away on a shelf in my shop.  I don't much care one way or the other about the installation labor, as I would install the kit myself anyway.  But, I wanted the heads.  Maybe I will use them in the future and maybe not, but after the money I spent fixing the Mic's problem, I was fairly insistant they give me the kit of parts they offered up as a solution.  We had to exchange a few adult words with each other first, but they eventually understood my point of view.
Scott

[Twolanerider]

Don

Just reading your post and wanted to comment. With a 2 into 1, breather and tune my 110 is 98 H/P and 108 Torque. I may be out in left field here but I don't know of many stock 88" or 95" motors with pipes, breather and tuner that show 88 or 95 HP/T respectively. A lot of the 103's have shown 103 HP/T with the same mods but I suspect there have also been some happy dyno numbers out there.

I don't see the 110 as a poor performer in the stock or semi stock (pipes, breather, tuner) mode. I do think the 88", 95" and 103 series have a much higher potential to make power and live than a 110. I think dependability and engine life for the 88", 95" and 103" motor design is much better when hot rodded as opposed to doing the exact same mods to a 110. But I think the same thought process applies to new cars as opposed to older ones and on most machinery produced to compete in todays market.

I don't intend this to serve as to an excuse as to why the 110's will not stand hot rodding but more as an opinion based on todays market and standards that Harley competes in. My 03 Classic and 01 SERG are 95" and the 05 SEEG is 103" and when cruising at 90 mph none of these bikes feel as relaxed as my 110. I'm sure that's mostly chassis and gearing but the 110 doesn't mind and seems happy there also.

But ultimately what do I know, none of my bikes are red.
Wait,,,,,,,,there is hope, I have two red 50 cc scooters.

SBB

   
 

Wasn't (or didn't mean to be) implying they're dogs Chip.  Not at all.  Just that in OE trim they're not what they relatively easily could be.  That's the disappointing part. 

Can't even say that it's unexpected.  80s and 88s all needed help.  The 95s too, but perhaps a bit less dramatically.  The 103s with just A/C and a good tune were actually surprisingly decent relatively to their displacement.  And with just cams could be quite good actually.

It's more of a historical beef though rather than just specific to the 110s.  Though they're a fine example of what we've all gotten used to having to do over so many years.  P stands for Pep.  And there's no P in H A R L E Y   D A V I D S O N.  At least not right out of the box.  They're decent.  But we all understand that's about all the credit you can give them unless you're willing to do something to them.

Contemporarily it's easy to blame (with some correctness) EPA sound and emissions requirements and a variety of other factors.  But that wasn't the case historically.  And other manufacturers get better output per displacement while still meeting statutory and administrative emissions requirements.  It's just one of those things we live with...

[grc]

Has anyone determined whether or not there are different part numbers for the new heads? I ask because my head gaskets are not leaking since the last fix. My SM has told me that the heads I have are made in a way that they can be milled at a latter date if so desired and that the new ones cannot. He has said that the new heads are "throw away" heads and are only designed to be changed out in the future. He is recommending that I keep the heads I have and make measurements to insure they are in spec. He is also going to make sure the cylinders are within spec and if not replace them at that time.

As I have mentioned, I am burning about 1 qt of oil every 800 miles. This is either from rings or valve seals. I have been putting off doing this repair until the heads come in. I am next on the list but my SM said it will be another 6-7 weeks because of back order. I have decided to do the SE 251 cams while this is all being done and will be charged for 3 hours labor to do it.

I am very happy with the work that they have done and am just looking for a little advice. (Howie, I know what you're going to say. ~ I am keeping it all stock HD parts.)

There are some who would say Harley is rapidly changing all their parts to "throw away" versions.

Jerry (ultrafxr) explained where the throw away comment comes from, with the new style valve guides only coming in one size, and 2lane correctly noted that you aren't limited to the factory guide for replacement on this head any more than you would be on any other head.  I question why your service manager wants to talk you out of a new pair of heads that will come automatically with the kit they order with your VIN.  What does he plan to do with those heads if he doesn't use them on your bike?

Look at it this way, the new heads will come with new valves, new seals, nice fresh valve faces and seats, new ACR's, and no carbon deposits from burning a quart of oil every 800 miles.  This one is a no-brainer to me, have the new heads installed and keep the old ones for use as paper weights or ash trays.

Jerry

[hard10]

Is you SM suggesting he give you the 0905 enhancement kit to put on a shelf in your garage for potential future use - ...
Scott

I'm not sure Scott. I think he is trying to find a way to get my bike back in running condition without any problems. I guess my question would be why did you opt not to have the heads changed? The ones I have now seem to be fine however you, Jerry, Don, and others have made valid points about seals / carbon build up, etc.
I still have a year and a half to get this done. My only concern is the burning oil which I can document back to September '08. I just wanted to get it all done at once and be done with it. I think they realize that every time I bring it back in, it's going to cost me more $ with the add on's I want.

[sadunbar]

I'm not sure Scott. I think he is trying to find a way to get my bike back in running condition without any problems. I guess my question would be why did you opt not to have the heads changed? The ones I have now seem to be fine however you, Jerry, Don, and others have made valid points about seals / carbon build up, etc.
I still have a year and a half to get this done. My only concern is the burning oil which I can document back to September '08. I just wanted to get it all done at once and be done with it. I think they realize that every time I bring it back in, it's going to cost me more $ with the add on's I want.

I didn't replace my heads because as part of rebuilding my motor, I had extensive work done to them by Cycle Rama...  Had my heads still been stock, I would have replaced them...

Another consideration for you is  - if and when you sell your bike - potential buyers are liable to ask whether or not you had the enhancement done to your motor.  If a potential buyer was informed enough to ask the question - he probably is hoping the answer to be yes....

[SBB]

My only concern is the burning oil which I can document back to September '08.

Must have been that ride when you were trying to keep up with Nancy!
Sorry buddy, should have told you that wasn't happening!

 

[hard10]

...Another consideration for you is  - if and when you sell your bike - potential buyers are liable to ask whether or not you had the enhancement done to your motor.  If a potential buyer was informed enough to ask the question - he probably is hoping the answer to be yes....

Already considered and acknowledged. This is the reason why I want to keep everything H-D stock.

Must have been that ride when you were trying to keep up with Nancy!

Now you tell me. 

[gremlush]

Let me give you MY take on the 110" before gunsmoke comes on. The cams are KILLING these motors , period ! EPA cams !  Its not so much the heads , although ,the ports and % of valve to seat are TOO BIG , but the cams are holding these motors back  AND making too much comp. I put in a Andrews 32H and WHAT a difference ! Before ,when you shut the motor off,it was like turning off a light , dead stop. NOW ,the motor free wheels when you shut it off. Before, I checked head temp in summer ,after a highway ride , rear 325 ,front 275 ,  HIGHWAY ,not in town ! NOW , I have to shut off one of the BIG fans on the dyno to get the heads to 220. HUGE DIF .  S.E. book says 235 duration on the ex. for the 255s cams. Try 219 !!!!!  I think I hear 'festis'. Dewey   SFFS

[skyhook]

i agree with gremlush...lots of power to be had on our 110's with headwork, compression, cams, t/body and big injectors...i got 115hp/115tq sae on a stingy dyno...195# compression, added timing and it still runs cooler than stock...11k miles and no leaks or signs of crank problems