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[hard10]

Has anyone determined whether or not there are different part numbers for the new heads? I ask because my head gaskets are not leaking since the last fix. My SM has told me that the heads I have are made in a way that they can be milled at a latter date if so desired and that the new ones cannot. He has said that the new heads are "throw away" heads and are only designed to be changed out in the future. He is recommending that I keep the heads I have and make measurements to insure they are in spec. He is also going to make sure the cylinders are within spec and if not replace them at that time.

As I have mentioned, I am burning about 1 qt of oil every 800 miles. This is either from rings or valve seals. I have been putting off doing this repair until the heads come in. I am next on the list but my SM said it will be another 6-7 weeks because of back order. I have decided to do the SE 251 cams while this is all being done and will be charged for 3 hours labor to do it.

I am very happy with the work that they have done and am just looking for a little advice. (Howie, I know what you're going to say. ~ I am keeping it all stock HD parts.)

[sleepybare]

I just went through the head replacement process. When the heads were still packaged I picked them up from the dealer and had them decked 50 thousands, ported and polished. I additionally had the jugs honed and new rings installed along with the cams being changed from the stock 255's to the 251's with adjustable push rods. (Hoist input) I now have a bit over 1000 miles and have no problems with the motor. I am running a SERT, Ness Big Sucker, VH true duals and am getting about 95 HP and 106 lb of torque at the last dyno.....So I would check with your dealer again about the new heads verses the old head situation. Hope this helps

[ultrafxr]

AJ, I don't have the moco bulletin here in my office but you can probably find it by searching the website.  But my recollection regarding the heads being 'throw away' had to do with the new keeper on the valve guides.  Moco states that they will not offer oversize guides so if wear excessively only option is to replace head. 

[ultrafxr]

Be interested to see how things go long term with the cam change.  I elected to keep mine stock other than the Fat Cats, RYO air cleaner and SERT tune.  I got the extd service contract and was leery of making any more mods in case I need it in the future.  I'm getting good numbers in the 90s on hp & torque and it runs plenty strong for me as it.  Just looking for longevity.  I know, lol with the 110 but hope does spring eternal.

[hard10]

AJ, I don't have the moco bulletin here in my office but you can probably find it by searching the website.  But my recollection regarding the heads being 'throw away' had to do with the new keeper on the valve guides.  Moco states that they will not offer oversize guides so if wear excessively only option is to replace head. 

This is what the SM has said. They are standing by me in this ordeal and am very grateful of that. I have had the oil problem since the fall when I was originally to have the heads done and are covering that.

[Twolanerider]

AJ, I don't have the moco bulletin here in my office but you can probably find it by searching the website.  But my recollection regarding the heads being 'throw away' had to do with the new keeper on the valve guides.  Moco states that they will not offer oversize guides so if wear excessively only option is to replace head. 

If lack of a factory supplied oversized valve guide is the only concern there's not much to be afraid of.  Many other suppliers for valve guides including having some cut to given specs on demand.  The cost isn't even too frightening should such have to be done.

Aside from that can't imagine much difference.  It's just a casting after all.  And the heads' geometry must be staying the same as the upgrade doesn't include a new map.

Be interested to see how things go long term with the cam change.  I elected to keep mine stock other than the Fat Cats, RYO air cleaner and SERT tune.  I got the extd service contract and was leery of making any more mods in case I need it in the future.  I'm getting good numbers in the 90s on hp & torque and it runs plenty strong for me as it.  Just looking for longevity.  I know, lol with the 110 but hope does spring eternal.

Remarks like these make me both grimace and grin a bit Jerry.  The things the MoCo has led us by the nose to accept and expect.  The gentlemen you responded to was citing a 110 cubic inch engine that had just had it's heads decked and changed cams for a better running engine.  You've done a bit less but still spent some real coin to also get a better running engine.  And both of you are pleased with having pushed the engine up to HP output reaching the mid to high 90s.  And we all accept it as being, if not ok, at least satisfactory. 

The old 95s will do as much or more with pipes and a cam change.  Put different cams in the 103s and they are both earlier and stronger.  Yet the MoCo can't get a 110 cubic engine even close to square.  And they proclaim the engine as if they're proud of it....

[hard10]

If lack of a factory supplied oversized valve guide is the only concern there's not much to be afraid of.  Many other suppliers for valve guides including having some cut to given specs on demand.  The cost isn't even too frightening should such have to be done.

Aside from that can't imagine much difference.  It's just a casting after all.  And the heads' geometry must be staying the same as the upgrade doesn't include a new map...

What the SM is saying is that the heads that I have are fine and not leaking so why would I want to change them? He claims I'm better off keeping the 'good' ones that I have as they are not causing any problems.

[Twolanerider]

What the SM is saying is that the heads that I have are fine and not leaking so why would I want to change them? He claims I'm better off keeping the 'good' ones that I have as they are not causing any problems.

Not that I'm a regular defender of the logic (or lack thereof) often prosecuted by the Motor Company.  But they're giving you new heads for some reason.  You've said yourself your oil consumption may or may not be valve guide related.  We've seen several instances of what can happen in these motors with valve/guide failures.  It's not pretty.

You've got more than just a few miles on your bike AJ.  You've got the offer of what is essentially a fresh valve job and a safer guide design versus using the old stuff as is.  Unless I'm missing something it seems there's hardly a decision to be made there.

[ultrafxr]

If lack of a factory supplied oversized valve guide is the only concern there's not much to be afraid of.  Many other suppliers for valve guides including having some cut to given specs on demand.  The cost isn't even too frightening should such have to be done.

Aside from that can't imagine much difference.  It's just a casting after all.  And the heads' geometry must be staying the same as the upgrade doesn't include a new map.

Remarks like these make me both grimace and grin a bit Jerry.  The things the MoCo has led us by the nose to accept and expect.  The gentlemen you responded to was citing a 110 cubic inch engine that had just had it's heads decked and changed cams for a better running engine.  You've done a bit less but still spent some real coin to also get a better running engine.  And both of you are pleased with having pushed the engine up to HP output reaching the mid to high 90s.  And we all accept it as being, if not ok, at least satisfactory. 

The old 95s will do as much or more with pipes and a cam change.  Put different cams in the 103s and they are both earlier and stronger.  Yet the MoCo can't get a 110 cubic engine even close to square.  And they proclaim the engine as if they're proud of it....

Understand Don.  My motor is putting out high 90s hp and over 100 tq but it is not tuned to max because I had tuner back off to save some modicum of gas mileage.  I did all this mainly to cool it down and not really needing to push it to the limit.  I know I could get more but I'm satisfied as is.

[Twolanerider]

Understand Don.  My motor is putting out high 90s hp and over 100 tq but it is not tuned to max because I had tuner back off to save some modicum of gas mileage.  I did all this mainly to cool it down and not really needing to push it to the limit.  I know I could get more but I'm satisfied as is.

Understand Jerry.  And finding one's happy place between tuning, performance, economy and just general "feel" is always important.  Probably the most important of all the parameters that should be chased.  I just find it disconcerting and dissatisfying that a 110 cubic inch engine is designed such that to begin it's actually very poor performing engine yet is marketed as the cream of the crop.

[Hoist!]

Understand Jerry.  And finding one's happy place between tuning, performance, economy and just general "feel" is always important.  Probably the most important of all the parameters that should be chased.  I just find it disconcerting and dissatisfying that a 110 cubic inch engine is designed such that to begin it's actually very poor performing engine yet is marketed as the cream of the crop.

Well imagine how those that bought em feel!

Used to feel anyway! They run MUCH better sans HD parts in it! STF!

Hoist!

[Twolanerider]

Well imagine how those that bought em feel!

Used to feel anyway! They run MUCH better sans HD parts in it! STF!

Hoist!

Chit, you don't even have the factory air in the tires man .

[Hoist!]

Chit, you don't even have the factory air in the tires man .

HeHe!!! I'm lookin at that racing N2 for tires now !

Hoist!

[Twolanerider]

HeHe!!! I'm lookin at that racing N2 for tires now !

Hoist!

What about methane?  And a little remote operated bleeder on the valve stem.  Then when you feel like giving someone chit they wouldn't know if it was you or the bike .

[SBB]

Understand Jerry.  And finding one's happy place between tuning, performance, economy and just general "feel" is always important.  Probably the most important of all the parameters that should be chased.  I just find it disconcerting and dissatisfying that a 110 cubic inch engine is designed such that to begin it's actually very poor performing engine yet is marketed as the cream of the crop.

Don

Just reading your post and wanted to comment. With a 2 into 1, breather and tune my 110 is 98 H/P and 108 Torque. I may be out in left field here but I don't know of many stock 88" or 95" motors with pipes, breather and tuner that show 88 or 95 HP/T respectively. A lot of the 103's have shown 103 HP/T with the same mods but I suspect there have also been some happy dyno numbers out there.

I don't see the 110 as a poor performer in the stock or semi stock (pipes, breather, tuner) mode. I do think the 88", 95" and 103 series have a much higher potential to make power and live than a 110. I think dependability and engine life for the 88", 95" and 103" motor design is much better when hot rodded as opposed to doing the exact same mods to a 110. But I think the same thought process applies to new cars as opposed to older ones and on most machinery produced to compete in todays market.

I don't intend this to serve as to an excuse as to why the 110's will not stand hot rodding but more as an opinion based on todays market and standards that Harley competes in. My 03 Classic and 01 SERG are 95" and the 05 SEEG is 103" and when cruising at 90 mph none of these bikes feel as relaxed as my 110. I'm sure that's mostly chassis and gearing but the 110 doesn't mind and seems happy there also.

But ultimately what do I know, none of my bikes are red.
Wait,,,,,,,,there is hope, I have two red 50 cc scooters.

SBB