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[Steve Cole]

This is all to common and I think it comes from the dealership tech getting warranty time to do an update. We have been making ECM programming equipment since 1988 and have seen this many many times over the years. This is just one of many reasons we have done what we have at TTS. We put the customer in control of what does and doesn't get programmed into the ECM.

[hdctss]

bottom line is the dealers were emailed a letter stating if the bike has a warranty issue they can deny service until the bike is returned to stock...the motor company is tired of having dealers struggle to fix problems caused by something that was not a harley street use part...now this seems kind of crappy, but that is the way it is.  i think your harley dealer will work with you depending on your relationship, but they don't have to if they don't want to
my cars are the same way...the dealer knows it is tuned and they do not upgrade the ecm without talking to me first...got a pretty good dealer there. 

[SBB]

the motor company is tired of having dealers struggle to fix problems caused by something that was not a harley street use part...now this seems kind of crappy, but that is the way it is.

Tired? Really?
What about the dedicated Core Harley customers? How many of them are tired?
Speaking of tired, if it wasn't for my great dealer in Charlotte there wouldn't be a 110 in my garage.
Tired of changing lifters, tired of tires cupping, tired of 945 lb. bikes. I'm not sure why as I grow older the bikes get heavier.
But, as it stands, I'm done. On to more important priorities. If I need work or something major done on the bikes it's the Harley shop here, Roscoe Illinois, or San Leandro California.


SBB

[Twolanerider]

bottom line is the dealers were emailed a letter stating if the bike has a warranty issue they can deny service until the bike is returned to stock...the motor company is tired of having dealers struggle to fix problems caused by something that was not a harley street use part...now this seems kind of crappy, but that is the way it is.

This makes perfect sense actually.  Eminently logical.  After all, they can already just barely (and too often not even that) fix their own crap.  The last thing they need is anything else going on.

[robinswl]

I took heed of your warnings today when I took my CVO into the dealer for some warranty work. I brought my tuner and laptop with me to restore the factory tune down the street from the dealer before I took it in. Since I had to ride for about an hour from my house to the dealer, I decided to try the vtune feature to update the calibration I obtained from Fullsac. While I was waiting for my bike to get fixed I was in the waiting room reviewing the data that I collected using my laptop. After I left the dealer I downloaded the new tune into my ECM, and collected more data on my way home, concentrating on the areas that I didn't have covered on my way to the dealer. The bike runs great. Time to collect some hours in the seat before I attempt any additional tuning. I also tried the flight recorder feature so I didn't have my PC actively collecting data while tooling down the highway. It works great!

[grc]

I am smiling as I got in today after the weekend to listen to the messages on the shop phone..  Customer has Super tuner on his bike we tuned a t dual ex system with a 255 cam. No big deal guy is not a computer type person.. He is at HD for the free lunch deal and ride wins a free oil change.. So he has oil change done ,.. they re flashed the ECM ........... They cannot tell him why but it was a standard checkup and they where helping him as it was N/C   

So Customer is  hopping mad. I am going to show him how to reload his map.  Not stating that one tuner is better but this is a funny example of what the dealer can and does do..  Dealer has no reason to be re flashing anything unless you are asking for that service.

These get used in the car world. Some even have a locking device

That's not necessarily true these days Steve.  In the car business our dealerships were instructed to automatically check VIN's against our database of known recalls, product issues, available updates, etc., and to then take care of those items even though the customer didn't come in specifically for those things.  We felt it was good customer service, and it also helped us get recalls off the books and improve customer satisfaction if the update improved the way the vehicle drove or the infotainment system operated or whatever.  So I can see how a Harley dealership might do the same thing.  Not that I believe there are that many Harley dealers who really give a chit about customer satisfaction, but there are some.  And of course there are others who would do it just so they could submit a claim and get a few bucks from H-D to apply any updates.  When business is slow in the car business or the bike business, claims tend to go up.  Always seemed a bit strange how that worked.

I personally like the idea of a permanent label at the data connector advising the service person to NOT flash the ECM without consulting the customer, or some such verbiage.  Then if they do it anyway and screw something up, they can pay to fix whatever they screwed up.  I think I'd also write it in on the work order and get a copy before letting them work on the bike.

Jerry

[tjablons]

These get used in the car world. Some even have a locking device
[/quote]

Maybe some enterprising guy can make some of these up to fit the Canbus port for us...

[Steve Cole]

These get used in the car world. Some even have a locking device


Maybe some enterprising guy can make some of these up to fit the Canbus port for us...

TTS already did We just did it a little different but it stops the problem dead in its tracks.

[porthole]

That's not necessarily true these days Steve.  In the car business our dealerships were instructed to automatically check VIN's against our database of known recalls, product issues, available updates, etc., and to then take care of those items even though the customer didn't come in specifically for those things.  We felt it was good customer service, and it also helped us get recalls off the books and improve customer satisfaction if the update improved the way the vehicle drove or the infotainment system operated or whatever.  So I can see how a Harley dealership might do the same thing.  Not that I believe there are that many Harley dealers who really give a chit about customer satisfaction, but there are some.  And of course there are others who would do it just so they could submit a claim and get a few bucks from H-D to apply any updates.  When business is slow in the car business or the bike business, claims tend to go up.  Always seemed a bit strange how that worked.

I personally like the idea of a permanent label at the data connector advising the service person to NOT flash the ECM without consulting the customer, or some such verbiage.  Then if they do it anyway and screw something up, they can pay to fix whatever they screwed up.  I think I'd also write it in on the work order and get a copy before letting them work on the bike.

Jerry

?


Jerry - what about if your customer specifically requests no re-flashing?

My truck went in for service last year and I specifically requested no transmission flash. There is a known problem with 2011+ 6.7 diesels and trans shifting. My truck had zero issues.
It was a known fact that the re-flash could degrade mileage.

Verbal request - added to the service order an dI had the writer hand write it as well.

Of course the tech re-flashed the PCM.
My mileage dropped while towing from an average of 11.5 to 9 - 9.5