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[DCFIREMANN]

Let's see, 2 guys with great relationships with Zippers, raving about TMAT vs most people with problems, who can't get the time of day from them. Hmmm, I sense some bias here! My bike is now running cool. It gets great mileage. It does not ping. And it runs like a mofo! All that without a TMAT. I guess there are other solutions then to bow down to the Zippers gods! Hoist!

Hoist I would never call them THE ZIPPERS GODS!!!!! I know a lot of people have had some issues with the customer service over there. They are having GROWING PAINS to say the least. I also know first hand of some that have problems that were not caused by Zippers but they come on the boards yelling about how bad the products and service is. So to each their own. I for one am very pleased and I know a lot more that are pleased as well.

The Thunder Max is 10 years ahead of it's time. I for one think it is the best for EFI tuning. The one problem is not very many tuners are comfortable with working with the unit. Mainly because they don't know it. It is now being marketed by Drag and I think CCI. So there must be something to it or they would not sell it on a worlwide basis

When you do the volume that Zippers does you will get some complaints. It is expected. I am just wondering why the customer service went south!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[grc]

SERT, on two bikes.  Tuning the ECM, or getting a tunable replacement, allows for better tuning by controlling more parameters.  As other said, though, better to get a good piggyback-based tune than a crappy ECM tune.  It's harder to find a good SERT tuner, IMO.

bc

bc,

My feelings exactly.  Unfortunately, while in theory the SERT is able to alter many more parameters than a PC, it is also harder to tune and takes more time ($$).  And the TMax is only a decent alternative if you live down the street from Zipper's, or happen to live near one of the very small handful of tuners that can deal with it.  So while the PC may be the least sophisticated of those choices, it has a huge user and tuner base for support and has been "gittin' 'er done" for longer than the others have been in existence.

Jerry

[FR8TRN]

I used the PCIII on my first EFI HD, with it installed no matter who Dyno'd it I could never get better than 35mpg and the bike ran ~ok~.  Pulled it off (EFI had Stage I download already) and the bike ran ALOT better and mileage went up to 45mpg.

Second EFI HD I went straight to the SERT, canned map for the 103" CVO worked great and bike got low 40'smpg consistantly.  Switched it over to a TMAT and mpg dropped like a brick, the bike ran like crap, had a real bad hesitation and Zippers could do nothing to get it working right, even with their 575 cams which were suppose to put the power in the mid 2K range but the bike had NOTHING below 3K RPM, my friends stock 88" could pass me doing a roll-on in 5th.  Ended up trading the bike for what I have now (for other reasons), and pulled the TMAT before trading in.

After a decent break-in on the '07 Ultra I installed the TMAT on it, give it another chance.  Worked with Zippers to get a decent map selected for my 2007 with the 103" Stage I installed.  Bike ran a little better than it did before, but had alot of pre-detonation once it got hot.  The only way to get rid of any of it was to retard the timing so far you lost any gain in power.  Worked with Zippers many times trying to resolve, running with the AFR at 13.1 as recommended by Zippers I rode to FL and back on a trip, by the time I got to FL my mufflers were a really pretty color of blue, by the time I got back home the chrome was peeling and pinholes had started to develop.  TMAT came off the next day and went on a shelf, later sold to someone else that REALLY wanted one bad, so he got a good deal.  I picked up a SERT, loaded the "race" map for my setup and the bike is running great again, I've gotten as low as 40mpg and and as high as 47mpg, during a recent 600 mile trip of interstate running (85-90mph) two up and fully loaded, I got 45mpg, no excessive heat, no discoloration on the mufflers and NO pre-detonation.

[Hoist!]

Hoist I would never call them THE ZIPPERS GODS!!!!! I know a lot of people have had some issues with the customer service over there. They are having GROWING PAINS to say the least. I also know first hand of some that have problems that were not caused by Zippers but they come on the boards yelling about how bad the products and service is. So to each their own. I for one am very pleased and I know a lot more that are pleased as well.

The Thunder Max is 10 years ahead of it's time. I for one think it is the best for EFI tuning. The one problem is not very many tuners are comfortable with working with the unit. Mainly because they don't know it. It is now being marketed by Drag and I think CCI. So there must be something to it or they would not sell it on a worlwide basis

When you do the volume that Zippers does you will get some complaints. It is expected. I am just wondering why the customer service went south!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Hey Mike, How ya doing? I'm not knocking the TMax. I'm told it's a very good ECM on it's own. I have issues with the promises made with the AT. They do great marketing and that's why it's sold on such a worldwide basis. And their advertising $$$ get them good reviews in the bike rags. That's how magazines work. Cars, bikes, stereos, cameras, etc. Lotta advertising means good reviews. I take them rags w/a grain of salt! They market it like all you do is put it on with their map in it, supposedly for your setup, and off you go. There's not one guy here that hasn't had to fiddle with it. And since you bought it to save going to a real tuner, you keep fiddling with it to justify not paying for a real tune. And since we all know that no 2 engines are the same, there's no way it can auto tune if the map starts off incorrectly, which chances are it will. And since they made many maps in the winter, they don't adjust to the drastic changes in summer's hot and humid conditions, most are pinging and get crappy gas mileage. Nothing beats a great tune. PERIOD. Even Ronnie, with his computer savviness and after all his fiddling, went to Zippers and found that it still wasn't correct. I know, intake and exhaust leaks, etc. But the AT hid that. What's so great about that. If you have those issues you want to fix it, not mask it. Another system wouldn't run properly and you'd know there's a problem. I know folks who are very happy w/the TMax after they ripped out the AT and had the bike properly tuned. For all the $$$ we have in these things, skimping on a proper tune is foolish IMO. Then abandoning these customers is totally unacceptable, and that alone warrants me not to do business with a Co. like that. If all we heard were great stories about how Zippers went out of their way to fix each and every person's issues and left everone happy in the end, that might change my perception of the product. But since they leave you hanging like they already did you a favor, and don't want to be bothered anymore, they can keep all their products. And bolting cams in made specifically for a SE 103 doesn't indicate cutting edge technology in my book. For all those happy with their Zippers products, I'm happy for you. But I know so many more who aren't!
Hoist!

[Steve_G]

Thanks Hoist!  I just learned how to view the poll!   ???I haven't voted yet because I am in between bikes.  -Steve

[DCFIREMANN]

Hey Mike, How ya doing? I'm not knocking the TMax. I'm told it's a very good ECM on it's own. I have issues with the promises made with the AT. They do great marketing and that's why it's sold on such a worldwide basis. And their advertising $$$ get them good reviews in the bike rags. That's how magazines work. Cars, bikes, stereos, cameras, etc. Lotta advertising means good reviews. I take them rags w/a grain of salt! They market it like all you do is put it on with their map in it, supposedly for your setup, and off you go. There's not one guy here that hasn't had to fiddle with it. And since you bought it to save going to a real tuner, you keep fiddling with it to justify not paying for a real tune. And since we all know that no 2 engines are the same, there's no way it can auto tune if the map starts off incorrectly, which chances are it will. And since they made many maps in the winter, they don't adjust to the drastic changes in summer's hot and humid conditions, most are pinging and get crappy gas mileage. Nothing beats a great tune. PERIOD. Even Ronnie, with his computer savviness and after all his fiddling, went to Zippers and found that it still wasn't correct. I know, intake and exhaust leaks, etc. But the AT hid that. What's so great about that. If you have those issues you want to fix it, not mask it. Another system wouldn't run properly and you'd know there's a problem. I know folks who are very happy w/the TMax after they ripped out the AT and had the bike properly tuned. For all the $$$ we have in these things, skimping on a proper tune is foolish IMO. Then abandoning these customers is totally unacceptable, and that alone warrants me not to do business with a Co. like that. If all we heard were great stories about how Zippers went out of their way to fix each and every person's issues and left everone happy in the end, that might change my perception of the product. But since they leave you hanging like they already did you a favor, and don't want to be bothered anymore, they can keep all their products. And bolting cams in made specifically for a SE 103 doesn't indicate cutting edge technology in my book. For all those happy with their Zippers products, I'm happy for you. But I know so many more who aren't!
Hoist!

HOIST I have to agree with you. Some people have had one hell of a time with the TM. I still do not have AT hooked up to mine and untill they get it right I am very happy with the way mine runs.

Be Safe

THE DAWG