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[grc]

Being in the Quality Control field, I can tell as a you about the current trend in the automotive market.  As the big three's margins errode due to rebates, cash back incentives and rising medical insurance, they have seen fit to go after the sub-component supplies for give backs.  That is, they expect these supplies to reduce the component part price by 5-10% year over year throughout the contact period.  

As a result the component supplies are forced to reduce costs as well.  This can come in several forms, with the most common being a cut in part quality.  I believe that HD is in a similar situation with reduced sales and margins.  Are components cheaper....you bet.

I too am employed in the QC field in the auto industry, and can vouch for the fact that the manufacturers have been beating the suppliers for year-over-year price reductions.  This has been going on for many years, however, not just during the most recent problem years.  The theory is that we should always be able to improve our processes to gain productivity improvements and reduce costs.  The reality is that it is easier for many to just cheapen the product and skimp on quality.  Let's face it, many people now would rather take the easy way instead of the right way.

This may have something to do with how the MoCo has let quality slip, but I've noticed this trend for much longer than just the most recent year.  The previous years have been records for sales and revenues, so they couldn't blame the poor quality on poverty.  This has more to do with the mind-set of management, and won't be fixed until management is forced to fix it by the customers and stockholders.

Jerry

[TB]

grc,

Well said, and I fully agree.  Appears to be a problem that has been building for sometime

I wonder what HD's overall warranty R's/1000 are currently running at?  (Repairs per 1000 vehicles)  I get the rath of FOMOCO when our components are anything over 0.9 R/1000.

TB

[grc]

grc,

I wonder what HD's overall warranty R's/1000 are currently running at?  (Repairs per 1000 vehicles)  I get the rath of FOMOCO when our components are anything over 0.9 R/1000.

TB

TB,

If your experiences are anything like mine, their R/1000 number is much lower than it should be.  So far all but one item I've asked the dealer to repair has not been repaired, and everything else that was repaired I've done myself.  Of course those repairs don't get into the statistics. There are many of us who make most of our own repairs, rather than deal with incompetent BS at the dealership.  I always love the ol' "they all do that, it's normal", especially from some clown who has been working on bikes for all of 2 months.  

Jerry

[TB]

Funny you say that.  I get the same kind of response too.  Wonder if they send them to some kind of training for this?  You know, kinda like the way Hooter's girls have that special way of leaning over a table....they must train them all the same way.  Anyway, I digress.....he is in a constant state of denial.....or maybe he is just blind and deaf.  

The last service manager they had that actually listened to your complaint and tried to address it ....well, he only lasted about a month.  You can bet that the number of claims and hours charged are one of the metrics that the owner of the dealership keeps tabs on.

[Twolanerider]

TB,

If your experiences are anything like mine, their R/1000 number is much lower than it should be.  So far all but one item I've asked the dealer to repair has not been repaired, and everything else that was repaired I've done myself.  Of course those repairs don't get into the statistics. There are many of us who make most of our own repairs, rather than deal with incompetent BS at the dealership.  I always love the ol' "they all do that, it's normal", especially from some clown who has been working on bikes for all of 2 months.  

Jerry

That's something I too am guilty of (and are quite a few others from what you read).  Recognizing that in the long term to you cutting your note to spite your face doesn't make it much easier to just say "ah, screw it" and handle the near term issue yourself.  It's sad that working with so many of the dealerships is so frustrating.  At least now it seems that, perhaps, their customer base is flagging just a bit.

The MoCo itself has been in a place for years that policing or evening punishing dealerships wasn't that big a deal.  They were already selling everything the could manufacture and were getting complaints because they didn't build more.  In that environment your dealer network (i.e., the corporations real customer) is Midas.  

However, when sales start to finally flag and HD is forced to either blame itself or blame it's dealers the corporation's arrogance may actually finally begin to serve the customers a bit.  Because given the two choses of placing blame initially on themselves or alternatively on the dealer network they'll likely start with the dealers.  Then, perhaps, the dealers will pay more attention to a good job for each of us.

[harley56]

I read an article some years back, where Bleustein expressed some concern about Dealers adding $4-5-6000.00 bumps to the MSRP, which they justified, as a "Scarcity Premium."  He stated the MoCo advised against this practice.  "Advised" was too soft a term, for these greedy bastards.  There should have been a memorandum from the MoCo's Dealer Operations, stating that "Excessive pricing will not be tolerated.  Failure to comply will result in the termination of your Dealer Agreement."  Now, the chickens have come home to roost.  Personally, I hope the values go through the floor!  That way I could buy me 3 or 4 more, and ride the hell out of 'em.  That day is fast approaching, too.  The MoCo has failed its stockholders, and us, by not keeping a tight enough grip on the greedy bastards that represent them.  There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD      

For what it's worth, Bleustein once came to an announcement meeting ready to roll out an allocation system for motorcycles that would reward those dealers that sold at MSRP.  Found out that this was illegal.  The MOCO absolutely cannot dictate pricing, or many manufacturer's, not just Harley would have done just that.  Dealers that premium price claim you don't help us when supply and demand favors discounting, don't tell us what to do when it favors premiums.   Ourselves, we were msrp and our used bikes ended up being more than our new because we were paying more for them than the new ones.  It was the only way we could have inventory as most models were pre-sold months in advance.  I agree, pricing is and always will be an issue.  I have to admit it was frustrating as a dealer watching people buy a bike and later finding out that their sole intention was to re-sell it at a profit.  Harley can either build too few and have some dealers premium price, build too many and witness dealer discounting, or build just the right amount - and that just doesn't happen.  

[fxdjerry]

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/02june05_harleysuit.htm


If this was posted allready sorry for the duplication. Looks like some stock holders are not happy.

[grc]

For what it's worth, Bleustein once came to an announcement meeting ready to roll out an allocation system for motorcycles that would reward those dealers that sold at MSRP.  Found out that this was illegal.  The MOCO absolutely cannot dictate pricing, or many manufacturer's, not just Harley would have done just that.  Dealers that premium price claim you don't help us when supply and demand favors discounting, don't tell us what to do when it favors premiums.   Ourselves, we were msrp and our used bikes ended up being more than our new because we were paying more for them than the new ones.  It was the only way we could have inventory as most models were pre-sold months in advance.  I agree, pricing is and always will be an issue.  I have to admit it was frustrating as a dealer watching people buy a bike and later finding out that their sole intention was to re-sell it at a profit.  Harley can either build too few and have some dealers premium price, build too many and witness dealer discounting, or build just the right amount - and that just doesn't happen.  

Absolutely correct.  Those who are as old as I am probably remember back when Sony first became big in the American TV market - you could by a Sony at any retail establishment you wanted, at the exact price Sony dictated.  No one was allowed to discount.  I forget the term that was used for this, but there were many manufacturers that used this type of agreement to control pricing.  Eventually, our legal system addressed this and it is no longer legal (restraint of trade).  Additional laws were put in place specifically for vehicle manufacturers to dictate how they may and may not treat the holders of their franchises.  It is now very difficult and time consuming to terminate a dealer for anything other than obvious fraud, failure to pay their bills, etc.

If the current trend in the motorcycle market continues, with decreasing sales and discounted prices, we will see a certain amount of fallout in the dealer ranks.  Those who got into the business to make a fast buck overcharging for scarce product will sink quickly.  Those who have been in the business for the long haul and who have developed excellent parts, accessory, and service operations will survive.  I've seen this happen in the auto industry in the past.  Unfortunately, this doesn't help any of us in the short-term.

Jerry

[TB]

Several years ago, when there were long waiting lists for bikes, I  talked to the local dealer about where he makes his money.  He indicated that his sales of motorcloths and accessories is many times greater than that of actual motorcycle sales  (and the margins are much better as well).  From what I have heard, they live and die by the t-shirt, etc. and not necessarily the bikes.

[HUBBARD]

Several years ago, when there were long waiting lists for bikes, I  talked to the local dealer about where he makes his money.  He indicated that his sales of motorcloths and accessories is many times greater than that of actual motorcycle sales  (and the margins are much better as well).  From what I have heard, they live and die by the t-shirt, etc. and not necessarily the bikes.

Yeah, 'er 'uh, TB,
 They'll lie to you about other things, too.  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] Later--HUBBARD

[hd2003-se2005]

Yeah, 'er 'uh, TB,
  They'll lie to you about other things, too.  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] Later--HUBBARD

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And Tater's not in the truck business.  He  makes his money from T-shirt sales!




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[Twolanerider]

I wish I had a job that made money from t-shirts.  Wet t-shirts....

[spydglide]

I wish I had a job that made money from t-shirts.  Wet t-shirts....

Now this thread is getting 'on topic' and interesting!  Har!   [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]  spyder

[Coolbreeze]

Well...  now that we are FINALLY on-topic......

[smiley=worthless.gif]   [smiley=thumbsup.gif]