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Author Topic: Moisture Issue???  (Read 2863 times)

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Keats

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Re: Moisture Issue???
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2009, 10:13:39 PM »

This was covered somewhere before, but the real culpit in damage has little to do with humidity as it does with fluxuation in temperatures.

you can keep in 100 deg or 20 deg temp and both will be fine if temp (air) doesn't change.

damage is not done in lowering temps as in rising temps.  bike gets cold in unheated shed, sun warms shed and warmer air hits cold bike and water in air condenses.

That causes damage.  maintain 50 deg temp in insulated shed (50 deg is often important in a temperate zone) and cover concrete floor with plastic. keeps moisture

from coming up through ground.

or keep bike temp always greater than air temp.










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miker

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Re: Moisture Issue???
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2009, 07:27:58 AM »

Thats what dewpoint temperature is...the temperature at which ambient humidity condenses..
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Hugh Janis

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Re: Moisture Issue???
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2009, 07:51:14 AM »

Sounds like cheap Styrofoam panels inside the shed with a light bulb to warm it will do the trick!  :2vrolijk_21:
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miker

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Re: Moisture Issue???
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2009, 07:54:56 AM »

Basically anything to maintain a temperature above the dewpoint...incandescent light bulbs are better heaters than they are darkness absorbers.

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Keats

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Re: Moisture Issue???
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2009, 07:41:05 PM »

Thats what dewpoint temperature is...the temperature at which ambient humidity condenses..

You are correct , but almost no one knows how to calculate dewpoints without a chart.

Dewponts are all over the map with variation of barometric pressure, humidity levels and air temperature.

Not many really think that 70 deg F surface temp is a problem but a dewpoint of 74 deg it is, and with 90 deg F ambient temp and 60% relative humidity you get a dewpoint of 74 deg F.

any temp under the dewpoint is a problem.

Once relative humidity reaches 100% then the dewpoint is the same as the air temperature.

Dropping humidity or raising temp relative to air temp is the only way to stay away from the dewpoint

As Hubbard would say, There end th the lesson

sorry for the soapbox

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Hoist!

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Re: Moisture Issue???
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2009, 07:52:19 PM »

You are correct , but almost no one knows how to calculate dewpoints without a chart.

Dewponts are all over the map with variation of barometric pressure, humidity levels and air temperature.

Not many really think that 70 deg F surface temp is a problem but a dewpoint of 74 deg it is, and with 90 deg F ambient temp and 60% relative humidity you get a dewpoint of 74 deg F.

any temp under the dewpoint is a problem.

Once relative humidity reaches 100% then the dewpoint is the same as the air temperature.

Dropping humidity or raising temp relative to air temp is the only way to stay away from the dewpoint

As Hubbard would say, There end th the lesson

sorry for the soapbox



You measure Wet Bulb Temp and Dry Bulb Temps and plot it on a Psychrometric Chart. Once you know 2 values at that condition of the air, you can determine all the properties of the air at that point. It'll tell you Dew Point, RH, Grains of Moisture, enthalpy, and some other things. From there you can see how much moisture is in the air, and you'll be able to figure out how much moisture you'll need to remove when you plot the new condition you're trying to achieve. Then you can properly size your Dehumidification Equipment. You size it for your worst condition, and have a humidistat control the equipment to maintain the condition you want to achieve ;)

Hoist! 8)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 07:59:57 PM by Hoist! »
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Re: Moisture Issue???
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2009, 08:21:56 PM »

You can measure these conditions with an instrument called a Sling Psychrometer.

Taylor 1330PJ Sling Psychrometer

Shades of science class! The Taylor 1330PJ Sling Psychrometer is a compact, streamlined instrument that measures the wet and dry bulb temperatures of the surrounding air and allows for immediate conversion of these readings to relative humidity percentage on the slide-rule scale on the case. Relative humidity is a ratio of the amount of water vapor in the air to the amount that would be present if the air were saturated. The term "relative" is used because warmer air can hold more water vapor than cold air. Thus, at the same relative humidity, the actual amount of water vapor in the air at, say, 20°F is considerably less than the amount of water vapor in the air at 90°F. With Permacolor® red liquid fill instead of mercury in its two thermometers, the 1330PJ is environmentally safe.

Hoist! 8)
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Keats

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Re: Moisture Issue???
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2009, 09:13:30 PM »

Howie, that takes me back a few years when I use to service a/c units. I kept my sling just to prove I had one, but seldom used.
You cannot make up numbers if you do not even have the instrument.   :nixweiss:
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Re: Moisture Issue???
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2009, 01:03:40 AM »

Howie, that takes me back a few years when I use to service a/c units. I kept my sling just to prove I had one, but seldom used.
You cannot make up numbers if you do not even have the instrument.   :nixweiss:


Most would never know what numbers they even need to look for a problem like this Jeff. But hopefully this will give Randy the info he needs to do this wcientifically and properly, instead of guessing. Isn't that what we all want to do with our bikes too? Get it right the very first time. I've been an HVAC Engineer for almost 30 years, so I'm pretty good to go there. Only been doin Harleys for about 20, and I'm still tryin to figure this chit out! And neither one is rocket science! But they keep movin the target with these damn HD's!!! :nixweiss: ;)

Hoist! 8)
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LarryB

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Re: Moisture Issue???
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2009, 07:02:55 AM »

you are most undoubtedly experiencing this mostly when its cold at night and then rapid warm up during the day. anyplace that the two temps meet, you have condensation, water. Two ways to combat, Ventilation or insulation. The addition of heat moves the thermal mass to another point. more heat , further away.
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