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[jasel]

I am not an attorney, but you are out of luck in PA with lemon laws.

1. They (lemon laws) do not apply to motorcycles.

2. lemon laws in most states apply for  them (Dealer) trying to fix and not accomplishing the task........not for refusing to fix

3. sounds like the environment caused your issues on this........

Sorry, I am of no help.......

'Lemon Laws' is a broad based term. Maybe Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act is more correct. Perhaps breach of warranty, implied warranty of merchantability. You can't just say if your motorcycle gets wet and chrome peels off in no time, HD is not responsible.

Harley uses the environment as a catch-all for warranty refusal.  And if I'm not mistaken, there probably is some law that states you can have different levels of acceptability where if the axle cap (shown above) has disintegrated, but the fork legs an wheels were not affected. Do you get 2 years if it's US made. 1 year for Mexico, and 3 weeks for China.

Any rust or corrosion has only one cause, the environment. Other factors may affect the speed or degree of damage.

The 'cause' of the damage was the Harley-Davidson provided cover. designed to be used as an indoor type cover keeping dust off and allowing moisture which evaporates in the environment under the cover, it passes through the cover, thus earning the label "breathable". It seems, though, that the cover did not do its job and any trapped moisture condensed on the bike as the temperature dropped.

If I put a DowCo cover on it and the bike got damaged, they might have a case, but what is their case if they provide the item that causes the problem?

And why do the dealer get held blameless (read a sales contract sometime). One would think that if this is prone to happening so easily, that the dealer would apply a nice heavy coat of wax on the new bike. Or have a day-glo banner taped to a can of WD-40.

I usually go for a New Year's Day ride, but this year I didn't. But there must have been a warm winter day up here in Rochester and I went for a ride. Dry roads. Dry weather. Now in my entire riding career have I dragged a hose out of storage and washed the bike in 40 degree weather.

The bike had not seemed to pick up anything, so it went back in the garage. March comes, cover comes off, and it looks like it was kept in a swimming pool. Every shiny metal part was covered. The paint job, rubber, plastic, and other parts were not.

Now I am learning as I go along here, but I thought they had to prove the damage was caused by improper care. I was NOT required to prove that it wasn't. Nonetheless, the insurance company ponied up a pile of money to have parts tested and the bike examined (the part I understand the least: how HD could be so arbitrary in refusing service).

Anyway, they consider the case closed. So it is up to me to decide what to do. Hire lawyer? Small claims? PA has a $8,000 limit and it avoids lawyers. A regular court they would have to risk losing and paying heavy legal fees. So they would make an effort. Maybe small claims would fall under the PITA category, and it would be cheaper to pay me off than waste their time on it. $8,000 would pay to have every chrome part stripped and powder coated, and if I ever have work done on the engine, I'll spring for a new cylinder which got the worst of it.

I just don't like the idea of Lemon lawyers. I feel like they're for people who like to stop short and keep a neck brace in their glove compartment.

Should have gone with plan A. Build the 2009 Street Glide into an Ultra, saved a bundle, and got what I wanted.

Anyway, thanks for listening. I was treated like a criminal on another forum. I guess there are people who like to spend their time pretending to be whatever, but I really would rather be riding.

James
2010 FLHTCUSE5 (for sale after litigation)
2009 FLHX w/ 110" motor. "The Sweet Glide"
2003 FLHTCUI 100th anniv
1998 FLSTF "Street Stalker"
2005 Softail Deluxe

Selling all but the Street Glide. Titled in PA. 3 newest bikes in NY state. Others near Allentown, PA. Bad taste developed for HD.

[Keats]

There was a valuable lesson learned and hopefully someone reading this post will be kept from making that mistake.

Good Luck.

PS I would stay away from filing in common pleas, that could cost you defendant's lawyers fees and that could make the original problem seem cheap

[Racerdj]

You obviously got a bad shift lever, but I'd say you got a good 110 if it was able to blow the chrome off it like that before the crank sissored.  

Great post!!

[HUBBARD]

Yeah, 'er 'uh, jasel,

  What's the deductible on your Insurance policy?  Substancially less than Attorneys fees, I would assume.  There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD

[Keats]

OK,  if this is really defective chrome and not environmental,
you could just put the cover on one the bikes that does not have defective chrome and see the results.

This does not sound like a Dealer issue or a Harley issue from the few facts that have been sparingly and strategically put forward.

It was just a mistake............

[Chains]

How the bike is stored can become an issue, I made the mistake of storing one of my bikes in a trailer, when i opened it in the spring, did I get the shock of my life.  The chrome had went through a freeze and thaw numerous times which in turns cause the parts to sweat, sweat leads to the promosion of corrosion.  No ones fault but my own.  Never did it again, but it is a tough and expensive lesson.  This was in a state that never gets to far below freezing, but freezing is freezing.  Don't know if that was an issue in this case maybe?

[skreminegul07]

I am not an attorney, but you are out of luck in PA with lemon laws.

1. They (lemon laws) do not apply to motorcycles.

2. lemon laws in most states apply for  them (Dealer) trying to fix and not accomplishing the task........not for refusing to fix

3. sounds like the environment caused your issues on this........

Sorry, I am of no help.......

Actually it varies by state but most states do cover motorcycles.  The strange part is the individual state may set the useful life of a motorcycle at 20000 or even 25000 miles, so if you exceed that mileage, there is no recovery.
I did file a lemon law suit, and unfortunately I picked a "Lemon" Lemon Law attorney.  They tried to screw me, details can be provided.

Do not use Kimmel & Silverman 1-800-Lemon Law.

[Z1 Dave]

I've been following this post and I seem to be missing something. A dealer probably makes of the minimum of $2,500.00 and they won't replace or even give a customer a new shifter and/or axle cap covers? Is there other parts that have an issue also? Something's wrong!


 

[Keats]

I've been following this post and I seem to be missing something. A dealer probably makes of the minimum of $2,500.00 and they won't replace or even give a customer a new shifter and/or axle cap covers? Is there other parts that have an issue also? Something's wrong!


 

read the entire thread from the beginning, this was not about a shifting lever.

[dmnrdn]

Lesson learned long time ago.  Never cover anything sitting on a concrete floor unless it is in a controlled climate.  Concrete leaches corrosives and cover trap them. Hence all of the corrosion on the bike. You made a costly mistake. Sorry it happened

[JCZ]

How do you pick a lemon lawyer?

I don't know if it's the same in all states.  We bought a 2006 BMW 330i from the BMW dealership and almost immediatly begin to have problems with the electronics in the dash (various doors open at various times when they weren't really open at all, time for an oil change 200-300 miles after the last one, low tire pressure when checked were all fine, brakes needed to be replaced when they had more than 60% left, and on and on).  Sometimes, we wouldn't even make it home from the dealership and it would start again.  I can count the amount of times it was in the shop.

My wife finally got fed up and contacted the dealership for a copy of all the service issues we'd had and they were very cooperative and apologetic.  They didn't say as much, but we felt they knew what we were up to and seemed to be glad that we were finally taking action.

Terrie got on the internet and searched for California vehicle lemon law attorneys.  She came up with a list.  I took the list and refined it by asking very specific questions like (Please provide me with year, month and settlements for your clients against BMW of America?).  Some didn't respond but several did and provided us with their settlements against BMW.  I called and talked to a couple of them and finally settled on a firm in San Diego (we live in Sacramento......500 miles away, at the opposite end of the state).

We were upside down in the car due to the amount owed on the BMW that we traded in on this one.  So we would have been totally satisfied just for a pay off on the car and we'd return it.  It doesn't work that way.

We sent a copy (about a half ream of paper) of all the service issues to the attorney.  They called us about ten days later and said that there would not be any charge unless they were successful in settling on our behalf and that we'd have to agree to any settlement before it could be accepted.  Sounded like we had very minamal risk and so we moved forward.

BMW accepted the claim in just about four weeks.  Then we had to produce proof of all payments made towards this car, the gap insurance, etc.  They had to pay all of that back to us and then we were obligated to a small monthly "use fee" (not even close to what the monthly payments were) and they had to pay loss of use and it seems like there were two or three other things that they had to pay for.  

We returned the car to a local BMW dealership and met a guy that BMW of America had sent over to assess the value and condition (dents, scratches, interior condition, etc. of which all was satisfactory since I had it detailed the day before, just for this purpose).  That process took about 15 minutes.  The next day the loan was paid in full.  Approx. three weeks letter we received a check for a very nice sum from our attorney and went and put that down on the new car.  We were very, very happy with the outcome of an otherwise bad situration.

Let me just say that our part was handled stricktly by phone and fax..........no meetings, no court, no appointments, etc.  Once the attorneys took it on, we didn't have any contact with BMW until the day we dropped the car off.    Just my recent and only experience with a lemon law case where a vehcile is concerned.

[Z1 Dave]

Lesson learned long time ago.  Never cover anything sitting on a concrete floor unless it is in a controlled climate.  Concrete leaches corrosives and cover trap them. Hence all of the corrosion on the bike. You made a costly mistake. Sorry it happened

Well said!!

In the state of Pennsylvania there isn't any Lemon Law for recreation vehicles. What it is called is a "Buy Back" from the manufacturer if it is a problem that has tried to be fixed at a dealer or dealers on numerous occasions. What happens here for instance, Harley would buy the bike back, pay for all accessories and labor. This money would be applied to new bike (if the customer was rational) or the customer would be totally refunded. Then the bike would either be sent back to Harley or it would stay at the dealer and try to be straightened out and sold for a loss if the problem was fixed. I've been through a few of these with motorcycles. In our case the dealership was paid for ALL the labor to identify and rectify the bikes issues. After that was done the manufacturer would have an idea what was going on and if this case were to arise again on another bike they would have the answers to solve the problem. Let's just use the base gasket O-rings on the early SE 110 CI engines. They were replaced a few times until the Motor Company found out they needed a Quad Seal there instead of an O-ring. The problem here was that there was too much crankcase pressure here and the pressure was pushing the oil by the O-ring. We had one at the dealer like this and it was taken apart 3 times and replaced and was never fixed until the new Quad seal came out. Of course the Motor Company bought this bike back and put the customer on a new bike who was very satisfied. For the bike I just spoke about, it was fixed, sold to one of my friends (which now it doesn't miss a beat) at a discounted price, with warranty. Oh by the way, this bike was bought and serviced at another dealership. I guess my problem here is that when a problem exists there are a few people out here that will never take responsibilities for their actions. The people then tend to lay the blame elsewhere. So now we get on the net and smash Harley-Davidson, the Dealers, the Owners, the Sales Staff, and the Techs (which is out of line) and then others tend to get a bad taste for these dealers without ever visiting or working them.

Here's my last and only questions:

I read the bike is in Rochester, NY. The selling dealer is in Center Valley, Pa. (maybe 250 miles apart). Did the selling dealership ever see this bike? Aren't there any other Harley Dealers between the 2 dealers where someone could physically inspected the bike or have a Factory Rep look at it? Sorry to ramble on, enough said.    

The End.

[Keats]

Well said!!

In the state of Pennsylvania there isn't any Lemon Law for recreation vehicles. What it is called is a "Buy Back" from the manufacturer if it is a problem that has tried to be fixed at a dealer or dealers on numerous occasions. What happens here for instance, Harley would buy the bike back, pay for all accessories and labor. This money would be applied to new bike (if the customer was rational) or the customer would be totally refunded. Then the bike would either be sent back to Harley or it would stay at the dealer and try to be straightened out and sold for a loss if the problem was fixed. I've been through a few of these with motorcycles. In our case the dealership was paid for ALL the labor to identify and rectify the bikes issues. After that was done the manufacturer would have an idea what was going on and if this case were to arise again on another bike they would have the answers to solve the problem. Let's just use the base gasket O-rings on the early SE 110 CI engines. They were replaced a few times until the Motor Company found out they needed a Quad Seal there instead of an O-ring. The problem here was that there was too much crankcase pressure here and the pressure was pushing the oil by the O-ring. We had one at the dealer like this and it was taken apart 3 times and replaced and was never fixed until the new Quad seal came out. Of course the Motor Company bought this bike back and put the customer on a new bike who was very satisfied. For the bike I just spoke about, it was fixed, sold to one of my friends (which now it doesn't miss a beat) at a discounted price, with warranty. Oh by the way, this bike was bought and serviced at another dealership. I guess my problem here is that when a problem exists there are a few people out here that will never take responsibilities for their actions. The people then tend to lay the blame elsewhere. So now we get on the net and smash Harley-Davidson, the Dealers, the Owners, the Sales Staff, and the Techs (which is out of line) and then others tend to get a bad taste for these dealers without ever visiting or working them.

Here's my last and only questions:

I read the bike is in Rochester, NY. The selling dealer is in Center Valley, Pa. (maybe 250 miles apart). Did the selling dealership ever see this bike? Aren't there any other Harley Dealers between the 2 dealers where someone could physically inspected the bike or have a Factory Rep look at it? Sorry to ramble on, enough said.    

The End.

Good post,

I am not jumping on the bandwagon of bashing Harley or Dealers unless they deserve it.
There in lies the problem, what some think of deserving means.
I own/run a small business that has much of the same issues as a Harley Dealer runs into (an appliance retailer)

The basic problem is always Money, the question is always who's pocket it should come out of.
Customers never want it to come out of their pocket.
Dealers do not want it to come out of their pocket.
Manufacturers do not want it to come out of their pocket.
There in lies the problem.

everyone has a role, and a good dealer knows his role.

I see a good dealer that can identify their customers (the ones they want) and try to get the customer what he wants.
If the customer is unreasonable, then the dealer must educate them on their position and try to
get them to reasonable. Dealers can give unreasonable customers what they want, they just need
the assurance that it is a good enough customer. (we do it all of the time)

Money is finite to a dealer and you need to make sure the available resources go to the right problem.

The dealer is beholden to their customers and to limitations the Manufacturer has placed.
The Dealer always can intercede with their own money, but must be done very carefully or they will be out of business.

[Keats]

No truer words spoken on what you said Keats. And I Thank You for your comments.

I wish the environment on the blog sites were more dealer friendly,
Dealers have a lot of insight, information and different vantage point.

Unfortunately Dealer participation is often  a short lived affair due to the fact who has the time to correct the world of wrong.

I did participate in an Appliance blog site and found myself trying to educate and correct wrong posts.

I just did not have the discipline to just leave it alone.

It became exhausting and futile and certainly not fun.

I keep my head from exploding by not going on blog sites that involve my industry.