Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[CVO Couple]

Any one try them?

[Texas 103]

Any one try them?

Snake oil !!!

Plus they will screw up your Ion Sensor system, that's the system keeps it from knocking when it has poor fuel or other issues. The motor thinks it's in trouble with those " trick" plugs .... and it really isn't. The system them  throws fuel at it to cool it off as well as pulls timing out..and it runs like  a turd..poor mileage..

Stick with good old Harley 6R12 plugs gapped @ .040  You'll be good to go. The ion sensor system is designed to run on a certain amount of  resistance, the coil, wires and plugs make up that system and when, "trick" plugs, wires are introduced...bad idea, also have seen them throwing  a code .

[grc]

What he said.  The only thing you really need to know about spark plugs is that the standard plugs are just fine, and if there was easy power or fuel economy to be gained by changing to something else, the manufacturers would have already done it.  The only change that is proven is the platinum or iridium electrodes common in four wheeled vehicles these days.  The advantage there is longer life, which is important when you require the plugs to go up to 100k miles between changes.  On your Harley, the regular electrodes are just fine for the Harley specified service intervals.  Btw, don't believe all the hype on plug wires either.  Modern engines have good silicone jacketed plug wires stock.  Once again, they have to last a long time with modern emission system warranties.  And they also have to work with the ion sense system as well as control electrical noise.  The stock stuff is designed to meet all the requirements, while much of the crap being hawked in the aftermarket is not.

Jerry

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Did back, back, back testing on plugs.
Proper heat range and proper gap for the application is what was found.
We used nothing but NGK's here.
Scott

[prodrag1320]

big time snake oil,just use a regular plug,we like autolites here

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Here you go.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Never witnessed a variance remotely close to that.
We kept intake temp, room temp, engine temps and tire pressure, all on an even playing field in order to retrieve genuine factual findings.........

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Well look at the weather stack reading.. The runs where done as fast as I could as you have  make corrections to the EFI system  .

And I am  well aware of how to do testing back to back. All facts are right there.. Both where brand new plugs, and tuned .. AFR line is there as well it took a few runs to get it dialed in.

 but I have to ask how can you do any such testing with your dyno..( no booth no brake you have stated many times you know nothing about tuning efi bikes )  ..Being I tune in a booth that is balanced  for pressure drop , and have 27+ air exchanges per minute, run on avg  of 4 02 readings at once , use test gas to confirm my 02 sensors are reading correctly.   I feel we are able to confirm accurate data.  The small variance you do see in weather reading would have help the E 3 plug so we are clear.. and by helped maybe +/- .1-2 tenths power..

But since you brought it up, lets see your testing please post the dyno sheets showing " level playing field " as you so put it. Always like to see more testing. Having more data is a great thing do you agree? 

 But really I want to thank you for your enlightening information,

[RayG]

We have seen photos from GMR's tuning room with clean room specs such as controlled temperature and humidity for accurate back to back testing.  This can only be done with clean room specs for those that know what a true manufacturers specs are for a clean room.  Can the other shop post photos of his testing room?  Can he back up anything?  Think not.  My opinion is probably worthless to most but one can talk up his results like a true salesman, the other can back up his shops reputation without the BS.  This is a no brainer for me.  Oh and I don't need another phone call just show us the facts, I'm sure some would like to see where this so called accurate testing is taking place!

[prodrag1320]

Here you go.

so the + hp/tq is with the E3 plugs,no other mods between runs? never would have thought it

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

no the stock plug made more power than the E3 plug.

[grc]

Need to label the chart Steve so it's obvious which run is which.  Obviously several people took your post and chart to mean you were claiming the E3 plugs increased power.  I was about to call BS myself, before you clarified the results. 

The first time I saw the E3 plug being hawked, it was being offered as a magic product for lawnmowers and other gasoline power yard tools.  They only had a few part numbers to fit different thread sizes and depth, no real heat range choices, and they were sold mail order or eventually in discount retailers.  I didn't pay much attention to them for several years, since it was obviously just another BS spark plug design, and then recently I noticed they had expanded their offerings to include vehicles.  The design is still BS of course, the only difference is the marketing.

One of the things many companies try to claim, or at least imply to the uninitiated, is that having all those extra ground electrode surfaces is somehow going to result in a huge circle of fire at the tip of the plug.  That's not how a plug works.  The spark forms between the electrodes with the lowest resistance.  In the case of a multi-electrode plug, the spark forms between the center electrode and ONE of the multiple ground electrodes.  The spark may move around to different ground electrodes during subsequent firing cycles, but it doesn't fire across all the electrodes during one cycle.  And all those extra electrodes can in fact partially block the mixture from the actual firing zone.

I still stick with my original answer to the OP.  Standard style plugs, either standard material or platinum/iridium, are the best bet.  Con artists have been offering up other whiz bang designs since shortly after the first internal combustion engine was sold, but ultimately the manufacturers stick with the simple and proven design.  That other stuff is for the folks who believe in fairy tales and something-for-nothing.

Jerry

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

I did right on the graph to show which one is which

[sadunbar]

Need to label the chart Steve so it's obvious which run is which.  Obviously several people took your post and chart to mean you were claiming the E3 plugs increased power.  I was about to call BS myself, before you clarified the results. 

The first time I saw the E3 plug being hawked, it was being offered as a magic product for lawnmowers and other gasoline power yard tools.  They only had a few part numbers to fit different thread sizes and depth, no real heat range choices, and they were sold mail order or eventually in discount retailers.  I didn't pay much attention to them for several years, since it was obviously just another BS spark plug design, and then recently I noticed they had expanded their offerings to include vehicles.  The design is still BS of course, the only difference is the marketing.

One of the things many companies try to claim, or at least imply to the uninitiated, is that having all those extra ground electrode surfaces is somehow going to result in a huge circle of fire at the tip of the plug.  That's not how a plug works.  The spark forms between the electrodes with the lowest resistance.  In the case of a multi-electrode plug, the spark forms between the center electrode and ONE of the multiple ground electrodes.  The spark may move around to different ground electrodes during subsequent firing cycles, but it doesn't fire across all the electrodes during one cycle.  And all those extra electrodes can in fact partially block the mixture from the actual firing zone.

I still stick with my original answer to the OP.  Standard style plugs, either standard material or platinum/iridium, are the best bet.  Con artists have been offering up other whiz bang designs since shortly after the first internal combustion engine was sold, but ultimately the manufacturers stick with the simple and proven design.  That other stuff is for the folks who believe in fairy tales and something-for-nothing.

Jerry

The chart is labeled, Jerry...next to the color coding and output results in the center....   

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

I agree on the spark being shielded. I had tuned the bike 6 months or so before those runs. 95 inch dd fat cat andrews 37 or 26 cam. I do not recall now. But customer went to a rally and bought two sets of these, they installed them for him. Bike ran poorly right away. Did not want to rev decel pop , low throttle response. So he bought it to me to see what was wrong. 

I have tested the frozen plugs and the others but this was the first time I could feel loss of power and the dyno could show it. So we got it tuned up to temp then swapped the plugs to the Champion and retuned. I was shocked to say the least..