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[RJ749]

Don't mean to hijack this thread but could someone explain how water cooling an engine brings emissions down as well as increase performance.

In addition to what VaEagle has said the more efficient an engine runs with a complete burn the closer to a lean condition you run.  By definition lean is too little gas/air combination and rich is the opposite with too much gas/air ratio.  As engineers strive to get emmissions in check and continue to improve performance, the closer to the edge of lean they operate the engine.  Lean equals heat.

As is indicated in this thread, the engines that are running hot (lean) have this condition resolved with a SERT/PC which allows tuners to richen the mixture and properly distribute it to the engine.

Bottom line, water is the most efficient way that manufacturers have found to cool engines and with a cooler engine they can run them closer to the edge of lean performance accomplishing a better and more efficient engine that produces fewer emissions and greater performance.

[Hoist!]

And with thermostatic control of the cooling water, it operates at design parameters and maintains more precise cooling water temperature differences. This results in predictable heat rejection, regardless of ambient conditions when the cooling water system is designed properly. Air cooled engines are subjected to varying temeratures for heat rejection so they are designed for worst case temperatures. With the strict EPA emmissions regulations now applied to bikes, they are at the edge of whether they can meet them. That's why these motors are dangerously lean. It can not get better and will shortly signal the end of air-cooled engines. Some new technology is out there for air-cooled design that might help extend it's life. S&S designed a new style V-Twin called the Max Wedge. They claim it's more efficient. If so, it can handle the EPA req'ts., for now. Eventually, it will end though. Frankly, I'm expecting my new SERK to be the last new air-cooled HD I will ever own! Too bad. If everyone was on a bike instead of all the cages, we wouldn't need the EPA! Hoist! 8-)

[RedDevil]

And with thermostatic control of the cooling water, it operates at design parameters and maintains more precise cooling water temperature differences. This results in predictable heat rejection, regardless of ambient conditions when the cooling water system is designed properly. Air cooled engines are subjected to varying temeratures for heat rejection so they are designed for worst case temperatures. With the strict EPA emmissions regulations now applied to bikes, they are at the edge of whether they can meet them. That's why these motors are dangerously lean. It can not get better and will shortly signal the end of air-cooled engines. Some new technology is out there for air-cooled design that might help extend it's life. S&S designed a new style V-Twin called the Max Wedge. They claim it's more efficient. If so, it can handle the EPA req'ts., for now. Eventually, it will end though. Frankly, I'm expecting my new SERK to be the last new air-cooled HD I will ever own! Too bad. If everyone was on a bike instead of all the cages, we wouldn't need the EPA! Hoist! 8-)

Howie,
I've had water-cooled bikes, yes I strayed from HD's for awhile , but then saw the light and came back to HD.  I like you, fear this will probably be the last air-cooled Harley that I will ever own.  I just don't see how with the more restrictive EPA requirements coming down the road, that any air-cooled engine will be able to run that lean and handle that heat without some sort of a forced cooling method.  The end of an era is near.  Fortunately, we'll be grandfathered and won't have to give up our precious air-cooled twins.
Cheers [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif],
Red

[RJ749]

Howie,
I've had water-cooled bikes, yes I strayed from HD's for awhile , but then saw the light and came back to HD.  I like you, fear this will probably be the last air-cooled Harley that I will ever own.  I just don't see how with the more restrictive EPA requirements coming down the road, that any air-cooled engine will be able to run that lean and handle that heat without some sort of a forced cooling method.  The end of an era is near.  Fortunately, [highlight]we'll be grandfathered [/highlight]and won't have to give up our precious air-cooled twins.
Cheers [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif],
Red

While old enough, I would prefer not to be a grandfather just now. [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

[Hoist!]

While old enough, I would prefer not to be a grandfather just now. [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

You sure got that right Rog!!! Hoist! 8-)

[The Mysterious Q!]

I must say this has been some interesting reading.The stuff i learn around here is priceless. I have been doing alot of reading lately( on the site) and it most always is better than turning the pages of a magazine. Soon the laptop will have a cradle in the loo so i can cancel my subscriptions to the mags and catch up on my posts. thanks Boys,  Q

[RedDevil]

While old enough, I would prefer not to be a grandfather just now. [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

It's not so bad...I just became one in October, we were blessed with a little baby grand daugher.  And you know what? It doesn't make me feel a day older than I did before I became one.  In fact, I'm sure as she grows older, she make me feel younger, or at least I'm going to have to act younger to keep up with her....
Cheeers [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif],
Red

[Hoist!]

It's not so bad...I just became one in October, we were blessed with a little baby grand daugher.  And you know what? It doesn't make me feel a day older than I did before I became one.  In fact, I'm sure as she grows older, she make me feel younger, or at least I'm going to have to act younger to keep up with her....
Cheeers [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif],
Red

That's great Red, and uder those circumstances I'd be OK with it too. Overjoyed, in fact. My daughters are 24 and 21 and are still with me! One just finished college last year and the other's still in college. Grandkids are not in that picture, I hope. [smiley=nixweiss.gif] One day, but not now! Hoist! 8-)

[HogBreath]

Hoist, I've got two boys, 22 and 27. Want to introduce them to your girls?

[Hoist!]

Hoist, I've got two boys, 22 and 27. Want to introduce them to your girls?

What's the Dowery worth? $$$   Hoist! 8-)

[HogBreath]

What's the Dowery worth? $$$   Hoist! 8-)

NO need to pay me! I consider you a friend.

[RJ749]

My son is 28 and when he was 17 a girl told him he was a dad.  

Problem as I saw it was it couldn't be, timing was all wrong.  I sent his ass to Hawaii to work with a friend of mine for that summer.  After about 90 days she makes the announcement.

I had it figured, based on jr. high birds and bees class that unless it took 11 months to have a child he couldn't be the dad.  Anyway, baby was born premature in February and he works a job, plays on the HS baseball team and spends all kinds of time with mom and the kid through the remainder of his Junior year.

I never let them in the house.  Told him if he would simply get a DNA test to be sure I would be "all in", otherwise don't bring the kid here 'cause I don't want to become invested if it isn't his.  Summer comes and goes and in September, with the baby now 7 months old the county wants to be paid for the Hospital fees.  He hadn't signed any papers accepting being the father so they issued a summons for a DNA test.  

The mom had been coming up with excuse after excuse about doing one, but a court ordered shut her up.  BINGO, not his kid.  Don't you love science?  Anyway, so it goes.

Now he has just sold a house he jointly owns with a young lady he met in college and they have been together for five years or so, bought the house together (against better advice), she ends up in another relationship, dumps my son and wants out.

Best part of this deal is the house sells in two days, boyfriend dumps her three weeks later and now they are getting separate new living quarters.  So no, don't need to be grandad just now, but hopefully when the time comes under the right set of circumstances all will be fine.

[Hoist!]

NO need to pay me! I consider you a friend.

Tempting HB!!! Hoist! 8-)

[Ghost Rider]

Hoist, I've got two boys, 22 and 27. Want to introduce them to your girls?

Holy crap, now the site is offering dating services!!  Heck if we add electronic bill paying, and tax services I won't need to go anywhere else on the web.

 [smiley=pineapple.gif]

Ghost

[HogBreath]

Hahahahah Ghost. I spit my drink out.