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[iski]

I doubt Indian will truly rival HD but if they and Victory get a good foot hold on the market it will affect HD. The Goliath always hates to loose more than the David. I heard Harley lost 4% and the Victory/Indian dealer says if they gain 1% they are thrilled. Watch out Harley may get a "toyota" pulled on them.

As I recall Goliath got so smug he pushed his helmet up because David could never really threaten him. Is Harley smug??

Smug or so top heavy they react almost like a dinosaur did to the asteroid.  Not that severe but with a wider I dealer network & a weaker Honda US presence, Indian has plenty of room to grow.

Indian desperately needs to rethink its niche style design.  If I were Indian, would continue with a "vintage" line like HDs Heritage, etc.  But on the touring line I would be trying to happily marry the handling & speed of a BMW-type scoot with the riding comfort of an HD tourer.  Find a happy medium, performance plus handling related that would appeal more to a younger buyer.  HD should be doing that themselves. Now the fairing Indians look like......they ALMOST got the style, but slapped a big chrome honker on the fairing.  As Indian restyles & expands lineup, it gets tougher for Harley.  Am often wrong & probably am here but eventually with competition pressure (5-10 more years), prices will drop as a method to maintain what is viewed as neeed market share.

[J-Carr]

Smug or so top heavy they react almost like a dinosaur did to the asteroid.  Not that severe but with a wider I dealer network & a weaker Honda US presence, Indian has plenty of room to grow.

Indian desperately needs to rethink its niche style design.  If I were Indian, would continue with a "vintage" line like HDs Heritage, etc.  But on the touring line I would be trying to happily marry the handling & speed of a BMW-type scoot with the riding comfort of an HD tourer.  Find a happy medium, performance plus handling related that would appeal more to a younger buyer.  HD should be doing that themselves. Now the fairing Indians look like......they ALMOST got the style, but slapped a big chrome honker on the fairing.  As Indian restyles & expands lineup, it gets tougher for Harley.  Am often wrong & probably am here but eventually with competition pressure (5-10 more years), prices will drop as a method to maintain what is viewed as neeed market share.

Add in a radio that supports apps and is integrated with the phone for those apps like Pandora, I heart etc and add CB and Bluetooth headset and com protocol along with intercom capabilities.  Make it reliable and you would not need to drop prices to sell it.  But if you did, and then make the different packages as available accessories from the factory instead of toss the factory and add mentality you'd revolutionize how you go about buying a motorcycle.

However...

This is 2016 changes... so... the above is a list of what you will not be seeing in 2016.  We can edit and repost next year with a new date.

[iski]

Add in a radio that supports apps and is integrated with the phone for those apps like Pandora, I heart etc and add CB and Bluetooth headset and com protocol along with intercom capabilities.  Make it reliable and you would not need to drop prices to sell it.  But if you did, and then make the different packages as available accessories from the factory instead of toss the factory and add mentality you'd revolutionize how you go about buying a motorcycle.

However...

This is 2016 changes... so... the above is a list of what you will not be seeing in 2016.  We can edit and repost next year with a new date.

We could call it the Dream the Impossible Dream thread, updated yearly  All good ideas.  Some are out there already, at least in part.  The real estate space available on the all those inner fairings, and the lack of using it to a better advantage remains a Mystery of Life.  Indian can probably exist profitably within the HD pricing windows.  What interests me is: if Indian sales erode HD sales, how far into that erosion will HD react & how. 

Anyway, HD should hire more statuesque models to strut about in a friendly fashion at rallys & shows. 

Any guess as to the "hot topic" on 2016 lineup? 

[charles05663]

We could call it the Dream the Impossible Dream thread, updated yearly  All good ideas.  Some are out there already, at least in part.  The real estate space available on the all those inner fairings, and the lack of using it to a better advantage remains a Mystery of Life.  Indian can probably exist profitably within the HD pricing windows.  What interests me is: if Indian sales erode HD sales, how far into that erosion will HD react & how. 

Anyway, HD should hire more statuesque models to strut about in a friendly fashion at rallys & shows. 

Any guess as to the "hot topic" on 2016 lineup?

Probably they would start cheapening their product and ship part production overseas as to maintain their profit margin so the shareholders would be happy and to maintain their stock price so management would be a able to cash in their options for a big payday.   

Crazy as that sounds I can see it happening.   

 

[iski]

Probably they would start cheapening their product and ship part production overseas as to maintain their profit margin so the shareholders would be happy and to maintain their stock price so management would be a able to cash in their options for a big payday.   

Crazy as that sounds I can see it happening.   

 

Well, since that has been their strategy for the last decade or so, seems they would try something new.  After all, HD has made nostalgia new again, just look at the bike lineup.  Sooooò maybe they could substitute more plastic parts in for metal ones, redesign for cost effectiveness a few features like the hydraulic clutch and/or compensators or smaller items like saddlebag pin attachments, & offer black HD men's t shirts for sale for say......$70.  Then they could get reduced labor costs by telling their unions if they refuse they would move plants, and investors would be more  pleased with their profit margins?   

I think all of the above might be Indian's fault.  That's the way it works, more or less, around here. 

[J-Carr]

2016 big news?  My guess:

They've ignored the Softail line for so long that I think IF there's any "big" change in '16 it would be on the Softails.  The Dyna's got a make over in the early 2000s, practically yesterday in the world of HD.  2004 Sporties became condom glides.  I mean rubber mounted engines.  The V-Rod is only 15 years ignored old now.  The dressers have had a new frame a new exhaust route and then the whole suite of rushed more but still not ready for prime time enhancements.

Other than putting a balancer in the motor and changing the name of the take everything off and paint it black and charge more softail have they done anything to those bikes since 1884 I mean 1984 when they released 'em?  OH yeah... they killed the springer.

[Dr.D]

Indian desperately needs to rethink its niche style design.  If I were Indian, would continue with a "vintage" line like HDs Heritage, etc.  But on the touring line I would be trying to happily marry the handling & speed of a BMW-type scoot with the riding comfort of an HD tourer.  Find a happy medium, performance plus handling related that would appeal more to a younger buyer. 

Polaris has Indian for the retro old school look and can keep old looking touring bikes because they also own Victory that is modern and even futuristic looking. Now I would add that just because they look old -ish that does not mean they should be without all the latest technology.

I think DH is to big for their britches and looking down their noses at all of us and other manufactures.

[North Georgia Hawg]

Add in a radio that supports apps and is integrated with the phone for those apps like Pandora, I heart etc and add CB and Bluetooth headset and com protocol along with intercom capabilities.  Make it reliable and you would not need to drop prices to sell it. But if you did, and then make the different packages as available accessories from the factory instead of toss the factory and add mentality you'd revolutionize how you go about buying a motorcycle.

However...

This is 2016 changes... so... the above is a list of what you will not be seeing in 2016.  We can edit and repost next year with a new date.

For the life of me, I will never understand why automotive and motorcycle head units are so friggin' expensive, buggy, and generally underwhelming. Ditto the old-style DVD-based nav systems. My iPhone is MUCH more useful as a nav device.

I just finished installing an all-new audio system in our boat, the Nau(gh)tiBadger. I bought a nice little Kenwood Marine KMR-D562BT head unit for it, new at BestBuy for like $145. It has Pandora, IHeartRadio, Bluetooth so I can play Pandora or whatever right from my iPhone, programmable all to hell, RCA 4-channel and RCA sub outputs, a nice little USB connector on the front that has a little door that closes over it, removable faceplate, fully coated circuit board, small onboard amp that I don't even use, etc. It connected up with all of five wires: unswitched power (so settings persist), switched power, ground, remote amp turn-on, and ONE wire to connect up the marine remote on the transom. That's it!

No, it doesn't have steering wheel controls, handlebar controls, etc... But good Lord, it sure seems like the auto companies and Harley charge through the NOSE for their questionable-quality and severely-underfeatured "Infotainment" systems! They seem pointlessly complex and outrageously expensive to me.

Ken

[Puma]

For the life of me, I will never understand why automotive and motorcycle head units are so friggin' expensive, buggy, and generally underwhelming. Ditto the old-style DVD-based nav systems. My iPhone is MUCH more useful as a nav device.

I just finished installing an all-new audio system in our boat, the Nau(gh)tiBadger. I bought a nice little Kenwood Marine KMR-D562BT head unit for it, new at BestBuy for like $145. It has Pandora, IHeartRadio, Bluetooth so I can play Pandora or whatever right from my iPhone, programmable all to hell, RCA 4-channel and RCA sub outputs, a nice little USB connector on the front that has a little door that closes over it, removable faceplate, fully coated circuit board, small onboard amp that I don't even use, etc. It connected up with all of five wires: unswitched power (so settings persist), switched power, ground, remote amp turn-on, and ONE wire to connect up the marine remote on the transom. That's it!

No, it doesn't have steering wheel controls, handlebar controls, etc... But good Lord, it sure seems like the auto companies and Harley charge through the NOSE for their questionable-quality and severely-underfeatured "Infotainment" systems! They seem pointlessly complex and outrageously expensive to me.

Ken

Garmin GPS=$400. In dash GPS=$3000 in most cars.

[J-Carr]

For the life of me, I will never understand why automotive and motorcycle head units are so friggin' expensive, buggy, and generally underwhelming. Ditto the old-style DVD-based nav systems. My iPhone is MUCH more useful as a nav device.

I just finished installing an all-new audio system in our boat, the Nau(gh)tiBadger. I bought a nice little Kenwood Marine KMR-D562BT head unit for it, new at BestBuy for like $145. It has Pandora, IHeartRadio, Bluetooth so I can play Pandora or whatever right from my iPhone, programmable all to hell, RCA 4-channel and RCA sub outputs, a nice little USB connector on the front that has a little door that closes over it, removable faceplate, fully coated circuit board, small onboard amp that I don't even use, etc. It connected up with all of five wires: unswitched power (so settings persist), switched power, ground, remote amp turn-on, and ONE wire to connect up the marine remote on the transom. That's it!

No, it doesn't have steering wheel controls, handlebar controls, etc... But good Lord, it sure seems like the auto companies and Harley charge through the NOSE for their questionable-quality and severely-underfeatured "Infotainment" systems! They seem pointlessly complex and outrageously expensive to me.

Ken

My problem is those other replacement head units or a plug in amp that connects to my iPhone don't offer the helmet to helmet coms or the bike to bike CB.  We do use both those features.  A lot.  Otherwise I might just make a custom dash for an iPad mini and have a go at it.  I could even make the handlebar controls work, at least for volume by using a cheap head unit that supports steering wheel control interface (There's a protocol for it, like Bluetooth).

Of course until I'd get done making a custom inner fairing to hold the iPad so it doesn't fall out or look like some rubber banded rednecked invention I'd have spent what it would cost to have the high end head unit with GPS anyway.

Some day, when I retire, we'll be living full time in a Toy Hauler and not doing any group rides so the Bluetooth headset will work for us.  Until that time, I'm stuck with HD.

[610hog]

There is really nothing new for 2016. There is a 103 Road Glide ultra. But nothing major.

[Rooster]

nothing but another price increase you mean

[charles05663]

nothing but another price increase you mean

Maybe they will increase the quality of their bikes...

 

[grc]

Maybe they will increase the quality of their bikes...

 

     

Jerry

[grc]

For the life of me, I will never understand why automotive and motorcycle head units are so friggin' expensive, buggy, and generally underwhelming. .....................................................................

Ken

It's the same reason why Apple can charge $800 for a phone they have made in China for about $50 max.  People will pay it.  And until people stop paying ten times what the infotainment systems are worth, the car and bike folks will keep right on sticking it to them.  It's called pricing to whatever level the rubes will put up with.  Their cost to actually produce or procure the system and install it has nothing to do with it.  The profit margin on the accessories is much higher than the profit margin on the basic car or bike.

IMHO, built in NAV systems are something to be avoided, not embraced.  I can buy a good portable Garmin for less than $200, and if it fails I'm out $200.  Wait until that built in NAV in your car or bike fails and see what it will cost you to replace it.  And many do in fact fail over time.

Jerry