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[RonandJanet]

Cam, At this point I don't how you are staying so cool!  I would be speaking with the dealer (owner) and HD and getting attention to this safety issue.  I do think calling out the lemon law (if applicable for your location) is a great idea but the safety issue is critical. The dealer should bend over to show you the problem is fixed. I think demanding all the documentation from each visit reflecting the issue and the resolution of each visit (the dealer's version) is imperative. I always have my version written up by now. The point being you can prove from the dealer's own records that the bike has been brought in for the same issue xx times, the problem is always there, the fluid is disappearing and it is not leaking.  It is hard to argue the facts and the data. Sorry you have to do this. The dealer should be doing everything possible to make your bike safe and enjoyable. 

[phato1]

Is Scott willing to take your bike for a looong ride to verify that the issue doesn't repeat itself?
Keeping the bike in the dealer's service bay won't accomplish anything since the problem seems to occur after using the clutch during normal operation.
Tell him to put a couple hundred miles on it and then call you when it's fixed.

[MrSurly]

I continue to be confounded by this simple question: WHY is the dealer so incredibly averse to checking the trans or pulling the side cover??
OR... Have they done this and we don't know?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[phato1]

Good question Surly....
Seems the service at this particular establishment leaves much to be desired..or maybe like you posed they did look into it further and just don't communicate very well.

[MrSurly]

I can imagine taking in a can of Coke which I would hold up and announce "This can represents more than the entire internal volume of the hydraulic clutch system on this bike. And THIS ---holding up a liter bottle in the other hand-- is how much fluid y'all have poured in it. Care to explain?


EDIT: I don't have my books here, but I wonder if the various manuals actually STATE the capacity of the clutch? That would be great information to have on hand. Right after you get the record of their services (and you can bet they charged the MOCO for the maximum allowable quantity each time).  Hmmm...I wonder what the max is?

[phato1]

Not to make light of Cam's troubles but the whole 12 Oz to Litre comparison would totally confuse them.
You know the conversion requires math right? Or at least the ability to use a computer to look it up....

[cambo]

One more thing: when after multiple requests during my discussion with Tim to escalate, I mentioned that since he seems to not want to let me escalate I have no choice but to get on the forum and try and find a phone number to escalate that way. He said and I'm trying to quote him as close as I can: "that's your problem right there. You believe what you read on these forums."

Cam

[MrSurly]

There are dents in my desk and my head hurts.


EDIT: Please ask Tim how many years of experience he has as a wrench.
If you call, and do not give them a reference or case number, can you get to anyone OTHER than Tim?
Did you ask to speak to an engineer?
It is ridiculous that he can be a one-man buffer between the customer and the moco.

PLEASE call another dealer's service guy and tell him that your clutch is losing fluid and you don't see a leak; ask him where he thinks it might be going.
DON'T mention the current dealer or warranty or CS or anything. Just ask him for an opinion.

[cambo]

I asked Tim to talk to anyone else and he would only agree to let me talk to Jaime, the first guy I talked to on Friday. Jaime is the one who told me on Friday it's crazy to ever consider the clutch fluid ending up in the transmission as that is an impossibility. Both of them told me as a customer I have absolutely no other recourse other than taking the bike to another dealer if I'm unhappy with this on. They also said that they are only the manufacturer and they didn't understand what I expected of them. Tim kept saying that he was confused as to what I was expecting to get by talking to them.

Actually recalling the whole conversation is really pissing me off big time. So I shall stop...

Serenity n...oh what's the use.

Were's my bottle of medicine formulated and prescribed by Dr. Jack Daniels?

Cam

[phato1]

I like the idea of calling another dealer with a general question about the fluid loss.

In fact I'm going to stop by my dealer and ask a few questions on my way home from work....

Sorry but Tim sounds like a tool.....and not Tim the tool man Taylor.

[phato1]

And since my 11.5 has a hydraulic clutch it will be a legitimate question!

[phato1]

Ok. I'll try and make it simple.. you have the actuator which "pushes" the engagement rod for the clutch, the actuator has a seal between it and the gearbox, there is also a nitrile rubber O - ring that the rod passes through to get into and through the gearbox to the clutch. .so right off the bat there are 3 possible ways for the clutch fluid to get into the gear box.
1. The seal of the actuator
2. The O ring on between the engagement rod and gear box which may be damaged. If it were missing the fluid would just flow freely into the tranny.
3. Which actually related to number 2 is a burr on the engagement rod which has damaged the O ring causing a leak whenever the clutch is used.

It's just like the master cylinder for the brakes on any car....

Tell your dealer that all this can be checked by simply pulling the dam side cover and actuator assembly. Once they remove those assemblies the problem should become obvious.
They have definitely put more fluid into the system then it was designed to hold.

Or you could bring it to another dealer who is willing to investigate the problem and not just keep filling the thing with more fluid.

If you want to bring it to CT my dealer can take care of it. It's really not that complicated.

[cambo]

The positive thing about this whole experience is that now I actually understand how the whole clutch/transmission mechanism works.

I may just get the bike back and open up the dang thing and look at it myself just to be sure. After all it is me and my wife's life and health we are talking about!

Cam

[phato1]

A check of the tranny fluid level before taking the bike will give you your first clue.

[grc]

Trust me, you file paperwork for a lemon law buy-back and someone at H-D corporate will talk to you.  I don't know who those clowns are you talked to at H-D Customer Disservice, but they definitely have a boss and he in turn has a boss.  I seem to remember from some time back the supervisor of the section was a guy named John, can't remember the last name, maybe someone who has spoken with him will remember and chime in.  Or maybe he was too level headed and fair so the current mismanagement team dumped him for another clueless drone.

After all this stupidity over a simple hydraulic system, does anyone still think I'm being too negative when I call out H-D for lousy customer service?  Poor quality and this kind of disservice after the sale is exactly why I refuse to buy anything from H-D.

Jerry