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[Hoist!]

This is from the SERK Catagory. I thought I'd start it here so everyone sees it. What's so special about the hydraulic clutch actuation and why do we want it? Please read the following. This seems to have happened to numerous people.

 "Re: heads up serk owners
Reply #5 - Today at 4:05am  Quote  Modify  Remove   Quote from harleyteam on Yesterday at 8:43pm:
took mine out for a ride thursday, 50 degrees. had 223 miles when I started. after ridin about 15 miles, stopped to see a friend. while tryin to find N, the bike started lurchin. clutch was all the way in,  finally had to hit shutoff. let set about 15 min. and decided to head for dealer.  GOOD CHOICE.  about 15 miles down road, got stuck at light behind pickup. bike started lurchin big time. shut it off quick before I hit something. dealer only 1 mile with only 1 more light. made it.  service took it right in.hyd. clutch real low on fluid, next question was were did it go. fitting on tranny loose, right behind exh.... they bled it and finally got a tool in to tighten it. obviously loose from factory.at that point had 250 on it.

when you pick yours up,,, might want dealer to look for this. if weather would have kept me from gettin some ridin in, I wouldn't have found this til Daytona.  lots more traffic there. it could have been bad."

My reply last night:
"Sorry to hear about that Dennis. Is it just the looseness and that it then needing bleeding? Does it feel right now? You've been riding a long time. Do you like it better than a cable-operated? Between the on-off engagement and these leaks, what's the benefit of these hydraulic set-ups? I hope the only benefit's not just more chrome on the bike. Something else to deal with now. Hey Jerry, you got the PNs for the trans clutch cover parts you need to convert to a cable actuated clutch w/ Braided SS Clutch Cable and chrome clutch bracket?  What's next?  Hoist!"

What do you all think? Hoist!  8-)  

[Fired00d]

I think the main reason that MoCo went to hydraulic clutches was for less pull at the lever. I'm thinking with the bigger motors (starting w/the 103's) there were bigger clutch/clutch packages installed in these bikes from the factory. To alleviate the extra pull by these clutches they decided to make the hydraulic clutch standard equipment.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[Twolanerider]

Howie, with the new "easy pull" (or whatever it's called) gadget for the manual clutches the hydraulic is probably less of a concern.  Those new ones pull so easy compared to what they did before.

Any system can have a failure.  Hydraulics will have leaks or blown lines while the others will break cables occasionally.  The hydraulics haven't seemed at all prone to failure of any kind though.

After getting used to it for a bit I've come to like the hydraulic clutch.  Did have a clutch cylinder fail once.  But shifting without a clutch isn't that big deal so still limped in.  Honestly don't think one is a dramatic improvement over the other.  Just different ways to accomplish the same task anymore.

FWIW, and this is a small thing, I do appreciate better the visual symmetry of the same hump sticking up on both sides of the handlebar.

[RedDevil]

I personally wouldn't get to wrapped up about the hydraulic clutch problem he had.  Every once in a while one "slips through the cracks" and has a problem.  Fortunately, he didn't have an accident or cause any serious damage, and was a minor fix.  (Back to QC at the factory and PDI at the dealer)  Hydraulic clutches, while not on HD's, have been around a long time on motorcycles.  The VRod has them, and I would venture to guess, like the 6-speed tranny, they will become standard on the rest of the Harley line soon.  (Just my opinion there.)  If it hadn't of been for the high cost, I would have installed one on my 02 Ultra, and was very happy to have it included on the CVO.  I personally like the hydraulic clutch.  Every non-Harley bike I've own (Honda, BMW) have had hydraulic clutches and never had a problem with any of them.  I'm expecting that same reliability out of HD's clutch...(and if you really want to, HD used to offer the hydraulic clutch setup in black   )

Red

[Hoist!]

All of these responses don't seem to indicate any advantages over a cable unless you like the look or can't get used to a cable clutch actuation with a performance clutch assembly. I'm still a little Old School and it sounds like I might be the first one converting to a cable. I might actually have to let the dealer do this so I don't screw up my 2 Year Warranty! Someone tell me why I'm crazy for wanting to do this. Hoist!  8-)

[grc]

Hydraulic Clutch Advantages:
1-Maintenance (none required, self adjusting, change fluid every two years if you like)
2-Reduced effort (CVO's come with the SE clutch spring, 10-20% more pressure)

Hydraulic Clutch Disadvantages:
1-Cannot adjust engagement point like you could with a cable.

All of the problems I've either experienced personally or read about have been the result of poor assembly by the MoCo (air in system, loose fittings, etc.), not any inherent issue with hydraulics in general (anyone want to go back to cable operated drum brakes?).  IMHO, they should have been using hydraulics for the past 20 years, like most other manufacturers.  

Jerry

[Hoist!]

Hydraulic Clutch Advantages:
1-Maintenance (none required, self adjusting, change fluid every two years if you like)
2-Reduced effort (CVO's come with the SE clutch spring, 10-20% more pressure)

Hydraulic Clutch Disadvantages:
1-Cannot adjust engagement point like you could with a cable.

All of the problems I've either experienced personally or read about have been the result of poor assembly by the MoCo (air in system, loose fittings, etc.), not any inherent issue with hydraulics in general (anyone want to go back to cable operated drum brakes?).  IMHO, they should have been using hydraulics for the past 20 years, like most other manufacturers.  

Jerry

Thanks Jerry. I don't equate cable actuated clutch to cable actuated brakes. The responsiveness required for both systems is completely different. The 2 advantages you stated above don't really concern me at all. The adjustment and feel a cable gives you, seems to be a bigger benefit to me. Can the hydraulic easily be converted back on these '07s. Are the parts all available. There's nothing here that's convinced me that the hydraulic is better or more reliable. Hoist!  8-)

[Twolanerider]

All of these responses don't seem to indicate any advantages over a cable unless you like the look or can't get used to a cable clutch actuation with a performance clutch assembly. I'm still a little Old School and it sounds like I might be the first one converting to a cable. I might actually have to let the dealer do this so I don't screw up my 2 Year Warranty! Someone tell me why I'm crazy for wanting to do this. Hoist!  8-)

Ok, you're crazy  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] .

The hyrdaulics work great.  Work almost without maintenance.  It's not a sexy or exciting improvement.  But it is an improvement.  I wouldn't pay the difference to make the change if it'd been the other way to start with.  But no way I'd change back.

[Hoist!]

[highlight]Ok, you're crazy[/highlight]  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] .

The hyrdaulics work great.  Work almost without maintenance.  It's not a sexy or exciting improvement.  But it is an improvement.  I wouldn't pay the difference to make the change if it'd been the other way to start with.  But no way I'd change back.

Alright, I know I'm crazy. But how is it an improvement? Maintenance? Reduced clutch effort? Is that all? To give up adjustability and clutch feel. Where's the improvement? It seems they went this route for all the new people that complain about clutch effort. [smiley=confused5.gif] Hoist!  8-)

[Fired00d]

Thanks Jerry. I don't equate cable actuated clutch to cable actuated brakes. The responsiveness required for both systems is completely different. The 2 advantages you stated above don't really concern me at all. The adjustment and feel a cable gives you, seems to be a bigger benefit to me. Can the hydraulic easily be converted back on these '07s. Are the parts all available. There's nothing here that's convinced me that the hydraulic is better or more reliable. Hoist!  8-)

Ok, let me help you out...

You change your clutch back to the cable operated and your motor blows. The MoCo is going to deny your warranty claim stating that because you changed out from hydraulic clutch cable it caused the motor to blow, and then your 2 year warranty will be all for nothing. [smiley=oops.gif]

Sorry Bro I just couldn't resist the [smiley=devil.gif] made me say that. [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
RIde Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[Hoist!]

All of these responses don't seem to indicate any advantages over a cable unless you like the look or can't get used to a cable clutch actuation with a performance clutch assembly. I'm still a little Old School and it sounds like I might be the first one converting to a cable. I might actually have to let the dealer do this so I don't screw up my 2 Year Warranty! Someone tell me why I'm crazy for wanting to do this. Hoist!  8-)

Did you miss this one d00d? Hoist!  8-)

[Fired00d]

Did you miss this one d00d? Hoist!  8-)

Nope I didn't. Still not stock configuration from the factory. [smiley=nixweiss.gif] Just being devils advocate, along w/giving you the business.

It's your bike do/make any mods you want to it, has been my belief all along.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[Twolanerider]

To give up adjustability and clutch feel. Where's the improvement?

Ok, a bit of a misperception so far.  You don't give up any sense of clutch feel.  The feel is different and will be (quickly) learned by your hand and seat of your pants.  But there is a "feel" to it.  You could say that you give up "adjustablility" and you certainly do give up a choice of release points.  What you gain, however, is simply never having to adjust the clutch again.  And the "feel" of the release isn't at all bad.  So I don't personally see that loss as a loss.

[harleyteam]

ok.

I like the hyd. clutch.  the bleeder fitting on the tranny cover was loose. obviously an oversite at the factory. the bike was deliverd with 2 different exhaust tips,  which anyone should have been able to spot.  I was meerly suggesting that anyone picking up a new bike should suggest to service that they look for things like this before letting you take it.

Hoist,, if it makes you feel better, Feb. of 05, I had the motor of my 90 heritage redone at MOCO on their engine program. when reassembling, service guys found my clutch cable was so frayed inside the case,  that it would not have lasted long. could have broke on me anywhere without warning. they put in a new one without charging me. I thought that was great.

[Hoist!]

Ok, a bit of a misperception so far.  You don't give up any sense of clutch feel.  The feel is different and will be (quickly) learned by your hand and seat of your pants.  But there is a "feel" to it.  You could say that you give up "adjustablility" and you certainly do give up a choice of release points.  What you gain, however, is simply never having to adjust the clutch again.  And the "feel" of the release isn't at all bad.  So I don't personally see that loss as a loss.

That's the first time I've heard that Don, thanks. It's been implied that this clutch feel is "on-off" only at the release point. I also would of course wait until I get some time with it first before doing anything. So there's no immediate plans to replace it. But adjusting a clutch cable's no big deal either. I guess it's just another QC thing eating at me while I read everything in these threads going on with the '07 bikes. Hoist!  8-)