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[FlaHeatWave]

'Was reading some of the whining in the "layoff thread" and thought I would start a new one...

Some were whining about the "lack of options" from Harley

The MoCo has been doing this for almost 15 years, a couple of examples; 88, 95, 103 - 96, 103, 110 engine families - the 120 ST on the horizon available as a Dealer Installed Option with warranty... is not the SG, EG , Ultra, 3 distinct "comfort packages" What about the "Low" models? then add the CVO SG, EG, Ultra in the mix??? always offering several color choices per year, designing proprietary paints, the wheels on the '09 SERG rival anything in the "custom world" and they are OE... I could go on, but you get the point...

There is no other MC OEM out there that offers anywhere near the OE options that HD has made available to consumers since 2000.

Yea, you might have to pay a little to "make it your own" but at least Harley makes the options available... Who else does to that extent???

Some were whining that Harley should be more like BMW. In '76 I rode the R900, recognized as a benchmark bike for the marque even today, it was the most ill handling POS that I have ever ridden!!! (even compared to the Kaw 2 stroke triples ). You can go get on the beemers that are so ugly, look like something out of Judge Dredd, I prefer riding a rolling work of art. As for reliability, BMW has much worse percentages  40%BMW vs 26%HD.

Some were whining about reliability issues, yes some of us have had them, but there are many more that haven't (these forums are not the whole picture) For comparison see BMW above...

Some were whining about waiting in line (or having to make an appointment) for service at the Harley Dealers, there are many States that don't even have a BMW dealer (don't even talk about parts availability), there's not a place to get a GoldWing serviced on every corner either...

There are still a lot of Harley Dealers that will put you to the front of the line and go out of their way to help those that have problems when traveling. But as Major Tom can attest to, there are still some a$$holes in Central / Southwest Florida...

Some were whining that Harley technology is antiquated, I prefer "legacy" because I value the history that is built into our bikes, and above that, the visceral feel and sound that others have tried to imitate.
I feel that the MoCo has done a great job maintaining the legacy in the face of ever increasing emissions standards. Don't forget that Harley has stretched the envelope of air cooled motorcycle engine technology way past any other marque. 

Someone mentioned the import tariff of the 80s that was in place by the US Government for a few years to help Harley regain their footing in the marketplace. Like no other country ever did / does that

Another thing that might seem trivial; Harley is an icon around the world, when at multinational destinations (Orlando, Yellowstone, Las Vegas, San Francisco etc...) people from all Continents will walk right past every other marque to take a picture with a CVO = pricele$$

And for those that say "He's just drinking the koolaid" , MikeyT will tell you that the only koolaide that I drink is his

Peace Out...

[Major Tom]

Sounds to me that some folks have a little 'cabin fever' and need to get out and spend some time in the wind.

Cheers
Major Tom

[JCZ]

Well there's a perspective.
 
I've posted on other threads that those whinning about the Harleys of today should have been riding these bikes before the Evo motor came out.....back in the day when you had to work on them damn near every time you rode them.  Back when you weren't riding a couple of thousand miles without working on them or without dumping a quart of oil in them....back in the day when you carried a slew of "extra" parts because your experience was that you'd lost that part before....back in the day when bailing wire (how many even know what that is today?) was a "must" in the tool kit.....back in the day when you had to have a tool kit.

Just this past weekend, just outside of Parker, Ariz. I stopped to help a couple of gentleman on late model Ultra Classics that were just completing a six state ride and neither of them even had room for the stock OEM tool kit so there they sit on the side of the road for something so simple.

I've posted on several other threads on this forum recently.......I love this bike! 

[grc]

Opinions are like a certain body part, everyone has one.  And even if I don't always say it, I value yours.  Yes, there are positives associated with Harley relative to other brands, and perhaps some of us overlook that when talking about all the negatives.  And trust me, there are plenty of negatives to go with your list of positives.

Much of what bothers me is some of the same stuff that bothered me about my old employer, or other companies that all too often lost sight of the customer in the push to slash costs and create shrines to the ego of certain top executives.  I tend to look at what could be, and then when reality doesn't measure up I'm disappointed.  To me the alternative, just accepting mediocrity or worse, is the same thing as failure.  So I bitch, and hope my bitching eventually leads to positive change.  Tilting at windmills you say?  Yup, that's me.

Jerry

[charles05663]

With today's precision CNC equipment and CAD modeling the reliability of these bikes should be second to none especially for the price paid for them. 

Take cars for example.  I have over 220,000 miles on my Subaru and I might have checked the oil a couple of times since I have had it. It gets serviced every 5,000 to 6,000 miles.  The only issues I have ever had with it are rust related due to Vermont's use of salt on the roads.

In recent years HD has had issues with lifters,  compensators, and other part failures.  Given that lifters and compensator type devices are common to almost every engine and have been for over 100 years I scratch my head as to why a 110+ year old company has issues getting these right.  Certainly the smaller after market guys have don't have quality issues creating replacements parts.

As far as looks, HD is second to none.  But, I would rather drive a dependable car that I can count on than one I can't.  All fluff in their catalog is just that, fluff.

In the end, I am sure HD could create a dependable product if their focus was toward the customer and not the shareholders and company executives.

 

[Chains]

I agree with JC, I can remember riding with guys and having to stop and pick up parts that fell off.  Also remember having to put a cookie sheet under my bikes to keep oil off the garage floor.

My own personal best was a carburetor on my Shovelhead that came loose.  Had to hold on with my right leg until I could pull over and fix it.

Today's bikes are built to ride for the most part.   My 69 Triumph vibrated so bad that afterone hour you had to get off and rest.   Got back on and rode it anyway.

So even though I too bitch about them I do enjoy riding not wrenching.

[AMEDD_SFC]

Allcon:

I like my CVO.  This is my bike. There are many like it, but this one is mine. 

MoCo has come a long way over the years.  They have done a lot to preserve the heritage of biking and to bring countless new folks into the lifestyle. 

We will always hear from the minority of owners who have problems, but will rarely see praise when things just work as they should.  It's like the news.  You will never hear "Today in Smallville, nothing happened."  But you can be sure there will be wall to wall coverage when Joe Biden steals a binkie from a kid and sucks it.  Hey, who am I to judge?

Anyway, my bike works fine, it looks awesome, and the folks at the dealership are really very nice.  I enjoy riding whenever I can on my largely trouble free piece of motorcycle art.

That is all.

M

P.S. Apologies to leathernecks in the crowd.

[FlaHeatWave]

Is it that obvious that I'm overdue for a road trip???

We had bailing wire back then, now we have the " new technology" of zip ties...

Plenty of negatives, definitely room for improvement, but to me HD is ahead of 2nd place...

My Shovel had lifter issues too, the fix was to replace with solids...

That was one of my "personal bests" too LMAO. Then I figured out that the OE bracket coming from the rear rocker box wasn't adequate and fabbed a bracket up from the case center bolt...

I'm glad that my Build Thread has become somewhat uninteresting as of late...
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=91650.0

Its good to hear (from some of the other old farts) about the wrenching / riding ratio of the HDs, when all you had to do was put gas in the Jap bikes of the time...

I'm sure some of y'all remember when the Drag Specialties Book was only 3-4 pages... We were the Harley Aftermarket, Necessity is the Mother of Invention...

'Still trying to figure out if it's "You've come a long way baby" or "Some things never change" 

Peace Out, 'Gotta get some Breeze...

[JCZ]

Come on out......the weather's fine and low humidity! 

Oh, by the way.....don't try using zip ties on that muffler when it comes loose. 

Thanks a bunch for the chuckles.

[MIKEYTEE]

Oh, by the way.....don't try using zip ties on that muffler when it comes loose. 

JC, they now make metal zip ties for just that use. 
Don't ask me how I know they work on the muffler. 
Mike
 

[Rooster]

I still carry a tool kit that has been added to several times over the years. And it was only a few years ago I actually had to use bailing wire to repair my shift linkage that came off as I was rollin along in 4th gear. 

[krypto2011]

With today's precision CNC equipment and CAD modeling the reliability of these bikes should be second to none especially for the price paid for them. 

Take cars for example.  I have over 220,000 miles on my Subaru and I might have checked the oil a couple of times since I have had it. It gets serviced every 5,000 to 6,000 miles.  The only issues I have ever had with it are rust related due to Vermont's use of salt on the roads.

In recent years HD has had issues with lifters,  compensators, and other part failures.  Given that lifters and compensator type devices are common to almost every engine and have been for over 100 years I scratch my head as to why a 110+ year old company has issues getting these right.  Certainly the smaller after market guys have don't have quality issues creating replacements parts.

As far as looks, HD is second to none.  But, I would rather drive a dependable car that I can count on than one I can't.  All fluff in their catalog is just that, fluff.

In the end, I am sure HD could create a dependable product if their focus was toward the customer and not the shareholders and company executives.

 

Holy smokes, a Subaru with 220k and no head gaskets?? That's a good one!!! I am across the river from you and work on subarus every day, and almost all of them need head gaskets replaced before 100k!!!

[charles05663]

Holy smokes, a Subaru with 220k and no head gaskets?? That's a good one!!! I am across the river from you and work on subarus every day, and almost all of them need head gaskets replaced before 100k!!!

I have the 6 cylinder.  No replacement of timing belt either.

 

[krypto2011]

I have the 6 cylinder.  No replacement of timing belt either.

 

Oh yea, good for you, change the oil and run it till the body falls off on the side of the road!!!

[Chains]

I used to stamp seat frame components for Subaru.  The volume was so low I would hope each vehicle got individual attention during the build that they never had a problem.