Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[adkg12]

Last weekend I was forced to put in 89 octane due to the station in the middle of nowhere lacking anything higher!  Its odd, but I didnt hear any ping like you'd normally hear (gravel bouncing off your headers), but it ran like total hell.  I cant really explain it honestly.  It idled bad.  It chattered in 6th gear rolling anything under 65MPH!  It was so bad the rest of the ride was annoying and blah.  So once the tank was empty, I stopped at Sunoco, and put in 93.5 octane, and I cant believe the difference.  So..it leads me to ask the question.  Is that odd chattering (sometimes) around 2800-3100rpm really piston slap, or is it ping of another frequency that doesnt "sound" like the ping I (we) are used to?  I rode all evening yesterday after putting in the better gas and I cant believe the difference.  So, what would it hurt to put in a gallon or so of 100 octane mixed with 93?  They sell it by the racetrack here in Columbus. 
Glen

[deldago]

Just make absolutely sure it has no lead in it or you will be buying new oxygen sensors. My last bike was not fuel injected so I ran 1 gallon of turbo blue per tank and when I took it to a dyno they wouldn't put it on the machine until I had run a few tanks of regular gas through it as the lead in the turbo blue would ruin the sniffer that they put in the exhaust. Of course this was told to me at a Harley dealership so take it for what it's worth. The best part about running race gas was you knew who the gear heads were every time you pulled in somewhere because they would start sniffing and ask are you running race gas in that thing? It definitely has an addictive smell to it once you have spent some time at the drag strip!

[adkg12]

Oh I know that smell all too well.  I always ran a little in my fuel mixture of my old 82 Honda CR250R.  Man I miss that bike!  Meaner than a rattlesnake!  No one that I know ever rode that damned thing that didnt break a bone!  Including me (right ankle 6" plate with 8 screws and 1 screw upwards into the other bone)!  Damn thing would climb a tree and not even bog!! Anyway...I will check into the possibility of lead in my fuel before I do it.  Question though, if you arent using O2 sensors as you would unplug with some tuners, would it matter at this point?  And would it change your fuel map if you were tuned with 93 octane?  I could see where it might , ever so slightly.
Glen

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Leaded fuel has long been removed from the pumps ( unless you find a station that sells race fuel) .

Many times you just got bad fuel. 89 will run and if you can get it to run without ping it has the potential to produce more power as the fuel is more volatile.  ( lower octane number faster burn rate)

Adding in the the "E" factor ....  Short version its used to allow the bonding of water molecules to the fuel to increase octane rating , However bad side is it will evaporate and when it does the water molecules fall out of suspension and now you just have water in your fuel. 

 E is much like " dry gas" it just breaks the water down into smaller particles and the engine can burn them.    E85 has great use in performance other than you need close to 30% more by volume  for same given set up. But it runs extremely cool and you can stack the compression to the engine. But hard to find, does not like cold weather, you need larger pumps and injectors to scale it all correctly based on your application.

If you want to read until your eyes bleed tons of info out there for " corn juice" 

[ultrarider123]

A note on race fuel at the pump....it no longer has lead in it.  Still a higher octane level but no lead.  NASCAR went to unleaded a couple years ago in their race fuel.  I haven't seen good, old leaded fuel (regular or race) anywhere in a couple years now....

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Last weekend I was forced to put in 89 octane due to the station in the middle of nowhere lacking anything higher!  Its odd, but I didnt hear any ping like you'd normally hear (gravel bouncing off your headers), but it ran like total hell.  I cant really explain it honestly.  It idled bad.  It chattered in 6th gear rolling anything under 65MPH!  It was so bad the rest of the ride was annoying and blah.  So once the tank was empty, I stopped at Sunoco, and put in 93.5 octane, and I cant believe the difference.  So..it leads me to ask the question.  Is that odd chattering (sometimes) around 2800-3100rpm really piston slap, or is it ping of another frequency that doesnt "sound" like the ping I (we) are used to?  I rode all evening yesterday after putting in the better gas and I cant believe the difference.  So, what would it hurt to put in a gallon or so of 100 octane mixed with 93?  They sell it by the racetrack here in Columbus. 
Glen

The words "piston slap" sound very aggressive, especially when that terminology is kicked around like a soccer ball by some outfits.
If the said piston slap existed, as much as some would lead folks to believe, there would be 55 gallon drums full of pistons with cracked skirts, and we all know that ain't the case.

[adkg12]

The words "piston slap" sound very aggressive, especially when that terminology is kicked around like a soccer ball by some outfits.
If the said piston slap existed, as much as some would lead folks to believe, there would be 55 gallon drums full of pistons with cracked skirts, and we all know that ain't the case.

I am only calling it piston slap because other people that have had that same noise, eliminated it (so they claim), by changing the jugs and pistons...and there was evidence in most cases of contact (pics). All I know is the noise was CRAZY loud all through the power band and I couldnt even cruise lightly at 65MPH in 6th.  And I am pretty sure I should be able to.  But after going back to 93, all of that is virtually gone.!  I did not hear any ping at all at any time that sounded like the ping we are all usually talking about during this period.  And honestly roll on power was more responsive but the noise was way loud and consistent.
I wont really know anything I guess until I remove the jugs and look see.!!

Leaded fuel has long been removed from the pumps ( unless you find a station that sells race fuel) .

Many times you just got bad fuel. 89 will run and if you can get it to run without ping it has the potential to produce more power as the fuel is more volatile.  ( lower octane number faster burn rate)
ce"

So do you think that the "change" was related to the fuel Steve?  Either the octane or bad gas?  I know that there CAN be detonation at specific places throughout the cycle.  Near TDC, if I am not mistaken, is where you get the "ping" sound we are so familiar with.  But in the middle or lower, you might not hear that but it is still happening and cause performance issues and potential damage to the piston, rings, etc...  No?
Thank you
Glen

glen

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Poor pump gas,  tuner that is a best guess sort of thing  = poor performance.

If you want to ride it toss that tuner buy something that really works re tune what you have until you can opt for something else.

You will be much happier with a correctly tuned bike. Good luck

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

I am only calling it piston slap because other people that have had that same noise, eliminated it (so they claim), by changing the jugs and pistons...and there was evidence in most cases of contact (pics). All I know is the noise was CRAZY loud all through the power band and I couldnt even cruise lightly at 65MPH in 6th.  And I am pretty sure I should be able to.  But after going back to 93, all of that is virtually gone.!  I did not hear any ping at all at any time that sounded like the ping we are all usually talking about during this period.  And honestly roll on power was more responsive but the noise was way loud and consistent.
I wont really know anything I guess until I remove the jugs and look see.!!
 
So do you think that the "change" was related to the fuel Steve?  Either the octane or bad gas?  I know that there CAN be detonation at specific places throughout the cycle.  Near TDC, if I am not mistaken, is where you get the "ping" sound we are so familiar with.  But in the middle or lower, you might not hear that but it is still happening and cause performance issues and potential damage to the piston, rings, etc...  No?
Thank you
Glen

glen

I'd run the 93 if it responding to it.
Scott

[adkg12]

Poor pump gas,  tuner that is a best guess sort of thing  = poor performance.

If you want to ride it toss that tuner buy something that really works re tune what you have until you can opt for something else.

You will be much happier with a correctly tuned bike. Good luck

Yep...every damned thing costs money lol...worse than a boat lmao!  I can't decide what to do first.  Tuner/tune, true duals, rebuild, etc lol..
Glen

[harleytuner]

Run 93 when you can, throw a bottle of octane boost in your bag for when you can't get 93. One of the things I like about having my Vision is the ability to hold multiple MAP's in it.  Since I have a dyno I tuned my bike on 87 octane and saved it in a slot, so if i'm on the road I can just change MAPs real quick if I can't get a better grade of fuel.

[dano]

X 2 on the octane boost, I carry some with me and give it a little in the tank when needed

[MadCVORG]

When I'm not riding, I drive an older (2001) BMW.  I normally use 89 or 91, but both have 10% ethanol. BMWs have an MPG meter built into their trip computer, so I can say that over the past 6 years, I averaged 21mpg over the long haul.  Never saw a reason to reset the meter.

Recently, I went onto www.gasbuddy.com, which shows stations that sell non-ethanol gas. I started using a local station's 93 octane; over 4 tankfuls, about 1,400 miles, I average 25mpg under the same driving conditions. Mileage on the highway is 29mpg; I haven't seen it that high in years.

As a side, I used this gas in my '95 FLSTF; whereas I've always had problems starting it up in the past, with the non-ethanol, it kicked right over after sitting two months.
I'm a firm believer in avoiding ethanol-blend fuel when I can.

[ozrider]

Here in Oz we can choose between regular ULP at 91 octane, premium ULP at 95 octane, or Ultimate at 98 octane.

Doesn't really matter which one of the Harleys or the Fords, the 98 Ultimate gives best performance and mileage all round on it.

Mileage on the Ford Truck per tank runs at 550, 600, and 680 respectively on 91, 95, and 98.

The Harleys refuse to play the game on 91, are OK on 95, and run sweet as on the 98.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Over here years ago there were several Sunoco stations than had above-ground tanks that had 100 octane.
Ran that in a 108" Shovel quite often............super-smooooooth going down the road,(not a rubber-glide, engine was tied to the frame) beautiful plug color, pipes had a light gray color as well.
Oh, almost forgot........no custom map.
Scott