Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[johnmowcop]

I cannot seem to find any reports on the Rushmore engines. Are they better, more durable, more powerful, do they burn oil, does the liquid cooling to the head make any difference?

JohnT

[twinotter]

  Emission dictates the way these run, very lean AFR's mean they run much hotter than they should. Stifled intake and exhaust means they work harder to achieve the same results attained by properly tuned engines. The "liquid cooled" heads is a little misleading, it only helps to control the extreme heat around the exhaust valves, preventing previous issues with stuck valves, guides loosening and valve seats coming loose. They still run all the latest failures, crappy "C" lifters, silly putty crankshafts that can shift without any warning, 4rth or is it 5th generation of 07 up compensator, still not 100% resolved!  Hydraulic clutches that don't clutch or quit  etc.
  This all stems from HD's pennypinching cost cutting profit absorbed management imo.
I love my 01 Dyna, but wouldn't consider a new one. fwiw  twinotter

[grc]

I don't know that I would call the 2014/2015 models a "new generation of V-Twins".  The Twin Cooled bikes are just a stop-gap measure meant to test the waters, so to speak, before they eventually have to do a proper water cooled engine.  Once they get the bagger folks used to having radiators on the bikes with lowers, they will then have to find a way to do it without lowers.  That will be the big test, getting traditional Harley riders to accept a radiator sitting out in plain sight for all the world to see.  I expect it to be more of a problem than some may think, since many of these folks have been very vocal over the years when bashing the other guys with radiators on their bikes, like Honda for instance.

I'm not aware of much difference in the actual mechanical parts other than the 2013 change on the 110's to the lifters and inner cam bearings.  The compensator issues still don't seem to be resolved completely, the flexible crankshafts are still the same, and the MoCo has had to issue three clutch recalls on the Rushed More bikes in less than two years so far.  The only thing I can see as an improvement is that the bikes with the water cooled heads (exhaust port area only) should run more consistent head temps, which will lead to better reliability, less detonation, etc..

JMHO - Jerry

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

We've been in the "hydro-glide" engines, for power upgrades on several occasions now.
Nothing good, bad, or ugly from what we've seen.
Liquid-cooled heads.......nothing really special.
Scott

[mike jesse]

When I bought my 14 CVO RK I replaced the lifters as a precaution. Pulled them with 300 miles on the clock and they already had the wheels looking ugly.
Pinion TIR was right at .001 in.

The last few flywheels I've checked have all be quite good in that respect.

IMO the lifters are a must do ASAP.

  Emission dictates the way these run, very lean AFR's mean they run much hotter than they should. Stifled intake and exhaust means they work harder to achieve the same results attained by properly tuned engines. The "liquid cooled" heads is a little misleading, it only helps to control the extreme heat around the exhaust valves, preventing previous issues with stuck valves, guides loosening and valve seats coming loose. They still run all the latest failures, crappy "C" lifters, silly putty crankshafts that can shift without any warning, 4rth or is it 5th generation of 07 up compensator, still not 100% resolved!  Hydraulic clutches that don't clutch or quit  etc.
  This all stems from HD's pennypinching cost cutting profit absorbed management imo.
I love my 01 Dyna, but wouldn't consider a new one. fwiw  twinotter

[smkymtnboy]

As usual in internet discussions, it appears that so far we have people that insist on bashing with no direct experience.

I will admit to limited(2000 miles) experience, but I can tell you a couple things about the Twin Cooled engine.
This is based of a '15 RGU CVO, 110", stock with only Rinehart exhaust and a stage1 download.
I have a Power Vision tuner connected to it, but have not tuned it, only monitoring for now.
My previous bike was an '11 RGU with the 103".

#1. According to the Power Vision, which I run permanently mounted on the bike, the water cooled engine runs considerably cooler than the air cooled 103 I was on before. Per the actual temp readings, it runs 50-60* lower head temps. Typically my 103 ran 260 temps at 60mph and 80* ambient temps. The 110 runs right at 200* head temp and approx. 160* water temp. The highest head temp I've seen so far when sitting in mild traffic was approx. 230*.

#2. The Power Vision will also show me knock events. I have not been able to make the engine ping no matter how hard I try. Haven't heard a ping or seen a knock event on the PV display.

IMO the water cooling works great, and if a rider didn't know the radiators were there they'd never know it from the driver's seat.
I've not yet been able to detect any heat coming from the cooling system, unless I hold my hand directly over the vents.
A couple times when we've stopped the fans have been running, which we were completely unaware of before the engine was shut off.
The fans run for 30 seconds or less before shutting off.
From the seat, this bike puts out MUCH less heat than the 103" motor.
I too was one that poo-poo'd the water cooling, but now that I own it I like it, and find it much more comfortable than other water cooled bikes I've ridden.

 Longevity??  Obviously I can't say from experience, however there are some things going on that could result in issues.
At 55 cubic inches/cylinder, this engine is roughly the same as a 440cu/inch V8. The difference being that this engine only has a 4" bore, so in order to get the cubes the stroke has to longer. Longer stroke typically means longer connecting rods so the pistons clear the crankshaft, however if you have a height restriction you have to make the pistons shorter. Shorter pistons will be less stable in the bore, which can cause issues with wear and eventually oil consumption and lost compression.
 I too have heard of issues with valve seals and valve guide wear. I'm tempted to believe these are from the air cooled motors, and that the water cooled will have less of an issue.  The smaller air cooled motors haven't had a remarkable issue with seals and guides, not sure why the 110 would other than from heat??

I think you will probably find more experience here than any other place you could visit!!!

[Paulcvo]

 Got new Mercury CVO Street Glide in June and took it out to California. Listened to tunes on the boom box head set all the way...awesome.  Rode in 100 deb F heat and twin cooled engine worked well compared to air cooled 110". Very little pinging; my air cooled Road Glide 110" would have run poorly in that heat. I think MoCo has hit a home run with this CVO. TPK.

[twinotter]

Agreed, but the first couple replies were not those people.....

  Please come back when you have 30K on the bike with a list of repairs, in or out of warranty.
I'll be waiting to see if you still have the big "Harley smile" then.
FWIW, I consider your opinion, 2K, as no opinion at all, any new HD will go that far trouble free! Maybe!!
Enjoy your new ride til you can't   Buffalo

[Ridgerunr]

We don't need no stinking radiators. 
If Harley Davidson would just quit with the cheap crank, lifters and compensator, require dealers to properly train techs to tune and spend the time necessary for a complete tune, these machines will run and run and run. 100,000 miles was common on some years of Evo bikes, and early TC's. The same guys who complain of no radiator, will complain when one becomes OE. They'll say how ugly etc. etc. and how the sound has changed. If folks are looking for a magic bullet, they won't find it in the corporate mentality. Goldwings and Beemers have their share of maladays and like HD always will as long as shareholders are the main focus.

[johnmowcop]

By OP

Now then girls calm down and stop falling out.


tdkkart asked; "The facts are that Harley is still selling thousands of bikes every year, and while the buyers may not be the brightest, you can bet if they were really having
all the problems that keep the forums populated there'd be some unhappy people.  Where are they??"

Having bought seven of them over the last seventeen years I think I might be acquiring a taste for the bikes. But, this one I have now - 2011 CVO Ultra RG - is just beginning to soak up oil at an unacceptable rate at just 19.5k miles. Which, while I am not the brightest ,as tdkkart put it, it is beginning to turn my acquired taste into a feeling of nausea. (Hey, I'm pretty pleased with that for off the cuff!!). tdkkart, you ask "where are they" well there is one beginning to fester here.

[bigdave110]

PRAISE BEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!  The LORD has risen.   

[twinotter]

  I like to think it is BECAUSE of forums like this that maybe, just maybe, HD might realize that the population is becoming more informed about what they are buying, and what can happen to that piece of equipment down the road.
 All I know is that with the huge expense everyone incurs in purchasing a new HD, you are not getting the value you should be receiving.  HD has done everything possible it can do to cut costs, while maintaining profits, all the while denying claims by the "they all do that" attitude.
You should be getting much more for your hard earned dollars, imo.
Also remember, HD counts on at least 75% of the new owners riding less than 5000miles a year, 2 yrs = 10k, then its on your dime to fix it. The modern(??) HD has just enough build quality to get most of them thru the warranty period, after that, they could care less if it fails.
 They heavily promote ESP programs to cover their butts, and the vast majority just accepts this as normal like a bunch of sheep being led to slaughter. Maybe they deserve what they get, but they can do much better, in fact they already did with the original Twin Cam of 00-02, they had a very solid engine/tranny/ clutch package, that with minor tweaks (hyd tensioners) would be as bulletproof as could be made. Since 03, they have continuously dropped the component quality on almost everything on these bikes, from wheel bearings to crankshafts, all for the profit margin.  jm2cw  Buffalo

[Para Bellum]

The facts are that Harley is still selling thousands of bikes every year, and while the buyers may not be the brightest, you can bet if they were really having all the problems that keep the forums populated there'd be some unhappy people.  Where are they??

Not all of those people are on this forum, or any other, so unless we know them some other way, we aren't likely to hear about the problems.  So there might be a whole country of those unhappy people out there we don't know about.  Further, until we get a large enough sample from the population of owners (like on here), we don't know which problems are a one-time occurrence, and which are common to a specific model/engine/year/lifter.

Then there are the first-time Harley owners, or those coming back after an absence, who aren't up-to-date on the changes at MoCo and how MoCo executive's love affair with short-term corporate stock prices has lead to the cheapest designs, parts, and manufacturing processes available.  For example, the switch from Timken tapered bearings to plain bearings for the crankshaft saved money for the company, but cost some owners a lot of heartache and money.  Same with cheap lifters.  And you won't hear it from the dealers; instead; it's "they all do that" or "never seen one do that before."

[Para Bellum]

Very seldom All the time on this forum do you see a new post that says "Hey guys, just wanted to stop by and let you know my bike is running great."

In my experience there are far more owners out there that have never been to a forum than those that have.  So you wouldn't hear from them, and you wouldn't know they're unhappy.  Kinda undermines your argument.

[grc]

This is far from the first time that we've had someone come on the site and badmouth us for not being true believers and drinkers of the official Kool-Aid.  I truly enjoy it when some of them make an azz of themselves and go on and on about the umpteen Harley's they've owned and never had a problem, then they have their latest leave them on the side of the road somewhere.

There are no absolutes.  Not every Harley is destined to fail miserably, not every customer is going to be treated like the scrapings from a cowboy's boots.  But as long as many customers are treated that way, and as long as significant numbers of Harley's suffer failures due to Harley's poor quality control and engineering, then bringing these things out in the open is a good thing that could eventually benefit everyone, even the Kool-Aid drinkers.  Just look at what happened in the American auto business after the similar problems they had in the late 70's and early 80's.  They finally got religion, so to speak, and started focusing on the customer.  Even H-D might eventually see the light.

Jerry