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Author Topic: Amsoil verses HD Synthetic  (Read 21187 times)

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RAINEY

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Re: Amsoil verses HD Synthetic
« Reply #60 on: October 17, 2015, 08:50:52 AM »

Anyone actually know of an engine that went bad from oil in last 15 years? I would have to agree with previous poster the inferior part was more likely the cause. Example SE lifters- many different oils and users but common part to go bad. Doubt oil caused it. Another example ball bearings on 99-01 Tc's cams. Again the part.
Amsoil sells because of the fear oil cant do its job. Most all syn oils will be fine and as proof just look around any major event. Bet there is 50 different combos of oil being used and this last year close to 1,000,000 at Sturgis. Anywhere from new to 100,000 miles on them. Various levels of maintenance and tune. Babied to beat to snot.  Anyone know how many had an oil breakdown there? Impossible to know but again more likely a weak part.

Fear of oil break down sells. Show a part with some wear and blame the oil, scare the consumer into thinking he is next.

The only cases where oil has actually caused a failure is when an oil that didn't meet specifications was installed or the wrong oil type all together was installed.  There have been several blenders shut down and fined for bottling poor quality oil or packaging oil.  (i.e. transmission oil in an engine oil bottle).  These companies get really good at making their bottles appear to have a quality product inside and have the labels look like they're a newer formulation but in fine print state the actual specification.  Believe it or not there's some oil packaged in newer containers that is spec'd for pre- WWII vehicles.  See below for some resources.

http://www.motoroilmatters.org/

http://www.pqiamerica.com/index.html

Check out the consumer alerts section.  You will be surprised at what is really out there. 

If you are purchasing a quality national branded product that meets specification you will most likely never have an "Oil Related Failure"

Jason



 
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skycat

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Re: Amsoil verses HD Synthetic
« Reply #61 on: October 17, 2015, 04:45:08 PM »

You will always get what you pay for, just go for the top shelf and stop trying to save a buck as it may come back and bite later.. :nixweiss:
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Re: Amsoil verses HD Synthetic
« Reply #62 on: November 15, 2015, 07:35:38 PM »

HD Syn3 made by Citgo , low quality oil not sure why HD went cheap . Better oil brands out there , I use Mobil 1 V Twin synthetic and Spectro synthetic in the tranny in my Softail CVO. Neutral easy to find and transmission quieter.


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« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 12:32:00 AM by Yorktown CVO »
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BigLew

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Re: Amsoil verses HD Synthetic
« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2015, 09:48:53 AM »

I was told that Mobil 1 has changed there formula? anyone hear anything about this?

BigLew
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Re: Amsoil verses HD Synthetic
« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2015, 11:49:10 AM »

I was told that Mobil 1 has changed there formula? anyone hear anything about this?

BigLew

Nope.  Who told you this, and since Mobil is unlikely to share proprietary information like that with just anyone, how would he know?  Wouldn't happen to be someone promoting a different brand, would it?

Formulations probably change fairly often, based on constantly changing prices for the various components that make up the finished product.  As long as the product still meets all the performance specs, your engine will never know the difference.

Jerry
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Re: Amsoil verses HD Synthetic
« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2015, 12:19:19 PM »



Formulations probably change fairly often, based on constantly changing prices for the various components that make up the finished product.  As long as the product still meets all the performance specs, your engine will never know the difference.

Jerry
This also make me believe that the 'warnings' about changing/mixing brands oil are BS as well.
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ultrafxr

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Re: Amsoil verses HD Synthetic
« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2015, 04:20:18 PM »

HD Syn3 make by Citgo , low quality oil not sure why HD went cheap . Better oil brands out there , I use Mobil 1 V Twin synthetic and Spectro synthetic in the tranny in my Softail CVO. Neutral easy to find and transmission quieter.

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Not sure how you determined that.  Syn3 stacks up quite well against other major brands in the various tests that have been posted on this site previously.  No motor oil is at the top in every category - just does not happen.  But Mobil 1, Amsoil and Syn3 are all quality viable products imo and that of many others.  What it comes down to is personal preference - an oh yeah, price.   ;D
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Dan_Lockwood

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Re: Amsoil verses HD Synthetic
« Reply #67 on: November 17, 2015, 11:42:47 AM »

HD Syn3 make by Citgo , low quality oil not sure why HD went cheap . Better oil brands out there , I use Mobil 1 V Twin synthetic and Spectro synthetic in the tranny in my Softail CVO. Neutral easy to find and transmission quieter.


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As ultrafxr has stated, Syn3 is a quality oil.

As you've stated you feel that because it's made by Citgo that it's not a high quality oil.

A little story from a few years back.

I used to get called into Union Carbide, now First Brands the maker of Prestone Antifreeze.  Our equipment is used in their plants to finish making the bottles that they use to fill with Prestone antifreeze.

While there I noticed bottles with labels for Peak antifreeze, Chrysler antifreeze, Wal-Mart antifreeze, and the list went on.  I was talking with the floor supervisor about all the different brands they fill and he said that each one is its own formulation.  He said that if I wanted to buy the best, I should by Chrysler antifreeze.  He said it had additives and such that were superior to even Prestone's formulation.  The process was like this, once the production run was done and all the bottles were filled, they shut down and purge the lines of all product and then flush them afterwards to make sure they are clean of the previous product.

I've also been in oil bottle filling plants that use our equipment and their process is exactly the same.  Most fillers provide oil for many different customers and brands.  So just because it's made in a Citgo plant does NOT mean that it's Citgo's oil formulation.  And I highly doubt that Citgo oil is a bad oil.

I used Syn3 for the first couple changes and then went to Amsoil.  I had no issues with the Syn3, but SO many here have suggested other brands to be superior to the Syn3 in noise reduction and temp control.  I personally have used Amsoil for decades and have always been impressed with it.

In my street rod that held 9 quarts of oil, I used Mobil 1 racing 20/50 and had great luck with it.  In fact largely due to the use of the Mobil 1, I saved my crank and block.  Now granted had I been using any other quality synthetic oil, I probably would have the same results, but in that case Mobil 1 was cheaper and easier to get locally for me, at least at that time.  Today my HD dealer has Amsoil on their oil products shelf and it's readily available.  But not to be out done, I switched again and this time I'm using Liqui-Moly full synthetic.  My mind tells me there's less noise now, but honestly it's purely subjective and very hard to prove one way or the other.  The only thing I'm sure of like ultrafxr said, I highly doubt I'll ever having any failures due to the oil I'm using.
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Re: Amsoil verses HD Synthetic
« Reply #68 on: November 29, 2015, 11:23:57 AM »

AO has preferred customer programs out there that make it a no brainier and pricing is crazy good...did i just give up my secret crank case sauce   ???
Sorry for jumping in late in the discussion, I was the same but for $10. for 6 months, (and renewed for 5 years for $75.) I joined the preferred customer list and received a discount here in Las Vegas and pick up the oil at the distributor and the cost is $9.43 a quart tax (8.1%) included. The discount is on all Amsoil Products. Not pushing or peddling Amsoil just trying to save people some money. I buy the case or cases of oil for all of my buddies.
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cahdbiker

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Re: Amsoil verses HD Synthetic
« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2015, 09:33:31 PM »

Hi Ken, if you have a Walmart near your home you should check out their auto section. They have Mobil 1 for a lot less than $8.99 per quart. I paid a little over $26.00 for 5 quarts last time I was there. CAHDBIKER


If the stealers could figure out a way to charge you for Genuine H-D Air while in the place, THEY WOULD!

I used to run AMSoil fairly religiously - but these days I just run Mobil 1 20W-50, and I buy it when it's on sale at AutoZone or wherever. Last time, I think I paid $8.99/qt.

Ken
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Re: Amsoil verses HD Synthetic
« Reply #70 on: December 04, 2015, 12:02:28 PM »

I thought Syn3 must be good it's some of the most expensive oil. :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
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Re: Amsoil verses HD Synthetic
« Reply #71 on: December 04, 2015, 09:44:19 PM »

I thought Syn3 must be good it's some of the most expensive oil. :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
And like everything else HD sells under their name, it's made by the lowest bidder.  I wonder if it's actually made in China or some other 3rd world country?  If so, I wouldn't count on it being up to specs.   :oops:
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ultrafxr

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Re: Amsoil verses HD Synthetic
« Reply #72 on: December 04, 2015, 11:40:00 PM »

And like everything else HD sells under their name, it's made by the lowest bidder.  I wonder if it's actually made in China or some other 3rd world country?  If so, I wouldn't count on it being up to specs.   :oops:

Let's think about this.  Now we all agree that the moco does some very strange things in order to save a buck.  But pushing substandard lubricants would be the very definition of insanity since that could lead to failures and repair claims during the two year factory warranty period.  I'll not defend the moco on all that much but their lubricants are A-OK imo.  I may prefer a different brand for various reasons but as far as meeting current specs I have no doubt the moco lubricants all do.
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Re: Amsoil verses HD Synthetic
« Reply #73 on: December 05, 2015, 07:48:13 AM »

Let's think about this.  Now we all agree that the moco does some very strange things in order to save a buck.  But pushing substandard lubricants would be the very definition of insanity since that could lead to failures and repair claims during the two year factory warranty period.  I'll not defend the moco on all that much but their lubricants are A-OK imo.  I may prefer a different brand for various reasons but as far as meeting current specs I have no doubt the moco lubricants all do.
I agree with you that it would be insane, at least under more "normal" conditions.  What do I mean by normal?  How about:  something that is driven 10K to 15K miles per year, instead of 2K to 5K yearly like many bikes.  So HD's 2-year warranty really covers less than 10K miles.  How good does the oil have to be to get the engine to 10K miles, especially with 2 to 3 changes?  After that 2 years, unless you've paid the big bucks for the ESP, when a bad lifter/inner cam bearing/inner primary bearing/valve guide/valve stem/valve seat dumps, it will benefit HD (and/or an indie) at your expense.  And Oh, BTW, if your whole engine didn't get taken out by the bad whatever, you probably find the cylinders are out of round and/or tapered, so you need a bore and hone plus oversize pistons/rings.  So HD might be insane, but it might be crazy like a fox.  They don't have any real incentive to put in good oil.

Warning:  rant approaching, not necessarily about Syn3:  Then, consider that in just over 10K miles, there are 3 scheduled services, which if done at the dealer will cost from $1200 to $1500.  How many car owners expect to pay that much for routine maintenance in what amounts to one year's mileage?

I'd guess most people would expect to get at least 100,000 miles out of a new car engine without rebuilding the top end.  How many of us, who've had 2 or more recent Harleys, truly expect that from our bikes?  I sure don't.  And how about a car that you have to pay twice for parts and labor to replace the factory windshield, steering wheel, seats, GPS and stereo because the factory won't let you order the ones you want?  And you're forced to buy your tires from the dealer b/c, by design, nobody makes the appropriate load rating in that size...or you can spend some more bucks to replace the nearly-new and expensive rims.

Yes, I'm a cynic, and it's not just b/c of HD, but they certainly accelerated and strengthened the journey. 
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Re: Amsoil verses HD Synthetic
« Reply #74 on: December 05, 2015, 08:50:45 AM »


OK, so you won't listen to the informed opinions of others on the site, so how about looking at what one of their competitors (in the oil business) had to say about SYN3.  I'm attaching the overall results page from the Amsoil comparison test report from several years back.  Note that SYN3 came in at #4 out of 17 tested, well above some products that are often offered up around here as being a "better choice" than SYN3.

Believe what you want, based on your politics or whatever, but when a diehard non-fan of H-D like me says their oil is a good product, there must be some reason for me to do so.

Jerry
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