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[Para Bellum]

Grumpy much this morning?   

Syn3's score of 68 is a long way from AMSoil's 30 or even Mobil V2's 45.  If you like Syn3, use it.  That doesn't mean it's good.  I believe what I know based on 40 years experience in chemical engineering, corporate reality, and keeping equipment running in high stress conditions, not on my politics.

[Rooster]

Actually Mr. Para's list of issues covered most of it. 

[iski]

I put as much stock in studies that are done (paid for) by companies selling that product -including Amsoil - that prove their product is the best of the bestest as I do in believing the claims made by laundry detergents, each company claiming to be brighter than bright, cleaner than clean, new & improved, and able to work wonders & chit baby cucumbers.

I have used Amsoil in the past. Good results, high price point compared to some but not to others.  Price has little to do with good quality, but the consumer has been taught differently so that is a very hard sell.  Amsoil is a very oily oil, as oily as any other oil, but not more oily than others oils, which are also very oily. 

People use what they like & trust.  I used Havoline in my cars for many, many years since that's what my Dad used.  Then, I changed my mind.  Used to use Castrol only in my dirt bikes & first street bike because that is what I started out using & it worked well.  Then I changed my mind.

We are due another wax/polish thread to argue discuss which is better & why yours is not better but mine is.  Or maybe another magical gas elixir additive thread promising better HP & more mileage.  But no more nitrogen vs atmosphere tire air threads please.  For the children.   

[Rooster]

The truth for me is I buy other brands because they are several dollars per qt than Syn3

[grc]

Parabellum,

Yes, I'm grumpy most of the time these days.  That, and the fact that I don't actually use SYN3 for reasons other than the quality of the product, doesn't change facts.  While we may distrust H-D, for many good reasons, or some may hate Citgo, also for many good reasons, those are usually not the reasons many people on these sites cite for not using SYN3.  I'm referring to all the folks who just parrot what someone else claimed about SYN3 being a crappy product.  Compared to the other similar products on the market, it is not.  Is it the "best"?  Depends on how anyone defines that, but based strictly on the test results for the characteristics on that chart I'd say it probably isn't the absolute "best" available.  Note that even Amsoil and Mobil 1 didn't rank highest on every category btw.  Motor oils tend to be products built to a price point and contain many compromises, as is the case for most products in this world.

My point is that bashing SYN3 just because everyone else does or because we don't like H-D and it's methods is not a valid review of the product.  It exceeds the manufacturers requirements as well as the industry standards, as do most of the other similar products.  That leads us to the next useless argument, how much "better" than good enough is necessary, and can you actually prove that using a motor oil that exceeds the manufacturers requirements by 20% for instance versus one that just meets the standards provides some beneficial result?  Since no one around here has done such real world testing, and the only information available is the BS from the various oil company marketing departments, I'm guessing there is no real benefit for the average consumer. 

I run Mobil 1 btw, just because I like it and can find it easily.  If the only thing available was SYN3 I would run that without losing a moment of sleep.

Jerry

[Para Bellum]

Citgo--now I understand your mention of politics.  No, nothing against S3 b/c of Citgo.  And while I'm with you about the paying company coming in #1, I also remember the court case where a judge ruled that highly refined natural oil could be called synthetic.  Without going into a diatribe about molecular organic chemistry and physical chemistry:  It just ain't so.  No matter how much it's refined, natural oil will never equal true synthetic oil.  So any company that's not using 100% PAOs for their synthetic is BS-ing the public, and that disqualifies them for me.  And I'm not dissing S3 b/c others have---since I'm an AMSoil preferred customer, I can buy it for less than S3 (and many others) and benefit financially from the extended drain interval without risking the engine.  And if I AMSoil had never been developed, I'd use the next best syn and adjust my drain intervals according to its capability.