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Author Topic: Question about SE 58mm throttle body  (Read 5597 times)

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Touring83

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Question about SE 58mm throttle body
« on: April 06, 2016, 09:45:06 AM »

I am looking to upgrade a couple more things on my 2014 CVO Road King. Currently I have Fullsac DX head pipes, and Kuryakyn Crusher exhaust. Currently making 100HP/115TQ.

I’m interested in upgrading cams, and possibly to an SE 58mm throttle body. I’ve tried to research diligently on the throttle body and I am finding mixed opinions. Some say the stock throttle body is plenty for what I am wanting to do and there wouldn't be a huge benefit to upgrading. Some even say the bike may be sluggish at parking lot speeds if I upgrade it. They are giving the impression that it is only necessary for bigger HP/TQ builds to be utilized correctly.

Others are saying the throttle body alone, even without cams, is a nice upgrade. I’ve also heard that the stock heads already “out flow” the stock throttle body.

Some additional feedback and opinions would be great. This has been more stressful than buying a house. The internet can be both a good and bad thing for this stuff!  8)

 Thank you!
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Sarhan

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Re: Question about SE 58mm throttle body
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2016, 12:33:13 PM »

58tb for cam upgrade only will not be noticeable, I will consider GMR577 or GMR600 cams as Bolt-on becuase they will work with any future plans for upgrading to next level 113 or 117

577 showed excellent HP/TQ gain on stock 110 but I haven't seen the 600 on stock motor

Sarhan
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Touring83

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Re: Question about SE 58mm throttle body
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2016, 03:04:24 PM »

Thank you! I was actually looking for a bolt-in option for cams. Looking at the 577’s you mentioned, TTS 100, and T-man 555 Torqsters. Just want to spend a lot of time searching for graphs that have at least my similar build before making a decision.
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FLSTFI Dave

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Re: Question about SE 58mm throttle body
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2016, 09:35:34 PM »

I run a HPI 55 throttle body and 5.3 gpm on my 13 CVO King.  I have head work, 10.8 to 1 compression and SE 259E cams.  Went with the 55 as we felt 58 was more than I need and wanted crisper throttle response.  I'm at 122 HP and 121 Torque.

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North Star

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Re: Question about SE 58mm throttle body
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2016, 01:43:27 AM »

I recall Steve from Fullsac saying he put on the SE58 TB on, I think, his new Street Glide with the TTS100 cams. I asked him why the SE TB with no big mods, and he said there was no downside to doing it. Hope that helps.
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Re: Question about SE 58mm throttle body
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2016, 08:43:20 AM »


I doubt the increase from 50mm to 58mm would cause the low speed performance of the bike to suck, assuming it's tuned properly.  On the other hand, I doubt the benefits, if any, would make for an impressive cost/benefit ratio either.  EFI is more forgiving than back in the old carb days, when using too large a carburetor would in fact cause major problems.  But I still like the scientific approach, as opposed to just throwing parts at an engine.  The trick is finding good flow data for the stock components as well as the new part.  Using a TB that flows significantly more air than the rest of the engine is pretty much a waste of money, even if it doesn't make the engine run like chit.  I think I'd contact some of the folks who actually do flow testing for their opinions on your proposed changes.

JMHO - Jerry
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fastfreddy

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Re: Question about SE 58mm throttle body
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2016, 06:48:10 PM »

when i done my build (see below) was told by TR that a larger Tbody was not needed but suggested port matching, so thats the direction i went with mine, stock injectors and stock blade and makes 120 HP  :nixweiss:
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GMR-PERFORMANCE

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Re: Question about SE 58mm throttle body
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2016, 09:45:27 AM »

The stock CVO 110 heads out flow CFM wise a 50 MM stock FBW unit.. I have not used the 600 in a 110 as the stock comp ratio is too low to properly support the cam , However I have used the 600 with the 113 kit with stock heads ( yes zero porting) 58 bolt on FBW unit and it has gone repeatably over 120 Hp and tq in the 127-130 range .

two examples pf the 600 with no head work and 10.5-10.6  comp ratio ,


Myself have tuned way too many of these engines with stock units and not one has ever gone over 117 hp , and we tried , you mioght get it there but cam would have to be large and mega comp ratio and even then I think the tq curve would suffer down low.. SO understand what I am saying.. With a proper kit that produces good low range the 120+ mark I feel is not going to happen..  In fact you can do the math based on CFM and the unit cannot get there its a restriction..  I have run 124 engines with stock units and still not able to get there..  But with all of that testing I could be wrong  :nixweiss: 


Port matching is one thing that I feel gets mis used term wise...  Core shift is one thing that creates a issue.. The bolt holes are set up to be drilled its not an item that gets set up based on where the port really is..  SO lets say the head is great and the port is flowing as it should, but its slightly shifted , so now you want to enlarge the port opening to make it a smooth transition.. This sounds like a good method , however when ti comes down to what really works vs theory .. well lets say that I have tuned bikes that had 1.800 manifold running on a box stock 103 head head with a 1.660 ish port .. you would think that it would hit that step and cause issue.. Well we in fact have seen it many times as we did not build it just tuned it.. and they will get the right manifold we re check it nothing happens.. have seen too small of manifold on a 1.800 port  nothing there either.. So the point is I would never blow our opening out to match up the manifold its not as crucial as its made out to be .. 

A slight mis match in alignment is not un common and its not just in the HD world autos are the same.. Sure guys spend big money inthe auto side to match it I did.. We re tested my engine on the engine dyno , I had 5 hours in doing the work myself and it did not make and change at all .. But I am only a 406 11.1 pump gas , maybe on a true race engine there would be a gain,  :nixweiss:  Back to spend money and re test..   








here is an odd ball I have tried to do this build again and could not, no idea why it made the crazy show box tq curve as stock heads 113 kit and re used the owners 259 cam with a dd pipe .. ( i have tried twice and could not re produce the tq curve )  HP gets there but this is the highest I have seen.

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fastfreddy

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Re: Question about SE 58mm throttle body
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2016, 03:45:56 PM »

so your saying i may be leaving some thing on the table by not running a 58mm? its not a big ticket item maybe ill give one a try. and would the SE piece be the one to go with. Thnx FF
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Re: Question about SE 58mm throttle body
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2016, 04:48:23 PM »

I see no reason not to.. It will expand the tq curve up and will offer what ever HP was left on the table
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