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[SDCVO]

Thought I would post the dyno run Bob did on my bone stock S&S 124. My buddies down here thought I was nuts getting my bike all the way to Hayward (twice with 2 different motors) driving through not only San Diego but Los Angeles where God only knows how many "tuners" there are there but not only have I never seen any sheet close to this, bike runs insanely smooth whether I am "ripping its face off" or just cruising with a group of my friends here from this forum that JC has organized. Currently have 15000 miles on this motor and it runs as good today on my 250 mile jaunt in 90+degree weather as the day after he tuned it.
Im sure I will be seeing him again whenever I need another tune. One thing for me is certain, I would never have anyone else tune my bikes.

[JCZ]

And a few of us have got to see your bike run......run away from ours as we have the wick twisted WOT.  Probably a good thing I don't have the same motor....we'd sure be in trouble Alan.

Yes, Bob has tuned several of my bikes and many others here on this forum from Nor Cal.  He certainly has a reputation for being the best on the west coast.

Interesting Kingspoke.  The tire is out of round or is it not balanced correctly?  I had a problem with tires cupping pre-maturely, years ago.  I quite getting tires mounted at that dealership and the cupping problem went away.  I think it's do to balancers that are not calabrated (balanced) correctly and they just don't know it.  They balance a tire to what they think is within specs but it's not.  Just my humble opinion. 

[Kingspoke]

Thought I would post the dyno run Bob did on my bone stock S&S 124.  Currently have 15000 miles on this motor and it runs as good today on my 250 mile jaunt in 90+degree weather as the day after he tuned it.
Im sure I will be seeing him again whenever I need another tune. One thing for me is certain, I would never have anyone else tune my bikes.

I would say I love your torque curve, only it's not a curve!   Looks like you can wind that puppy all the way out!

[Kingspoke]

And a few of us have got to see your bike run......run away from ours as we have the wick twisted WOT.  Probably a good thing I don't have the same motor....we'd sure be in trouble Alan.

Yes, Bob has tuned several of my bikes and many others here on this forum from Nor Cal.  He certainly has a reputation for being the best on the west coast.

Interesting Kingspoke.  The tire is out of round or is it not balanced correctly?  I had a problem with tires cupping pre-maturely, years ago.  I quite getting tires mounted at that dealership and the cupping problem went away.  I think it's do to balancers that are not calabrated (balanced) correctly and they just don't know it.  They balance a tire to what they think is within specs but it's not.  Just my humble opinion. 

Bob said the tire is defective.  When he was doing some pulls and then letting off he kept looking at the left rear of the bike.  Another guy and I could not really see anything (or didn't notice) on the right side.  When Bob called me over to look closely at the drum and the tire contact, on the left side, it was clear the tire was out of round.  At first I thought my rim may have been bent, but it was clear at slow speed with Bob sitting on the bike the tire was out of round.

I took the bike up to 110 after the first dyno and no problem that this fool noticed!  It is probably skipping on the dyno at acceleration.  I have Ohlins front and back, and it probably didn't reveal itself as much as with the stock suspension. 

I have 11K on the 407 and will just replace it with the AE's.  Bob was pretty adamant that my rear tire is defective.  I always look over my tires on the stand (J&S) and I did not see any cupping.  I guess I should play the lottery!

[grc]

Even if a tire shows no sign of radial or lateral out-of-round conditions and the balance also checks ok, you can still have problems once the tire is under load and rotating on a solid surface.  I used to deal with this in the auto industry, where it's called force variation and our tire suppliers were required to measure and control it.  Think of it as thin or soft spots at various locations around the circumference of the tire, although it is usually more complex than that.

Jerry

[Unbalanced]

Glad u have a starting place.  The proof will be change tire put bike on dyno for a pull it should then yield a flat smooth line.   If not go from there.

Hopefully you have it worked out.    Still a little confused why it wasn't brought to your attention in the first place though or was it?

[Kingspoke]

Glad u have a starting place.  The proof will be change tire put bike on dyno for a pull it should then yield a flat smooth line.   If not go from there.

Hopefully you have it worked out.    Still a little confused why it wasn't brought to your attention in the first place though or was it?

Thanks! 

The forum provided a reason for closer examination, but it was not something clearly apparent. 

It wasn't that apparent in terms of performance.  Bob, the wrench, and I all rode the bike, following the dyno tune, and not one of us detected any clutch problem.  Ron (the owner of RC Cycles) said, the graph does not reflect clutch slippage.

In terms of "out of round" being detected initially, I had no idea.  I should have paid more attention.  The good news is, I'll replace this tire, re-balance, and go from there.

[Unbalanced]

King,

If it were mine on the next pull after the tire is replaced I'd be sure to get a gear pull sheet as well as the WOT.   

This won't earn me any popularity, but I'll politely disagree that it wasn't apparent that there was a concern.   The choppiness  of the dyno sheet should of been apparent to a dyno operator vs posting here and finding there is a possible issue then to have it pointed out out that it is probably wheel hop only after questioning it.  My point is if it's not a smooth line the graph deserves further questing.   The WOT pull is one of the easiest things to tune.   

That is provided the tuner hasn't identified that there is an issue.

Flip side: 
Everyone has the chance to miss something have a bad day, be overly busy or distracted, etc, but it is how they deal with it after the fact that matters and Bob making sure it's figured out which speaks to his character.

Look forward to seeing your updated sheet.

[Kingspoke]

King,

If it were mine on the next pull after the tire is replaced I'd be sure to get a gear pull sheet as well as the WOT.   

This won't earn me any popularity, but I'll politely disagree that it wasn't apparent that there was a concern.   The choppiness  of the dyno sheet should of been apparent to a dyno operator vs posting here and finding there is a possible issue then to have it pointed out out that it is probably wheel hop only after questioning it.  My point is if it's not a smooth line the graph deserves further questing.   The WOT pull is one of the easiest things to tune.   

That is provided the tuner hasn't identified that there is an issue.

Flip side: 
Everyone has the chance to miss something have a bad day, be overly busy or distracted, etc, but it is how they deal with it after the fact that matters and Bob making sure it's figured out which speaks to his character.

Look forward to seeing your updated sheet.

I know that Bob tuned my bike to perfection, based on how it feels and performs.  I have complete confidence in his abilities as does hundreds of others.  The issue with the defective tire was not apparent to me, nor the wrench, or Bob, or I'm certain they would have mentioned it.

With respect to the squiggly lines It was also not apparent to me, and lacking expertise in that, I'll leave it to the experts to interpret.  When you post on a forum you can expect to various opinions, whether popular or not, so I'm  very understanding of that.

Through this discussion and followup, it has been determined that there isn't a clutch slippage issue, so that is a good thing.  The defective tire being revealed through this process is also a good thing.  As to what is apparent to others is speculative at best, so I'll leave that part alone.

My next Dyno tune will be with "Dyno Bob"!

[Kingspoke]

Even if a tire shows no sign of radial or lateral out-of-round conditions and the balance also checks ok, you can still have problems once the tire is under load and rotating on a solid surface.  I used to deal with this in the auto industry, where it's called force variation and our tire suppliers were required to measure and control it.  Think of it as thin or soft spots at various locations around the circumference of the tire, although it is usually more complex than that.

Jerry

Thanks for that input and a reference to your knowledge in this area.  You always have some interesting and informative comments.  This is something new to me.  As they say you learn something new each day. 

I have been so fortunate with very few problems with all my Harley's over 40 years.  I know the forum somewhat amplifies the issues with Harley's but there are also some patterns with HD components, and sub contracted components.  I've recently did a search, as a result and found that there were several reports of defective Dunlop 407's.

[Ridgerunr]

Will a "cupped" rear tire show the choppy lines?

[Eddie Haskell]

So, our engines blow up and our tires are square, gotta love it!
 Since the bearings are garbage and the lifters are junk, if a guy was to go out and replace these parts with quality parts and later in life the oil pump fails, isn't HD going to say it was my fault even if it wasn't?
 I know they have to prove that what I did caused the failure, but I don't need that headache.
 These bikes sure are pretty though! 

[Kingspoke]

Will a "cupped" rear tire show the choppy lines?

Yes, and my rear tire is in fact, cupped! I thought it wasn't looking straight at it, but getting down under the bike looking at an angle, it was clear it is very much cupped!  

[Kingspoke]

So, our engines blow up and our tires are square, gotta love it!
 Since the bearings are garbage and the lifters are junk, if a guy was to go out and replace these parts with quality parts and later in life the oil pump fails, isn't HD going to say it was my fault even if it wasn't?
 I know they have to prove that what I did caused the failure, but I don't need that headache.
 These bikes sure are pretty though! 

I love Harley's and it's all I've ever wanted to own for 40 years, but in the future I'm gonna try and give Moco as little money as possible, if I can.  If my bike takes a dump I'll either replace with S&S flywheel on up, or just put in an S&S 124.  I have to tell you though, my bike is running so good, shifts so smooth, and sounds so good, I'm in hog heaven.  I can't run with the 117's or 124's but man this thing (all 900lbs) is fast off the line! 

Let's see what this new Milwaukee 8 is going to do!  I'll be watching from the sidelines!

[Unbalanced]

Yes, and my rear tire is in fact, cupped! I thought it wasn't looking straight at it, but getting down under the bike looking at an angle, it was clear it is very much cupped!

KingSpoke,

Did you get a chance to change the tire and re run it on the dyno yet?