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[Striker]

When I ordered my bike in 2005, I had a '95 FLHTC. Nice bike, beautiful paint, lots of performance, and chrome. It did however have pretty high mileage for a 10 year old bike, (98,000). I put it on the market for $14,000 just to see the response versus trading it. I got tons of calls, and after the 3rd guy tried it out, settled on a price of $11,800 cash. 
I am now trying to sell my 2005, CVO and it is a dog fight to get any offers. 
I am down to $14,500, and am including another $3000 worth of extra gear, seats, windshields, lift, dolly, bags, etc., etc.
It is a much lower mileage bike, (27,000), same age, (10 years old), I am the original owner, (the 3rd owner on '95), a much better bike, and a much more expensive bike when new, (by about 3 times), and I can't even get tire kickers.
In my opinion, Harley is glutting the market, and has been for years. I remember about 20 years ago, going into the dealership to see the new Springer Soft tail that had come out. The response was that the best they could do was put my name on a waiting list to see if I can get one. When I wanted to get the CVO, the dealership had to get back with me to see if they would be allocated one, or can get one from another dealer in the state. No dealer wanted to give up a bike like this, but I was able to get the single one allocated to two dealers in my area if I waited 6 weeks, and gave them a non-refundable deposit of $5000, which I did.
My point is, today most all Harleys are as common as belly buttons, and it seems that an older CVO drops in price at such a rapid rate that it eventually is in the same ball park as a comparable non-cvo version. I don't believe I am the only one with this problem, based on the prices I am seeing around the country on CVO's.
Did we all buy into our own hype and let our ego get the best of us?  I have done the math, and the old story about "it would cost you more to build a stock bike up to a CVO level" is not true. Other than the badging you can build it up and save as much as $6-8,000.
Perhaps it is time we get smart and stop getting "hosed" by a "marketing campaign" that only is serving the dealers.
I love this bike, hate to have to sell it, but things could be worse, I could be trying to sell a CVO V-Rod!!! Not that they aren't great bikes for a sport bike, but they have taken bigger hits that our baggers.

[Sierramadre]

I think people want the Rushmore bikes with the new touring frame and latest technology-especially those who are considering a CVO. 

[Twolanerider]

There are too many out there, too much newer, too much that has changed.  While Harley may not have gotten significantly "better" over the intervening years they definitely have done things to leave a perception of being at least newer and somewhat closer to modern.  That's not Harley's fault.  Getting more modern and (hopefully, someday) better is what they're supposed to do.  And that will knock the values of older used bikes. 

If we hang on to them that long we do so knowingly.  Can't knock anyone nor anything else for our choice there.  Used cars were never supposed to be an investment or even a cash-paid-recovery device.  That used Harleys used to manage something close to that was an aberration we should have known better than to count on continuing. 

[Striker]

There is always something new, that is the evolution of everything. The new technology gave the older bikes greater value because of the new technology price and inflation. Today that no longer holds true because of the number of bikes out there. You can lose $10,000 in a year to 18 months on a CVO, you never had that kind of depreciation years past. The mystique of the Harley brand was what kept the values of the bike, now the resale value percentage wise is no better, and on some models of Harley worse than other brands.
This is not by accident, Harley has made moves for the immediate consumer dollar, and in the long run it may create a financial crisis in the company as a whole.
It is not only the private sale value that has dropped, it is the trade value as well. And by Harley using the adage, "there are a lot of bikes like that out there" or "I can only tell you what we are getting on used bikes, regardless of book value" they have created a "self filling prophecy" that we all have to deal with.
Your first statement about the new models is exactly what I am talking about when I mention "marketing hype". The CVO was initially promoted as a performance bike, yet the current CVO's, as they come from the factory, can't get out of their own way. As long as people that have disposable income, buy into the marketing this company is throwing out to the public, they will put more and more inventory on the street, and continue to weaken the brand.
That is why their stock has dropped from a high of $72 to current market price of $42 in just 2 years. They are starting to lose the uniqueness of the brand IMO.

[Twolanerider]

 They are starting to lose the uniqueness of the brand IMO.

There is not "starting" about it.  Nor has there been for a long time.  Harley used to build a very few CVO bikes.  Now the dealerships are littered with them.  Again, not Harley's fault.  If they can sell the bikes and get the price for them that is what the company should do.  It's not the company's responsibility to support prices on used bikes.  Especially 10 year old bikes that are a couple of generations behind the current curve.

None of this is said to belittle your position.  I'm in the same boat after all.  My bikes are both old too.

[Striker]

I think the point that is being missed, is that Harley is not supporting their own brand. They have built the used CVO price by knocking the older bikes. The baby boomer that has money to blow, buys into the "newer is better" idea, and just like the 100th anniversary bike that took a "nose dive" because they put so many out on the street by telling everyone that bought one about how the bike will become a "collector" piece. If all these tactics made the company more successful their stock would reflect it, however it has done just the opposite, resulting in a 40% dump in stock value.
As far as the dealer holding market value for used bikes. The companies that have maintained their integrity do just that. I have a Mercedes that is going on 15 years old, and it commonly is selling for about 20% over NADA. Why?, when Mercedes offered this car to the U.S. market they told everyone how rare it was, and how they would always take a clean one on trade. Guess what? They have kept that attitude, the car brings high book when taken care of, and yes the dealerships offer top dollar on trades. That is why Mercedes stock, in a weaker market has dropped 7% during the same period that Harley dropped 40%.
Everything in a companies portfolio can be traced back to consumer confidence in the product and integrity of the company.

[Twolanerider]

I think the point that is being missed,

Point isn't being missed.  I just think it's wrong.  The used bike market is not Harley's responsibility nor its concern.  If MoCo puts out a product line that in some way makes our 10 year (or in my case now 16 year old) bikes hold a stronger value that's great; for us.  But the MoCo could care less.  Their job is to sell the most new bikes they can for as much as they can and used bike prices; especially older used bike prices be damned.  What goes in your and my wallet later they could care less about; nor should they be asked to. 

I'm not a MoCo groupie.  A lot about the company and its operations I've come to dislike anymore.  But we don't get to blame them because they build and sell more new bikes.  That's what they're supposed to do.  If that kills used prices.... well.... 

Anyone who buys a new car/bike/whatever thinking it's some kind of an investment, or even cost recovery vehicle, for later should see the brochure I've got for some beach front land just west of Denver. 

[VaEagle]

I think we also have to consider things like the overall economy over the past few years and that many people don't have the disposable income for such a large purchase that to most is just a hobby and to some a "fashion statement".
I was talking to my local H-D dealer and he said used CVOs are very hard to sell since those in the market for a CVO can generally afford a new one so they buy new with all the bells and whistles and a warranty.
Just my .02 but I would love to see money spent on improving performance in the drive-train and suspension not just power but dependability more than on cosmetics and electronic bells and whistles. I think keeping the long term H-D fans happy with the basic 1936 design is reaching it's design limits considering it also has to conform to modern EPA government regulations.

[jonny cash]

I have 2 CVO's, bought them both used.  My '04 I bought 3 years ago for $11,500 with only 22k miles, lots of extras.  Bought my '09 last year with only 5k miles for 7k under NADA.  I think there are some really unrealistic expectations of what used bikes are worth.  That being said, Ive never bought anything, especially a bike, and worried what I was gonna get out of it. I have bikes to enjoy and have fun, taken trips with memories that will last a lifetime, the cost of buying in was CHEAP!
With a new engine this year and new touring chassis next year, if I was worried about value I would dump the Twin Cam bikes now, cause they are gonna be really cheap next year.  To the OP, that '05 you have is the pinnacle of Twin cam bikes to me.  My '09, while being a very nice bike, does not compare to my '04, as far as build quality, fit and finish and materials.   The latest models seem to have really suffered in this regard. 

[JCZ]

Striker.....it's been awhile since we've heard from you.   For the newer members on this forum, Striker is the gentleman that came up with the business card that we use on this forum.

Talking about Harley's loosing their valve quickly....two months ago I negotiated a deal for my painter, a 2013 Street Glide (not a CVO) with 13k miles on the clock for $10k.  This is the bike....the same way it was the day he bought it.

[HUBBARD]

Point isn't being missed.  I just think it's wrong.  The used bike market is not Harley's responsibility nor its concern.  If MoCo puts out a product line that in some way makes our 10 year (or in my case now 16 year old) bikes hold a stronger value that's great; for us.  But the MoCo could care less.  Their job is to sell the most new bikes they can for as much as they can and used bike prices; especially older used bike prices be damned.  What goes in your and my wallet later they could care less about; nor should they be asked to. 

I'm not a MoCo groupie.  A lot about the company and its operations I've come to dislike anymore.  But we don't get to blame them because they build and sell more new bikes.  That's what they're supposed to do.  If that kills used prices.... well.... 

Anyone who buys a new car/bike/whatever thinking it's some kind of an investment, or even cost recovery vehicle, for later should see the brochure I've got for some beach front land just west of Denver.

There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD

[jaysails]

Sorry, but have to go with Striker on this one.  It's not Harley's responsibility to keep used value up, but it certainly is in their best interest.  All you have to do, is look at the 90's when one had to order and be put on a wait list for a new bike.  Dealerships had very few if any bikes, used prices were way up, and people would trade up whenever they could.  I used to put an order in not long after I would get a new one. Then that started going away.  Then I started doing CVO's as they tended to hold their value. Now that has gone away. Harley is simply pumping out too many bikes.  the dealerships are flush with them, and having a hard time making money as they have very little inventory turn, and at the end of the season have to discount them, or send to an auction house.   Dealerships are changing hands quit often as they struggle to make it work. The 10,000 depreciation in one year is true, and it's helping to kill the CVO market. My dealership has 4 Limited's on the floor, and have been there for a while.  I think the only answer is for Harley to cut production, not only of CVO's, but all their bikes.
I realize this is a source of debate, but I would not want to own a dealership right now.  I don't think they would want the shortage that the mid 90's had, but somewhere in between .  Here's and interesting piece from "94" that you can google.
"

Scarcity Revs Up Harley Bike Sales
May 21, 1994|By Gregory Seay; Courant Staff Writer

[DCFIREMANN]

Striker back in the day when we bought our FLHTCUSE Bikes there were the chit. In 2004 it was almost impossible to get one. I was extremely lucky to have gotten one. They sold all the units out in less then a week. Some dealers marked them way up, I got lucky again and only paid MSRP. The 04's sold so fast they decided to do another run in 05 in 3 colors. They we easier to come by but still the hot ticket. The market is now flooded with used bikes. Used bike values have fallen through the floor and are still dropping. Most dealers have more then 1 used CVO on the floor and the economic times aren't making things any better. The new technology on the new bikes is a very good selling point. I know I bought one. The dealer offered me what I thought was a low number on my 2012 SE Ultra on a trade in. I decided to keep it and sell it myself. Last year the MSRP when I was trying to sell it was 31K. I did finally get rid of the low mileage super clean with a lot of extras CVO Ultra for a whopping 23K. I took a bath but at least it is gone and the new owner is very happy. I still own my 2004 SE Electra Glide and still love the bike BUT after riding a new CVO Limited for a while then climbing on the 04, it's like getting on an ole Pan Head. You almost need to regroup and learn how the ride the older bike. Soooooooo after this long post I don't know who you would blame for the decrease in value of out older bikes because there are many factors. All I can say is TIMES SURE HAVE CHANGED!!!!!! Good luck with your sale.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[grc]

Book trade-in value for a 2005 FLHTCSE2 is slightly under $10k, and retail slightly under $15k.  A private owner shouldn't believe he can sell his bike for the same amount a dealer gets.  Dealerships offer services a private seller doesn't, and often a dealership will also offer a short warrantee just in case something bad happens right away.

I've always been of the opinion that a fair price, for both the private seller and the person buying it, is about halfway between trade value and retail value.  In this case that would be a bit over $12k.  If a fair value is $12k, and you're asking $14.5k, that will limit responses.  Most people aren't big on negotiating so they don't assume they can talk you down to what they consider to be a fair price.  They just look at the asking price and tell themselves it's not worth that and never call.

I have the same bike btw, but it's the faster and more popular cherry version (known fact that we all agreed on back in 2005-2006 on this very forum  ).  I wouldn't expect to get much more than $10-11k in my neck of the woods, even though it's low mileage and excellent condition.  It's just the reality of the recent Harley market.  Five years ago the book value was still over $20k on a bike that cost $30k new.  Lots of things have changed in those five years.  Fewer people are out there buying bikes thanks to the Great Recession and not so great recovery.  Harley has added a lot of bells and whistles many people seem to want over the past six years.  Harley has flooded the CVO market during that same time, which has also killed the values of models much newer than ours.  It's a vastly different market from what we all experienced in the 90's and early 00's, and people no longer have to wait in line and kiss a dealers posterior to get a new Harley.  Do I wish my bike was still worth $20k?  Sure I do.  Does wishing always make something happen?  Not so much.

My advice, if you really want to unload the bike cut the asking price to $12,500.  As we've discussed around here for many years, add-ons don't really add much if any value when it comes time to sell, and the older the bike the more true that becomes.  I had serious thoughts over the past three years about selling mine, but after looking at how the resale had dropped I decided it made more sense to keep it for the limited amount of riding I do these days versus selling it and then missing having a bike and having to go out and pay too much for another one I would still only use on a limited basis.

JMHO - Jerry

[Striker]

OK, let me point out this is only my opinion, but also let me tell where I come from. I have ridden Harley's for longer than most people have been alive. I started 55 years ago. I also have spent 27 years as business owner and a business consultant.
The two combined put in a position that makes me cringe when I see great opportunity squandered.
The real point is this: Successful marketing is achieved by any one or more of the following:

1) selling a product that is of better quality than the competition, (state of the art)
2) Selling a product that has controlled supply
3) Selling a product at a lower price, if the end result is you generate significantly more "dead net" dollars than at the higher price.
4) Having impeccable customer service
5) Making your product so unique, that you have a very niche market.

For anyone that says I am "missing the point" please tell me how many of the the 5 points I list are currently the business model of Harley Davidson? Keep in mind, any company that pursues the majority of these points is easily identified by its stock performance.

As far as buy any vehicle as an investment, I am not that naïve. I have bought and sold over 50 HD's, and did better on some than the others. I bought them because they were my bike of choice, and when I started riding they were the bike with attitude.
While I don't think it is the responsibility of the manufacture to make the resale of their product reasonable, I do believe that irresponsible marketing become evident when the resale market of their product is weak. That is what happened with Pontiac, Indian, Evinrude, Jeep, etc.

 This is the first new Harley I have ever bought, I am very happy with the bike, and as a final ride on my bucket list, my wife and I took route 66 all the way to Chicago and north. 4600 miles in the wind, and then made the decision to "hang up our spurs".

I am frustrated because I have to now deal with the poor market concepts Harley has moved to. All Harley owners are being impacted, and just seem to accept it as the norm. It isn't normal for a company to exercise poor business practices, but it has been normal, in our latest business economy to "milk" the market, and when the dept load becomes to much bail out by selling out. In many cases this is an actual business plan. Many of Harley's moves in the past several years point toward another AMF catastrophe for those of you old enough to remember.