Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[barrhill]

got few miles on my 113 ready to move on

thinking of going 117 with a S&S crank and oil pump plus everything else it needs
already have a Barnett scorpion and some transmission upgrades plus supertrapp mega shots complete header system plus 577 gmr cams going to his 600

is this the best way to go since case is open and buying a crank anyways ?

[mike jesse]

Slip the S&S LC 124 in it and be done.

[HUBBARD]

Yep, I'd move on up to a 124, and maybe bigger.  Later--HUBBARD

[Twolanerider]

Yep, I'd move on up to a 124, and maybe bigger.  Later--HUBBARD

Oh bull, if you could make it fit you'd do two 124s; maybe bigger!   

[Kingspoke]

Yep, I'd move on up to a 124, and maybe bigger.  Later--HUBBARD

I see a S&S 143 in your future!

OP, sure seems like a great start!  So many options for these Harley's you'll keep all your original matching numbers (if that's a consideration), and you won't have to worry about putting in all those dollars, and having to worrying about the Harley crank.

[prodrag1320]

go 124",no brainer

[Unbalanced]

+1 +1 +1  on the 124 

124 LC - 10.25 to 1 or HC at 10.8 to 1

585 cam or 640 cams.   Run great and better crank to start with than the 117 drop in over a 110.

[Para Bellum]

got few miles on my 113 ready to move on

thinking of going 117 with a S&S crank and oil pump plus everything else it needs
already have a Barnett scorpion and some transmission upgrades plus supertrapp mega shots complete header system plus 577 gmr cams going to his 600

is this the best was to go since case is open and buying a crank anyways ?

Although the 117 looks to be a great combo, it's only a 3.5% increase in displacement over your 113. The 124 is 9.7% larger than the 113.  So, do you want to move up to something that's only a little better than your 113, or do you want to spend slightly more to get something that tells you right away you've got a handful there?   

[FlaHeatWave]

No, it's not the only way to go, however the 117 is a great combo, mine is at 10.4-1, and it's giving the 120R and 124 Crates nightmares 

Though I'd be curious if the 117 drop in kit would work with the S&S 4-5/8 Crank =124?

[barrhill]

 

Though I'd be curious if the 117 drop in kit would work with the S&S 4-5/8 Crank =124?
[/quote

well this sounds like an idea need some builders to chime in

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Being that you put a ton of miles on it I think the 124 is an option but the 117 has a better bore to stroke ratio, less piston angle. Better piston in my opinion.. I have my own 124 tore back down for engine noise. Wiseco pistons that come in the kit do not have a great shape, but I am coating my with the line2line coating . I had no scoring but the ring pack is very very small in the new piston design. So when the piston rocks it will loose ring seal I have 14 thousand miles on this second kit S&S warrantied the first kit.  I had 14-15% leak down. I am not re boring just hone and coat pistons with new ring pack.  Crate 124 LC would not make much more than what you have now they make 125/135 on avg   the 640 engine will make more HP but the bottom end power is not what you have now either ,


So now you are modding the new crate engine . if you want more power , head work is a must ..  As well I feel that for the LONG haul mileage that you guys both run,  the longer piston skirt is a better option.  piston is a 2618 Wiseco  for S&S and 4340 Mahle for the 117 kit  the 4340 tends to be less noisy and is able to run slightly less clearance. 

Power wise the 117 make better than a LC engine and close to the HC crate engine .   As well base gasket  124 vs 0 Ring for cylinder  117

Cams are what they are in the S&S engine as its their own custom pump plate cam cover set up they still have not gone to the new billet plate and 3 rotor pump. So changes later are if you want a cam swap is not cheap by any means. Cam cover on the S&S can be an issue on a few pipes not as bad it it used to be but still a factor for some CVO bikes due to the billet brake lever are more prone to this than the std bikes.

Oil lines can be worked around but more add time or build it on the SE case but that not offered in granite only the S&S so we are back to adding more time. for the black engines it is not an issue.. 

I do not feel that it is as cut and dried as some make it seem..  but that is just my opinion .

Its a toss up for sure but in the end even owing a S&S 124 in my own bike I feel that the scales tip slightly for the 117 kit .

either way it will be one heck of a fun bike ..

[FlaHeatWave]

Being that you put a ton of miles on it I think the 124 is an option but the 117 has a better bore to stroke ratio, less piston angle. Better piston in my opinion.. I have my own 124 tore back down for engine noise. Wiseco pistons that come in the kit do not have a great shape, but I am coating my with the line2line coating . I had no scoring but the ring pack is very very small in the new piston design. So when the piston rocks it will loose ring seal I have 14 thousand miles on this second kit S&S warrantied the first kit.  I had 14-15% leak down. I am not re boring just hone and coat pistons with new ring pack.  Crate 124 LC would not make much more than what you have now they make 125/135 on avg   the 640 engine will make more HP but the bottom end power is not what you have now either ,


So now you are modding the new crate engine . if you want more power , head work is a must ..  As well I feel that for the LONG haul mileage that you guys both run,  the longer piston skirt is a better option.  piston is a 2618 Wiseco  for S&S and 4340 Mahle for the 117 kit  the 4340 tends to be less noisy and is able to run slightly less clearance. 

Power wise the 117 make better than a LC engine and close to the HC crate engine .   As well base gasket  124 vs 0 Ring for cylinder  117

Cams are what they are in the S&S engine as its their own custom pump plate cam cover set up they still have not gone to the new billet plate and 3 rotor pump. So changes later are if you want a cam swap is not cheap by any means. Cam cover on the S&S can be an issue on a few pipes not as bad it it used to be but still a factor for some CVO bikes due to the billet brake lever are more prone to this than the std bikes.

Oil lines can be worked around but more add time or build it on the SE case but that not offered in granite only the S&S so we are back to adding more time. for the black engines it is not an issue.. 

I do not feel that it is as cut and dried as some make it seem..  but that is just my opinion .

Its a toss up for sure but in the end even owing a S&S 124 in my own bike I feel that the scales tip slightly for the 117 kit .

either way it will be one heck of a fun bike ..

Steve,
Very interesting, thank you for posting the details

With what is available now, what Cylinders (not drop-in) / Pistons / Rings would you recommend for big miles at 117" 10.5+- to 1???

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Well as we know that if you REALLY TOUR that fuel is the ultimate equalizer.. Many builds would never make it one day in this heat and at time's 89 or worse 87 octane fuel.. I was in Ok and all we could get was 87 ... stock bikes in the group where pinging.. 

 So for the best touring engine I feel that you need to be able to run 87 fuel ( which by the way I know tune just about everything on now. Its not about peak numbers but thats another topic.

keep a long skirt and short rod , better ring pack than maybe a few others  , its going to be about riding it anywhere if you really tour.. And by that I mean tour not running the super slab.. sure fuel can be better there but get off the main hwy and get on some of the old two lanes and enjoy the trip means that fuel is going to be hit or miss..   

So if what ever you build can be de tuned to run on crap fuel then your fine in that area and that is going to based on the comp ratio..

I am going to re tune my 124 on 87 as well and then compare the numbers to 89 and then 93.. In the past it's not much of a gain maybe 2-3 on avg . but it will have a much less aggressive timing table . But what ever works for that combo is all that matters

 

[FlaHeatWave]

Well as we know that if you REALLY TOUR that fuel is the ultimate equalizer.. Many builds would never make it one day in this heat and at time's 89 or worse 87 octane fuel.. I was in Ok and all we could get was 87 ... stock bikes in the group where pinging.. 

 So for the best touring engine I feel that you need to be able to run 87 fuel ( which by the way I know tune just about everything on now. Its not about peak numbers but thats another topic.

keep a long skirt and short rod , better ring pack than maybe a few others  , its going to be about riding it anywhere if you really tour.. And by that I mean tour not running the super slab.. sure fuel can be better there but get off the main hwy and get on some of the old two lanes and enjoy the trip means that fuel is going to be hit or miss..   

So if what ever you build can be de tuned to run on crap fuel then your fine in that area and that is going to based on the comp ratio..

I am going to re tune my 124 on 87 as well and then compare the numbers to 89 and then 93.. In the past it's not much of a gain maybe 2-3 on avg . but it will have a much less aggressive timing table . But what ever works for that combo is all that matters

I agree fuel is the bogie... 'Yep, 'been on them lonesome Western highways this time of year... Over the years, I've only had 2 maybe 3 instances where (at least) 91 was not available... I just ask the locals where the "Ethel" is, put a gallon or 2 of garbage in... go to the Hi-Test... The way I Tour, <10% slab, it hasn't really been that much of an issue finding 91...

Steve,
I was asking for a recommendation on specific Cylinder / Piston / Ring Packages that you have found to be durable over many miles, not so much to performance or Tuning... Have you tried any 3mm Oil Rings???

Ed 

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

 CP  and others will make a custom but the 3 mm is not common . Look at the 124 wiseco oil ring  HA HA


but tune will always play a role and to me its not one item ... out here in the back roads 91 is hard to find many times being that 91 in OK is the best you can get many times they are out of that and we have to use whatever until we can get further on down the road