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[guppytrash]

Harley made big changes for 14 with project Rushmore (JMO but "not really" big changes as much as good marketing) and now they really have made a big change with the
new M-8's.

We all know that MY 14 hurt resale on all older models and Ray Charles can see whats happening with everything pre MY17.

Is HD riding the double edge sword? 
People like me won't buy the same old twin cam regardless of how much they improve the bag latches or radio.
But if they make real improvements.  Like I believe they have done this year they kill the resale of the previous models.
So they are damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

I wonder if there will be a time when HD's hold resale value again?

Supply and demand is not as easy to control with other real players in the game.

Just curious to get some opinions. 
 
Mostly glad to see HD is building something that I am interested in buying again.

[SneakyPete]

I think the jury is out if the MY17 bikes are really better than previous years.  Let the problems begin!  Already heard there is a rev. B engine post introduction.  Hold onto your bike, may go up in value.

[OBB]

With the whole EPA thing going on, it may help on the older bikes as far as building and tuning values.

[MadCVORG]

The MoCo needs to keep their manufacturing sales going, in the face of competition from Polaris, so the continuous upgrades--innovations--should continue. H-D needs to get new product out to customers, so from a sales perspective, it helps them to have some 'product obsolescence'; reasons to compel customers to buy the new products. To them, resale value on older bikes would actually hurt their prospects for continued growth and market share.

[grc]

Resale values were high in the 90's because it was very hard to buy a new one and the only competition was from the Japanese, which was a no go for hardcore Harley fans.  Now there is viable competition in the V-Twin market, and Harley itself has been cranking out new bikes faster than people are buying them, so resale values cannot remain high.  It's basic economics.

Harley's have been overpriced for a long time, and the high resale value was one of the arguments that allowed Harley to continue to overprice their product as well as one of the ways customers justified their overpriced purchase to friends and the better half.  Now they are just overpriced and you can't count on being able to trade every year or two without losing some money.  I've got a feeling hardcore Harley folks won't let that stop them.

I certainly hope the changes made so far for 2017 will turn out to be the beginning of a new era for H-D, an era where the customer finally becomes the focus instead of the executives and stock holders.  Too many iconic American companies have faded away to nothing over the past fifty years, and it would be a real shame if Harley joined them.

Jerry

[guppytrash]

The MoCo needs to keep their manufacturing sales going, in the face of competition from Polaris, so the continuous upgrades--innovations--should continue. H-D needs to get new product out to customers, so from a sales perspective, it helps them to have some 'product obsolescence'; reasons to compel customers to buy the new products. To them, resale value on older bikes would actually hurt their prospects for continued growth and market share.

I agree
Except to the last line.
 I think since this is a toy or luxury to most and that the low resale offer on a MY16 or older is going to stop a trade in for an upgrade.  If showroom new 2016 CVO limiteds were 40-42k and now are being marked at 30-31k, used bikes are going to see some real low-ball trade in values.   

[guppytrash]

Resale values were high in the 90's because it was very hard to buy a new one and the only competition was from the Japanese, which was a no go for hardcore Harley fans.  Now there is viable competition in the V-Twin market, and Harley itself has been cranking out new bikes faster than people are buying them, so resale values cannot remain high.  It's basic economics.

Harley's have been overpriced for a long time, and the high resale value was one of the arguments that allowed Harley to continue to overprice their product as well as one of the ways customers justified their overpriced purchase to friends and the better half.  Now they are just overpriced and you can't count on being able to trade every year or two without losing some money.  I've got a feeling hardcore Harley folks won't let that stop them.

I certainly hope the changes made so far for 2017 will turn out to be the beginning of a new era for H-D, an era where the customer finally becomes the focus instead of the executives and stock holders.  Too many iconic American companies have faded away to nothing over the past fifty years, and it would be a real shame if Harley joined them.

Jerry

Well said Jerry
Overpriced is definitely one of the contributing factors.  And I was one who thought I would suck up the high front end price of a CVO because it would pay off when I was ready to sell.  At the time it was probably true.  Not anymore.

I do hope the new HD's are good reliable machines. 

[JCZ]

Well said Jerry
Overpriced is definitely one of the contributing factors.  And I was one who thought I would suck up the high front end price of a CVO because it would pay off when I was ready to sell.  At the time it was probably true.  Not anymore.

I do hope the new HD's are good reliable machines.

When was that?

For a lot of years I was able to say that I never sold a Harley for less than I paid for it.  However, back then you always had to plunk down a nice size deposit and then wait your turn in line for months for a new Harley.  It hasn't been that way for a couple of decades, since at least the mid 80s.  Resale has gradually lost it's value every since then.

San Diego Harley Davidson sent an email out last week saying "$5,000 of all new 2015 motorcycles".  This is only one dealership but if we can assume this is generally happening in the market then that fact alone makes a resale worth much less than it would have otherwise been.  It's the nature of supply and demand and the  market is flooded with "new" motorcycles that are a couple of year old that nobody wants.

Couple that with Harley's target market/buyers getting older and older each year, tired of paying high prices for motorcycles that just aren't worth what we've been paying and the market for the MoCo gets smaller and smaller.  They've tried shifting to a younger market via Buell and V-rod but it just hasn't worked.

They need to be the first to market with some technology or feature....before all the competitors.....to recapture the old Harley customers that they've lost to Indian and  Polaris.

[guppytrash]

JCZ

I should have been more clear. 
I have never sold a Harley for more than I paid for it.
My first 3 HD's I added chrome and performance parts to the dollar amounts that probably put each near or above the cost of a CVO by the time I sold them.  On trade in I would hear that the add-ons don't really add $$ to trade in value.
When I bought the 09 CVO I never anticipated it would hold its value or be worth more than I paid for it.
Just the theory that paying CVO price up front would result in trade in value of a CVO.
And that would "pay off" better than buying a stock ultra adding $20k in parts to hear its worth what any other stock ultra was worth at trade-in.
Turns out I probably lost more on the CVO than anything I have ever bought and sold.   

[FLTRCVO]

Harley made big changes for 14 with project Rushmore (JMO but "not really" big changes as much as good marketing) and now they really have made a big change with the
new M-8's.

We all know that MY 14 hurt resale on all older models and Ray Charles can see whats happening with everything pre MY17.

Is HD riding the double edge sword? 
People like me won't buy the same old twin cam regardless of how much they improve the bag latches or radio.
But if they make real improvements.  Like I believe they have done this year they kill the resale of the previous models.
So they are damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

I wonder if there will be a time when HD's hold resale value again?

Supply and demand is not as easy to control with other real players in the game.

Just curious to get some opinions. 
 
Mostly glad to see HD is building something that I am interested in buying again.

You will have the Old School Purist that believe air cooled is a motorcycle, so that person(s) will be clinging on to the last 103" or 110" he can get his hands on if he or she is a Harley person. Other than that he or she can go Indian, which I believe is protected somewhat from EPA Standards unlike Harley due to their Polaris association and Polaris' complete line of water cooled vehicles, however, I could be completely misinformed on the Polaris part.

The Rushmore was a Rushjob for the EPA with bigger forks, by the way the 17 suspension is made by Showa of Honda fame.

[Toofast_28]

I've been watching the 15 & 16 CVO SG used prices.  eBay seems to top out around $30k, on either year, and classifieds ads the prices gradually drop.  I've seen a few 16s listed by  private sellers at $30k on Craigslist.  Dealerships are trying to get new price on their used ones still (with a few exceptions).  plenty of private sellers on Craigslist ant MSRP+ tax, title, license still and won't budge (I assume they financed it all). They're never going to sell at that price.

[guppytrash]

I don't think that it is the first time HD has used showa suspension. 
Pretty sure there have been foreign tires, brakes, carbs, and suspension components on previous models too.

Probably too soon for people to give up on their asking prices on eBay and craigslist, but I agree they aren't going to sell for that.
That is the double edge sword. 
Finally they make a better bike (hopefully, time will tell) and they have pizzd off anyone who just paid full price for a 15 or 16.
Somebody posted on this site of a dealer price for a new, left over 16 CVO limited, at $30.9k.

No more demand for Harleys plus competition should be good for us buyers long term.  Short term, not so good.  Double edge sword.

Probably going to buy used from now on for me.

[grc]

Harley has been buying forks from Showa for more than a couple decades, so the fact that the 2017 forks are Showa doesn't mean anything special.  Showa, like others, make OEM products to a price point and not just high end stuff.  All those front forks everyone cussed at in the 90's and 00's were also made by Showa.  Just thought I'd pass that along for those who didn't know.  And the same thing is true for Brembo btw.  The high end stuff they sell is not what companies like Harley buy for their production models.

Jerry

[ngshop]

If memory serves me correctly I think the first time "Showa" was on H-D's was 1973.

[Toofast_28]

I don't think that it is the first time HD has used showa suspension. 
Pretty sure there have been foreign tires, brakes, carbs, and suspension components on previous models too.

Probably too soon for people to give up on their asking prices on eBay and craigslist, but I agree they aren't going to sell for that.
That is the double edge sword. 
Finally they make a better bike (hopefully, time will tell) and they have pizzd off anyone who just paid full price for a 15 or 16.
Somebody posted on this site of a dealer price for a new, left over 16 CVO limited, at $30.9k.

No more demand for Harleys plus competition should be good for us buyers long term.  Short term, not so good.  Double edge sword.

Probably going to buy used from now on for me.

I've had 2 dealers offer me $30,599 plus TT&L on a 16 CVO SG.  I still think it's too much, I'd pay that with the 117 on it, but they want MSRP if it has the 117.