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[Para Bellum]

Pan1 asked a question b/c of his HD dealer.  I gave an explanation of how and why so he'd be able to evaluate it.  I didn't have to google it or be a dickhead.

[Fullsac Performance]

Pan1 asked a question b/c of his HD dealer.  I gave an explanation of how and why so he'd be able to evaluate it.  I didn't have to google it or be a dickhead.

I answered Pans very short and simple question correctly but in more words than were needed. My mistake, I quess I invited the detour from topic. Sorry if you didn't like my attempt to put the train back on the tracks. You want to talk about things irrelevant to the HD Motorcycle and toss insults too?
Its all yours, drive it off the cliff.
 

[ultraswede]

Just curious, what change in AFR takes place after the passing through the cat, specific to a Harley Davidson motorcycle?

SG

If a tuner need to ask this.......this is basics for the operation of a three way catalytic converter.
Sir, read up on how this works to avoid spreading more BS.

[Fullsac Performance]

If a tuner need to ask this.......this is basics for the operation of a three way catalytic converter.
Sir, read up on how this works to avoid spreading more BS.

I'm spreading BS? Your killing me! Lol..
I take 02 samples on both sides of the cat. I'm fully aware of the difference. The question was for you Mr Swede.
I'm sorry, I know it was a tough question, so let me share a little. Your auto emissions stuff does not apply here. As you surely read, cats have to get very very hot to function.The cat in a late model car is mounted as close as possible to the exhaust manifold, it will see temps over 1100 degrees continuously. Problem is, cat in the Harley is way downstream and runs way colder than the car stuff. The older cats in the mufflers never see 400 degrees, zero function. The newer style in the headpipe runs hotter but not much. The heat loss from the exhaust port to the face of the cat is substantial, about 50%. So the cats not really at operating temp very often.That's most likely why they don't have or need rear 02 sensors. From what I have seen observing data on the dyno, the cats don't  function unless your running em hard for a while to get em to heat soak. Then you can see an AFR difference from front to back. At idle and easy cruise the AFR diff is virtually zero. I only talk about what I have personally tested. No need to kick me in the balls, I'm just trying to be helpful, like yourself. 

Enjoy your day!

This thread is now officially Hi Jacked! Let the Pies fly!

SG

[spook120]

Both of you...please take a breath and get back to testing and reporting what works with these motors. Thanks in advance.

[Para Bellum]

I answered Pans very short and simple question correctly but in more words than were needed. My mistake, I quess I invited the detour from topic. Sorry if you didn't like my attempt to put the train back on the tracks. You want to talk about things irrelevant to the HD Motorcycle and toss insults too?
Its all yours, drive it off the cliff.
 

So, you make the first insult, someone calls you on it, then you delete your insult post and accuse the other of throwing insults--and also claim you're trying to get the thread back?  That's both dishonest and a dlck.

You say you answered Pan's question correctly, so let's look at your reply (at least until you delete that one too):

The 02 sensors are up stream from the cat, and even if they were behind the cat, they only read oxygen content, not hydro carbons. Sorry, total BS. If the day comes that they put a 5 gas analyzer on the bike, then we have problems.
Steve@fullsac.com

It's well-known O2 content decreases across the cat when HCs (and NO) are burnt.  No cat, no decrease in O2.  Simple logic. Your attempt to impress with talk of 5 gas analyzer was a total fail and totally irrelevant to planes, trains, automobiles...and oh yeah, HD.

I would recommend medication, but there's none available for treatment of Thin-Skinned Egotistical Maniac With Dishonesty Disorder, but you could try to get a grip...LOL.

[Fired00d]

So, you make the first insult, someone calls you on it, then you delete your insult post and accuse the other of throwing insults--and also claim you're trying to get the thread back?  That's both dishonest and a dlck.

You say you answered Pan's question correctly, so let's look at your reply (at least until you delete that one too):It's well-known O2 content decreases across the cat when HCs (and NO) are burnt.  No cat, no decrease in O2.  Simple logic. Your attempt to impress with talk of 5 gas analyzer was a total fail and totally irrelevant to planes, trains, automobiles...and oh yeah, HD.

I would recommend medication, but there's none available for treatment of Thin-Skinned Egotistical Maniac With Dishonesty Disorder, but you could try to get a grip...LOL.

Maybe you should relax and take a breath too.... We can agree to disagree, but insults aren't doing you, those you are insulting or the site any good... lets move on before we (admin/mods) have to intervene. Thanks.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Fullsac Performance]

Hey Para Bellum

Any technical discrepancy's in my last post?

SG

[Para Bellum]

Hey Para Bellum
Any technical discrepancy's in my last post?
SG

Discrepancies?  Yes.  Several times you've stated the O2 sensors read the air:fuel ratio (AFR).  They actually measure only the amount of O2.  That's why they're called O2 sensors.

[Fullsac Performance]

Discrepancies?  Yes.  Several times you've stated the O2 sensors read the air:fuel ratio (AFR).  They actually measure only the amount of O2.  That's why they're called O2 sensors.

My bad, your right.  I am still unable to convert live or even recorded millivolt readings from the Bosch widebands into useful data in my head. I have to rely on a LM2 data logger to convert the signal into a 0-5 volt output that can be viewed as live AFR and or sent to the TTS four channel "green" cartridge for recording by TTS Data Master. I truly believe everyone knows were I was aiming. I'm going to ask the officials for a Mulligan on that one and a brief time out to gather myself before play continues. Gentlemen?

SG

[Twolanerider]

My bad, your right.  I am still unable to convert live or even recorded millivolt readings from the Bosch widebands into useful data in my head. I have to rely on a LM2 data logger to convert the signal into a 0-5 volt output that can be viewed as live AFR and or sent to the TTS four channel "green" cartridge for recording by TTS Data Master. I truly believe everyone knows were I was aiming. I'm going to ask the officials for a Mulligan on that one and a brief time out to gather myself before play continues. Gentlemen?

SG

The bleacher seats grant a donut and a beer to calm your nerves before play continues. 

[SBB]

This place never changes.
Good job Steve.
I enjoy reading your post.


SBB

[FLTRCVO]

I'm spreading BS? Your killing me! Lol..
I take 02 samples on both sides of the cat. I'm fully aware of the difference. The question was for you Mr Swede.
I'm sorry, I know it was a tough question, so let me share a little. Your auto emissions stuff does not apply here. As you surely read, cats have to get very very hot to function.The cat in a late model car is mounted as close as possible to the exhaust manifold, it will see temps over 1100 degrees continuously. Problem is, cat in the Harley is way downstream and runs way colder than the car stuff. The older cats in the mufflers never see 400 degrees, zero function. The newer style in the headpipe runs hotter but not much. The heat loss from the exhaust port to the face of the cat is substantial, about 50%. So the cats not really at operating temp very often.That's most likely why they don't have or need rear 02 sensors. From what I have seen observing data on the dyno, the cats don't  function unless your running em hard for a while to get em to heat soak. Then you can see an AFR difference from front to back. At idle and easy cruise the AFR diff is virtually zero. I only talk about what I have personally tested. No need to kick me in the balls, I'm just trying to be helpful, like yourself. 

Enjoy your day!

This thread is now officially Hi Jacked! Let the Pies fly!

SG

I'm with you 100%, you volunteer your vast research and experience for the benefit of the board members, some forget. Please keep up the great work.