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[grc]

Perhaps it's time for Harley to abandon the dry sump system and go to something simpler and more in tune with their current crop of "talent".  A wet sump system has served well for many types of vehicles for a very long time, and the pumps are very simple devices even Harley should be able to understand.  Or if that's too difficult, they could always try a total loss system with a tank of oil (half of the fuel tank perhaps) and gravity feed.  No oil pump and no filter necessary, and no worries about high oil temps and oil coolers and other nonessential stuff.

Jerry

[CVOStreetglide]

Still no response from my local dealer on progress. Finally great riding weather as well.
Pissing me off.
I am going down there tomorrow.
I also didn't think about the vehicle safety issue which is a complete viable option. Because I actually was almost hit twice because of loss of power in bad situations.
Very serious issues
I am very close to pull the trigger on arranging legal counsel.
Maybe even start arranging a class action law suit.
The more we can form together the better chances we will have to get some attention and get some real answers at least.

Sometimes you have to cut your losses and use Plan B.

Plan B in this case would be to trade it in on a 2018.  I'm betting they will be more than willing to give you a deal and cut new bike add on "up charges" just to make your issue go away.

Best of luck

[Heatwave]

Sometimes you have to cut your losses and use Plan B.

Plan B in this case would be to trade it in on a 2018.  I'm betting they will be more than willing to give you a deal and cut new bike add on "up charges" just to make your issue go away.

Best of luck

Don't count on it. My guess is they will use hocus pocus #s to rob you on the new bike deal. Count on it. They know you're likely to make an emotional financial decision which they will certainly take advantage of.

[mark]

Sometimes you have to cut your losses and use Plan B.

Plan B in this case would be to trade it in on a 2018.  I'm betting they will be more than willing to give you a deal and cut new bike add on "up charges" just to make your issue go away.

Best of luck

Out of curiosity...if you bought a Ford truck, had this much trouble with it, would you want to trade it in on another?  When having this much difficulty with a product, why would a consumer want to buy from the same manufacturer?  The dealer would make money off your trade and your new purchase.  This would Be a win-win for the dealer and the MoCo for manufacturing a flawed product.  Usually the response from someone that had a bad experience with one brand, is to buy from another manufacturer.  Based on the problems posted about the 117, I'd have a hard time walking into my HD dealer to trade for a '18 and let them profit from their own mistakes.

[grc]

Out of curiosity...if you bought a Ford truck, had this much trouble with it, would you want to trade it in on another?  When having this much difficulty with a product, why would a consumer want to buy from the same manufacturer?  The dealer would make money off your trade and your new purchase.  This would Be a win-win for the dealer and the MoCo for manufacturing a flawed product.  Usually the response from someone that had a bad experience with one brand, is to buy from another manufacturer.  Based on the problems posted about the 117, I'd have a hard time walking into my HD dealer to trade for a '18 and let them profit from their own mistakes.

And that is where Harley wins.  While the guys who bought brand Z and had numerous problems and lousy customer service then changed to a different brand, Harley's customers just kept giving them a second and third and fourth and fifth and sixth chance.  Blind loyalty to a seriously flawed company is not the way to pressure that company to do better, and as we have seen repeatedly all that loyalty and repeat business has allowed Harley to keep right on screwing customers for decades.  What will finally grab them by the cajones is the fact that the younger generations are not blindly loyal to anything, unlike the boomers.  The day of reckoning is very near, and I fear they still don't have a clue.

As for the idea of trading in one POS on another potential POS to "fix" the problems with the first POS, only one of those blind Harley customers would think that is any kind of solution.  No dealer is going to trade someone out of a problem bike and not profit on the deal, so the guy who already has $50k invested in a less than 1 year old bike he hasn't been able to use much would now have at least $60k invested in a motorcycle that may be no better than what he had to start with.  What then, do the trade thing again and lose another pile of cash?  Harley and the dealer would be laughing all the way to the bank.

Jerry

[CVOStreetglide]

And that is where Harley wins.  While the guys who bought brand Z and had numerous problems and lousy customer service then changed to a different brand, Harley's customers just kept giving them a second and third and fourth and fifth and sixth chance.  Blind loyalty to a seriously flawed company is not the way to pressure that company to do better, and as we have seen repeatedly all that loyalty and repeat business has allowed Harley to keep right on screwing customers for decades.  What will finally grab them by the cajones is the fact that the younger generations are not blindly loyal to anything, unlike the boomers.  The day of reckoning is very near, and I fear they still don't have a clue.

As for the idea of trading in one POS on another potential POS to "fix" the problems with the first POS, only one of those blind Harley customers would think that is any kind of solution.  No dealer is going to trade someone out of a problem bike and not profit on the deal, so the guy who already has $50k invested in a less than 1 year old bike he hasn't been able to use much would now have at least $60k invested in a motorcycle that may be no better than what he had to start with.  What then, do the trade thing again and lose another pile of cash?  Harley and the dealer would be laughing all the way to the bank.

Jerry

In my opinion and experience
Over the years we usually can all discuss very sensitive issues like this and at least agree to disagree.

No solution is perfect here but I can tell you this, if you bring an attorney into the equation any type of concessions are essentially over. The dealer won't talk with you nor will HD Corporate. Everything will run through the attorneys.. theirs who are full time paid employees and yours that you will be paying for. You will experience running up sizeable attorney fees and face the possibility of not having your motorcycle repaired to your satisfaction in a timely manner. Anything positive will be stopped until the attorneys negotiate and agree what the plan will be.

The end result will be far more total expense not less.

Harley Corporate on the other hand may, like a car dealer, be willing to take the bike back and give you a deal on a new one. They may fix the existing bike to their standards (stock) and sell it with a warranty. The rest of the unrecovered expense would be written off.

On the other side of the deal, we all know there is considerable financial latitude in these bikes and under these circumstances I am suggesting they would be willing to make a thin profit or break even deal.  Why would they do that? They want to retain a repeat customer and minimize any negative publicity. 

Jerry, we both know this isn't our decision to make. It rests with the owner. Like you, I am willing to share my own experiences in this subject to aid in a better informed decision and solution.

Now I need to get back to the very demanding Hurricane.

Best Regards to everyone.

Other Jerry

[harleytacticalnut]

I went by the dealer today.
The good is that the cooling jets were torqued fine at 35 ft lbs from Harley, the lower end rotated very clean and free, there was a 1/16" play in the connecting rods from side to side that the mechanic said should be there for the need of expansion for heat. The cylinders looked clean with no scars in them. Ported cylinder heads looked very clean, piston heads looked good, plugs looked very clean.
The bad. They pulled the motor apart on Monday. They never called me back to look at the bike when it was disassembled. Had I not shown up today they would still be waiting on me.
Where is the sense of urgency?
They blamed it on a bad phone number however when they looked it up in the system it is the same number that they had on file and no problem reaching me on when they needed more cash!!!!
I was then notified by the mechanic that the factory rep told him he would send him the current revision 3 oil pump and everything needed to install it.
However the mechanic notified me today that he has been waiting on me all week to look at the motor before he ordered the gaskets that were not sent with the oil pump.
So I now have to wait for them to order them, get them in, and wait for his schedule to clear up before he can reassemble the bike. Another 1-1.5 weeks away.
This really sucks that all the bull chit I have been thru and they are putting me on the back burners and once they actually complete my bike the riding season is going to be gone.
The mechanic is very honest and nice however I just don't know how much more I can weather.
Again not all the correct parts needed, poor scheduling, piss poor communications,
I feel like I am actually losing my mind somewhere in all of this.
Am I in some kind of twilight zone?

[J.D.]

Unfortunately from what I have observed this is as much the norm as exception.

[CVOStreetglide]

I went by the dealer today.
The good is that the cooling jets were torqued fine at 35 ft lbs from Harley, the lower end rotated very clean and free, there was a 1/16" play in the connecting rods from side to side that the mechanic said should be there for the need of expansion for heat. The cylinders looked clean with no scars in them. Ported cylinder heads looked very clean, piston heads looked good, plugs looked very clean.
The bad. They pulled the motor apart on Monday. They never called me back to look at the bike when it was disassembled. Had I not shown up today they would still be waiting on me.
Where is the sense of urgency?
They blamed it on a bad phone number however when they looked it up in the system it is the same number that they had on file and no problem reaching me on when they needed more cash!!!!
I was then notified by the mechanic that the factory rep told him he would send him the current revision 3 oil pump and everything needed to install it.
However the mechanic notified me today that he has been waiting on me all week to look at the motor before he ordered the gaskets that were not sent with the oil pump.
So I now have to wait for them to order them, get them in, and wait for his schedule to clear up before he can reassemble the bike. Another 1-1.5 weeks away.
This really sucks that all the bull chit I have been thru and they are putting me on the back burners and once they actually complete my bike the riding season is going to be gone.
The mechanic is very honest and nice however I just don't know how much more I can weather.
Again not all the correct parts needed, poor scheduling, piss poor communications,
I feel like I am actually losing my mind somewhere in all of this.
Am I in some kind of twilight zone?

Please go and see the Service Manager and the General Manager and ask for their help. I am sure they can find a way to get you out of the shop as soon as....

Best regards

Other Jerry

[mark]

Please go and see the Service Manager and the General Manager and ask for their help. I am sure they can find a way to get you out of the shop as soon as....

Best regards

Other Jerry

Or, it may be time to walk into a BMW, Yamaha, or Indian dealer...

[J.D.]

Ok realistically the dealer will ultimately fix the bike and it will run fine.  Unfortunately without an attorney pinpointing exactly where HD broke any laws or regulations this will be a done deal.  As a friend of mine would say, "being an asshole unfortunately is not illegal".  I don't see how unloading it now toward either a 2018 HD or other brand solves anything.  Hopefully the bike runs good and is reliable from now on and you enjoy it, but I would suspect it will be awhile before this experience is forgotten.  And thanks to the good ol interweb the MoCo just lost a few more potential customers and will continue to keep losing them as long as these types of bad customer service interactions are reported.

[harleytacticalnut]

Still no word from anyone.
Waiting very patiently
Cancelled my 25th wedding anniversary trip to the tail of the dragon in deals gap, just don't know if I will have a bike to ride.

[harleytacticalnut]

The acting general manager asked me to give them till today before I cancelled to see if he can have my bike ready by then. Promised me he would let me know. Never heard from him. I cancelled the reservation just now to find out I missed the cancellation time frame by 1 day and got charged $2,000 anyway.
Just my luck.
Adding more salt to the wound because when i spoke to him in person Friday I was going to cancel it then and he asked me to give him until today.
Cancelled anniversary reservations as well as another $2000 loss.
Where does this all end??

[Twolanerider]

The acting general manager asked me to give them till today before I cancelled to see if he can have my bike ready by then. Promised me he would let me know. Never heard from him. I cancelled the reservation just now to find out I missed the cancellation time frame by 1 day and got charged $2,000 anyway.
Just my luck.
Adding more salt to the wound because when i spoke to him in person Friday I was going to cancel it then and he asked me to give him until today.
Cancelled anniversary reservations as well as another $2000 loss.
Where does this all end??

Doesn't address the parsimonious and pusillanimous issues of Mother Harley but, most times, if you ask your credit card company to charge back the fee a hotel property charges for a cancelled reservation it will happen.  You're being charged for a product or service never provided.  That particular hotel might not want you back.  But you can likely save the money.

[harleytacticalnut]

Still calling the customer service reps every other day. I have noticed they are seeing my number and all of them are becoming very impatient and actually are rude to me now.
They used to make me give them a case number or VIN number before they would assist me, now they just address me in a different light.
Almost to the point of discriminating a troublesome customer. !!!!!!!
Actually today someone answered the customer service line 3 times and immediately forwarded them to rest me to the beginning prompts.
This took place 3 times and a rude lady finally answered on the forth time because she noticed my number. The customer service reps are actually monitoring the line for phone numbers.
Again almost like they are discriminating against troublesome customers!!!!!!!
They are being non cooperative and very rude the more that I push.
Still haven't had anyone with any responsible authority actually have a decent professional discussion about my bike, my rights and plain out what is the right thing to do to address my needs.
It is quite shameful actually.
If I operated my business in that order then I would be out of business and laying off all of my employees as well as spending all of my other time in and out of the court systems.
They are really burning a nasty bridge with me now. They are not responsive and are stonewalling my every effort trying to reach someone with authority.
 Legal threats have went to no avail so they are running out of time as well as I am running out of patience.
Been an absolute nightmare of a riding season. Especially when I traded in both of my other Harley's for this one to not even ride this season. The very first one in over 20+ years.
Again sorry for the