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Author Topic: Harley Sales Go From Bad to Worse  (Read 4666 times)

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Boatman

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Re: Harley Sales Go From Bad to Worse
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2018, 11:15:51 AM »

No new CVO Limiteds for me.  Not for $45K and you can buy a Wing, BMW, or Yammie with more features, handle and ride better, more power for $17K less.

FWIW-I don't think many motorcycles are being sold period of any brand.  And a Indian IMO is just about like a Harley in most regards so wouldn't buy one either.
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grc

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Re: Harley Sales Go From Bad to Worse
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2018, 11:54:37 AM »

JUST WONDERING IF ANY OF THE "SHARE HOLDERS" own a H-D? if not ,maybe they should try the product they're investing in. then a whole lot of corporate exec's would be out the door

 :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:

The shareholders that count (to the executives and the board anyway) are those big faceless entities like pension plans, not individual investors.  That kind of institutional investor doesn't care what kind of product you make, all they care about is the financials and future prospects.  With that in mind, I expect a lot of big investors to be selling off Harley stock as it becomes more and more obvious the management and the board of directors have no clue.

JMHO - Jerry
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Re: Harley Sales Go From Bad to Worse
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2018, 12:15:34 PM »

Just my observation.  When I bought Petunia in 2009, this site was hopping. As new model years were released the site became flooded with new site members and thousands of new posts.  It seemed like a hundred new posts per day.

Over the past few years this has not been the case. Recent releases of new model years have not brought the flood on new members like the past. I suspect it is closely related to HD’s drop in sales and the lack of interest in their offerings.

 :oops: :nixweiss:

I've observed (felt) this as well. However, I attribute this more to the changing landscape of the internet. Specifically, the growth of apps and sites such as Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and such. Lots of stuff out there dragging eyeballs away. In addition, there are a lot of videos on youtube that fit a motorcycle niche.

There's nothing like the in-depth discussion and information on this board but it also requires an attention span a bit longer than the life of a fruit fly.

As Haird noted, we're still here - let's make the newcomers welcome.

Simon
 
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iski

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Re: Harley Sales Go From Bad to Worse
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2018, 01:34:51 PM »

I've observed (felt) this as well. However, I attribute this more to the changing landscape of the internet. Specifically, the growth of apps and sites such as Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and such. Lots of stuff out there dragging eyeballs away. In addition, there are a lot of videos on youtube that fit a motorcycle niche.

There's nothing like the in-depth discussion and information on this board but it also requires an attention span a bit longer than the life of a fruit fly.

As Haird noted, we're still here - let's make the newcomers welcome.

Simon

Agreed the newcomers should feel welcome.  Reading some threads, yes, welcome to a "lifestyle."  Enthusiasm, love of motorcycling and all that involves.  Have been there since before I owned one, must have been about 12 years old.  First bike at 16 sealed the deal.

Other threads are more like "welcome to the funeral."   Doom & gloom and the MoCo will be out of business by next week or maybe next month.  Not exactly inspirational for a new rider who just spent $40-50k on their up-until-then Pride & Joy on 2 wheels.  Not to the point that the board has a "How Much Do You Hate HD" section, but it's a running theme of a sort.

Not advocating Pollyanna-ism.  Realism is fine, warts & all.  HD is suffering as much from the newer generations disinterest in riding on 2 motorized wheels (same deal is affecting non related industries, this generation, it be different) as it is from Indian having a decent product & the HD core riders getting too old to ride.  Bikes with known issues HD will not address is bad ju ju.

Good to see new riders, younger riders.  Hope they feel welcome here.  We are not all going to hell in a handbasket or on 2 wheels, sometimes it just seems like it.  Unless the 2 wheeled riding demographic changes, HD will have to adjust to reduced sales long term more than they already have.  What that means is anybody's guess.
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HighOnHD

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Re: Harley Sales Go From Bad to Worse
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2018, 10:08:41 PM »

Agreed the newcomers should feel welcome.  Reading some threads, yes, welcome to a "lifestyle."  Enthusiasm, love of motorcycling and all that involves.  Have been there since before I owned one, must have been about 12 years old.  First bike at 16 sealed the deal.

Other threads are more like "welcome to the funeral."   Doom & gloom and the MoCo will be out of business by next week or maybe next month.  Not exactly inspirational for a new rider who just spent $40-50k on their up-until-then Pride & Joy on 2 wheels.  Not to the point that the board has a "How Much Do You Hate HD" section, but it's a running theme of a sort.

Not advocating Pollyanna-ism.  Realism is fine, warts & all.  HD is suffering as much from the newer generations disinterest in riding on 2 motorized wheels (same deal is affecting non related industries, this generation, it be different) as it is from Indian having a decent product & the HD core riders getting too old to ride.  Bikes with known issues HD will not address is bad ju ju.

Good to see new riders, younger riders.  Hope they feel welcome here.  We are not all going to hell in a handbasket or on 2 wheels, sometimes it just seems like it.  Unless the 2 wheeled riding demographic changes, HD will have to adjust to reduced sales long term more than they already have.  What that means is anybody's guess.

Well said iski. Could not agree more!
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iski

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Re: Harley Sales Go From Bad to Worse
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2018, 11:18:35 PM »

Well said iski. Could not agree more!

Thanks HighOnHD. 

A shorter way to have said it would be "Rumors of HD's demise have been somewhat exaggerated."   8)
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Re: Harley Sales Go From Bad to Worse
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2018, 12:16:11 AM »

with the dumping issues I have been dealing with I have done everything in my power to find something other than a Harley to fall in love with and I just couldn't to my complete disappointment. Bottom line to me is if you love these damn bikes as much as I unfortunately do there just flat out is nothing like it. I could list just about every competitor for Harley that I have test rode,reaserched like I was taking the test of my life and I could list everything that is better on them compared to a Harley and it would be a long list. They are either faster, handle better, better ergonomics, better suspension, much less money and certainly more reliable (just about every one of them) but DA-- it, I just don't feel the same way when I ride them.
I love anything that has a motor and 2 wheels and I definitely cant explain what I am saying here and I usually am fairly good about explaining how I feel.
Bottom line is after months of trying to find a way to stop dealing with these Harley issues and buying a different brand that is less money, faster, handles better and doesn't have sumping problems I have stopped trying to use my head and now am going completely with my gut and just going to accept that I love these da-- bikes and am going to stop torturing myself!
Cant wait to go ride my bike tomorrow...
Hopefully some of you out there "get it"
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Alan

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Re: Harley Sales Go From Bad to Worse
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2018, 09:20:21 AM »

This thread was not meant to do anything except post current market news.  I don't think anyone here wants to see HD in the mess they are in.  In today's market they need to offer a world class product at a competitive price.  HD needs to make some major changes - changes that we all as enthusiasts want.  If not, I believe we'll see more similar news.  In the mean time I'll continue to ride mine as will most everyone else here.  However, no way I'm upgrading to a new one, at least not anytime soon.
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Mark

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Re: Harley Sales Go From Bad to Worse
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2018, 09:38:29 AM »

This thread was not meant to do anything except post current market news.  I don't think anyone here wants to see HD in the mess they are in.  In today's market they need to offer a world class product at a competitive price.  HD needs to make some major changes - changes that we all as enthusiasts want.  If not, I believe we'll see more similar news.  In the mean time I'll continue to ride mine as will most everyone else here.  However, no way I'm upgrading to a new one, at least not anytime soon.

And this is one of HD's significant problems...die-hard customers wanting to trade for a new bike, but aren't willing to take the risk of paying premium prices for a problematic product.  I can't think of another company that suffers from so many self inflicted wounds.  If it takes outsourcing engine design, then so be it.  They did it with the Revolution engine, maybe they should have done it with the M8.
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grc

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Re: Harley Sales Go From Bad to Worse
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2018, 10:21:49 AM »


Telling it like it is, versus just telling people what they want to hear, is always met with disdain for the teller from the folks who believe no one should ever say anything negative about their favorite product, person, entity, etc.  Such is life I suppose.  On the other hand, if no one would step up to say the Emperor has no clothes, things would never change for the better.  Harley has had decades to get their chit together, and they threw away all those opportunities thanks to greed and incompetence at the highest levels.  They had better hope they can make enough money selling glorified mopeds to the hordes of Indians and Chinese who will become the main market for their products, after they run off much of the American market.

Jerry
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HighOnHD

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Re: Harley Sales Go From Bad to Worse
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2018, 10:47:42 AM »

with the dumping issues I have been dealing with I have done everything in my power to find something other than a Harley to fall in love with and I just couldn't to my complete disappointment. Bottom line to me is if you love these damn bikes as much as I unfortunately do there just flat out is nothing like it. I could list just about every competitor for Harley that I have test rode,reaserched like I was taking the test of my life and I could list everything that is better on them compared to a Harley and it would be a long list. They are either faster, handle better, better ergonomics, better suspension, much less money and certainly more reliable (just about every one of them) but DA-- it, I just don't feel the same way when I ride them.
I love anything that has a motor and 2 wheels and I definitely cant explain what I am saying here and I usually am fairly good about explaining how I feel.
Bottom line is after months of trying to find a way to stop dealing with these Harley issues and buying a different brand that is less money, faster, handles better and doesn't have sumping problems I have stopped trying to use my head and now am going completely with my gut and just going to accept that I love these da-- bikes and am going to stop torturing myself!
Cant wait to go ride my bike tomorrow...
Hopefully some of you out there "get it"

I feel for you SDCVO! Some people "get it" and some people don't. For the ones that don't... there are a lot of self help books out there to help them get over it, and if not maybe they should just move on with their lives! Life is too short to be grouchy and bitching and moaning all the time. :)
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stemp1

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Re: Harley Sales Go From Bad to Worse
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2018, 04:26:14 PM »

I attended the southeast hog rally last year, attendance down with only a couple younger riders and their wives, mostly older couples and a lot of trikes, the new chrome less bikes do not appeal to me (57 yrs old) , with quality heading in downward spiral something has to change fast !
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Para Bellum

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Re: Harley Sales Go From Bad to Worse
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2018, 07:01:31 PM »

Telling it like it is, versus just telling people what they want to hear, is always met with disdain for the teller from the folks who believe no one should ever say anything negative about their favorite product, person, entity, etc.  Such is life I suppose.  On the other hand, if no one would step up to say the Emperor has no clothes, things would never change for the better.  Harley has had decades to get their chit together, and they threw away all those opportunities thanks to greed and incompetence at the highest levels.  They had better hope they can make enough money selling glorified mopeds to the hordes of Indians and Chinese who will become the main market for their products, after they run off much of the American market.

Jerry
I agree whole-heartedly about the greed at the very top, but it seems like it was very competent, at least on previous-CEO Wandell's part.  In his quest to "align the interests of the CEO and the company with the interests of the shareholders" (meaning the big institutional investors and Wall St.), he deliberately and knowingly cut the price (and thus the quality) Harley paid for every part, piece, and process he could.  That, plus keeping the high prices on bikes, parts, and merchandise, made a lot of money for the company, made the stock price rise, and provided exorbitant salaries and bonuses for himself and his minions.

During his time as CEO, Wandell made over $1 billion dollars.  In that respect, he was very competent, but in the process he screwed a lot of customers, and now the fallout is settling on HD.  Of course, he doesn't care, as he got out just as the downturn began.  In the terms used by Wall St., HD had a big "bubble" going, which always leads to a bust.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 07:04:46 PM by Para Bellum »
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Re: Harley Sales Go From Bad to Worse
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2018, 12:37:30 AM »

/\ A sad but very true statement!
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