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Author Topic: HD's fix for the oil transfer as of now.  (Read 3363 times)

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Buck Rogers

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Re: HD's fix for the oil transfer as of now.
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2018, 06:04:37 AM »

How does lowering pressure in the primary help stop oil transfer from transmission? I would've thought it had the opposite result.
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Fullsac Performance

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Re: HD's fix for the oil transfer as of now.
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2018, 09:12:57 AM »

How does lowering pressure in the primary help stop oil transfer from transmission? I would've thought it had the opposite result.


In theory the primary is sealed and the trans is vented. Because oil is transferring from the trans into the primary we can competently say there is a passage between the two. I would be the first to claim the primary runs substantially hotter than the trans. During heat up the primary's expanding air or gasses would push into the trans and out the vent. During cool down the the primary would pull a vacuum. Maybe the primary is sucking the the oil out of the trans during cool down? If this is what's actually going on, adding a vent would be the cure. Steve Cole and I both have delt with oil transfer from day one with these M8s on the dyno after running them hard. There are many cool down periods in a normal dyno session while making map adjustments. The symptoms of an over filled primary is power loss and heat gain as the drag from excessive oil increases. Similar situation to the crankcase filling up at a much lower level. The last 2018-117 I dynoed lost a couple of HP at the very end of the tune. I pulled the primay cover and sure enough the oil level was about an inch too high. I never considered the oil being drawn over as the primary cooled? Time for me to try a vent too.

Steve@fullsac.com


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Mark

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Re: HD's fix for the oil transfer as of now.
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2018, 09:32:44 AM »

Steve, why did we not see the fluid transfer from the trans to the primary on the twin cam bikes?
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Fullsac Performance

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Re: HD's fix for the oil transfer as of now.
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2018, 09:45:15 AM »

Steve, why did we not see the fluid transfer from the trans to the primary on the twin cam bikes?

Not a clue? Never grenaded a trans to ever have one apart to see the path or differences.

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Buck Rogers

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Re: HD's fix for the oil transfer as of now.
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2018, 10:05:48 AM »


In theory the primary is sealed and the trans is vented. Because oil is transferring from the trans into the primary we can competently say there is a passage between the two. I would be the first to claim the primary runs substantially hotter than the trans. During heat up the primary's expanding air or gasses would push into the trans and out the vent. During cool down the the primary would pull a vacuum. Maybe the primary is sucking the the oil out of the trans during cool down? If this is what's actually going on, adding a vent would be the cure. Steve Cole and I both have delt with oil transfer from day one with these M8s on the dyno after running them hard. There are many cool down periods in a normal dyno session while making map adjustments. The symptoms of an over filled primary is power loss and heat gain as the drag from excessive oil increases. Similar situation to the crankcase filling up at a much lower level. The last 2018-117 I dynoed lost a couple of HP at the very end of the tune. I pulled the primay cover and sure enough the oil level was about an inch too high. I never considered the oil being drawn over as the primary cooled? Time for me to try a vent too.

Steve@fullsac.com


Black bikes are faster.


Thanks, Steve.

That makes a lot of sense and I hope it is the fix for the transfer problem. I have a 2017 FLHXSE with this problem along with other problems. Been toying with trading for 2019 but waiting to see colours.
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Re: HD's fix for the oil transfer as of now.
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2018, 11:04:20 AM »


Thanks, Steve.

That makes a lot of sense and I hope it is the fix for the transfer problem. I have a 2017 FLHXSE with this problem along with other problems. Been toying with trading for 2019 but waiting to see colours.

The vent does make sense. The differential and transfer case in every vehicle I have ever owned is vented. I find water in the wheel bearings on my boat trailer every year living in Havasu. It's 115 deg and you back it in the cold water, sucks it right in as it cools. The wheel bearings are not vented. If the vent is the fix, that would explain it. The latest Harley tech read here first on the CVO forum!  "Primary cold suck" discovered and fixed. Let's hope. Lol..

I would hold off on that 2019 until about March. See what has actually been fixed and what new issues were created in the process.

Steve@fullsac.com
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 11:08:11 AM by Fullsac Performance »
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Re: HD's fix for the oil transfer as of now.
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2018, 02:04:47 PM »


So once again, Harley has changed something and screwed it up, they have to know what it is, but they won't tell us and they won't go back and fix it the right way.  Here comes another band-aid instead.  I can't wait to see this vent they've come up with.  Is it just a hole drilled in the case with a tube attached, or did they at least spend more than a buck to come up with a good vent that won't suck dirt and water into the primary?

Jerry
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Re: HD's fix for the oil transfer as of now.
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2018, 08:58:13 AM »

So once again, Harley has changed something and screwed it up, they have to know what it is, but they won't tell us and they won't go back and fix it the right way.  Here comes another band-aid instead.  I can't wait to see this vent they've come up with.  Is it just a hole drilled in the case with a tube attached, or did they at least spend more than a buck to come up with a good vent that won't suck dirt and water into the primary?

Jerry
Jerry other than a picture of one someone made I think, I haven't seen HD's one but I'd hope it would cost more than a buck but who knows.
 I can say that it has solved the transfer from the guy I knows CVO, he was transferring his tranny dry around 500 miles and now he's had 0 transfer in 2000 miles. He had ran the trans dry 3 times it was so bad. I actually think that Cool Springs HD came up with this fix on there own according to what I read. StoneCold also has a fix but it's a bit more complicated but works as well. It's over on the HD forums, he and Steve Cole came up with his fix.
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bf2002flht

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Re: HD's fix for the oil transfer as of now.
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2019, 07:04:20 PM »

Well just got my bike back today, Harley installed a breather hose in my primary since the first fix made it worse. The HD fix looks nothing like the pic earlier in this thread (thank goodness). My dealer called MOCO for direction and they sent them a primary vent/breather kit. It’s almost unnoticeable unless you are looking for it. I will try to get a pic later, but this is my direct experience and bike.
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Re: HD's fix for the oil transfer as of now.
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2019, 06:58:47 AM »

Well just got my bike back today, Harley installed a breather hose in my primary since the first fix made it worse. The HD fix looks nothing like the pic earlier in this thread (thank goodness). My dealer called MOCO for direction and they sent them a primary vent/breather kit. It’s almost unnoticeable unless you are looking for it. I will try to get a pic later, but this is my direct experience and bike.
What was the first fix they tried that made it worse?
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bf2002flht

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Re: HD's fix for the oil transfer as of now.
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2019, 08:28:09 AM »

What was the first fix they tried that made it worse?
It was an oil deflector that went in under the transmission side cover. Apparently it’s the first attempt step. I was told when they put the vent tube in the primary the instructions were to remove the first fix.
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Re: HD's fix for the oil transfer as of now.
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2019, 08:34:06 AM »


I for one would still love to know why this wasn't a problem on the earlier engines but became a big problem on the M8's.  As best I can tell the primary has always run hotter than the trans, but that didn't lead to fluid transfer on the TC's.

Jerry
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bf2002flht

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Re: HD's fix for the oil transfer as of now.
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2019, 08:49:41 AM »

I for one would still love to know why this wasn't a problem on the earlier engines but became a big problem on the M8's.  As best I can tell the primary has always run hotter than the trans, but that didn't lead to fluid transfer on the TC's.

Jerry
It’s funny that the TSA 0022 (I think) refers to 14-16 and 17-18. So somebody at HD heard about it I would guess, but it’s MOCO, who knows. I do agree I never heard of it prior to the M8’s either.


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HOGMIKE

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Re: HD's fix for the oil transfer as of now.
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2019, 10:32:28 AM »

It’s funny that the TSA 0022 (I think) refers to 14-16 and 17-18. So somebody at HD heard about it I would guess, but it’s MOCO, who knows. I do agree I never heard of it prior to the M8’s either.


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Dealership now has access to the kit to fix the issue and they are allowed to do it with their technicians instead of waiting on factory techs to come out.
There is still a “procedure “ to do before the fix, but I’ll bet it will be a running change from the factory.
 8)
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flash1034

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Re: HD's fix for the oil transfer as of now.
« Reply #44 on: April 16, 2019, 09:00:31 PM »

Dealership now has access to the kit to fix the issue and they are allowed to do it with their technicians instead of waiting on factory techs to come out.
There is still a “procedure “ to do before the fix, but I’ll bet it will be a running change from the factory.
 8)

Anybody have a picture of this fix?
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