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Author Topic: Current HD Sales  (Read 2656 times)

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iski

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2018, 03:10:31 PM »

Bleak outlook.  Suppose in one respect there is a silver lining - there will be fewer 2019 bikes for HD to recall in 2020 because the sales numbers will be lower.
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muddypaws

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Bill

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Re: More bad news for Harley
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2018, 04:40:56 PM »

not good news for the moco!! :'(
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2002FXDWG3

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Re: More bad news for Harley
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2018, 04:54:31 PM »

Stock down to 33 today from a 52-wk high of 56.  Brutal.  Bad customer service and sumping engines isn't going to help matters.
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Joel

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2018, 04:57:29 PM »

ISKI that is a very positive statement for MOCO for sure
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Joel

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2018, 05:07:11 PM »

Just received a message from the dealer here in Spokane that the show room floor is full of new bikes and wanted to know if I was still interested in getting a new Bike because they believe they have the new CVO Ultra Limited with the 117 engine I asked about.
I haven't been there sense July!
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iski

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2018, 07:37:43 PM »

ISKI that is a very positive statement for MOCO for sure

Yes it is Joel.  Not good for the dealer service departments though, since that has become a big part of their operation over the past few years.
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2002FXDWG3

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2018, 07:41:17 PM »

Any time I stop by a dealer lately seems the service department is packed and the showroom is empty.
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muddypaws

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2018, 08:04:25 AM »

I was at the local dealer yesterday. There were only 6 people in the showroom and not one under 60..
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Bill

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2018, 08:29:00 AM »

When I do see people in the showroom, they just appear to be looking and not buying much.
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Heatwave

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2018, 11:04:25 AM »

This US HD Sales chart says it all. I anticipate 4th Qtr 2018 to have even worse sales numbers than the 3rd Qtr.
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Ironhorse

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2018, 11:47:33 AM »

It could be a reflection of the economy and consumer confidence. How are other bike makers doing? Are sales steady or rising for Honda, Kawasaki, and Indian?
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michaelokielee@yahoo.com

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2018, 12:08:04 PM »

Doesn't matter to me, I got a 2019 should last me 10 years.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 12:12:53 PM by michaelokielee@yahoo.com »
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lyn.husen

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2018, 01:09:35 PM »

It could be a reflection of the economy and consumer confidence. How are other bike makers doing? Are sales steady or rising for Honda, Kawasaki, and Indian?
I had heard on Fox Business news earlier this morning that Consumer Confidence is at 98%.


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Heatwave

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2018, 01:34:42 PM »

It could be a reflection of the economy and consumer confidence. How are other bike makers doing? Are sales steady or rising for Honda, Kawasaki, and Indian?

Quote from Polaris (Indian) 3rd Qtr Financial report for North America "Indian Motorcycle retail sales increased low-single digits, in spite of an overall weak N.A. motorcycle market."

According to Honda's 3rd Qtr 2018 Financial report, their North America Honda Motorcycle Unit sales were up 7%.

Kawasaki motorcycle unit sales (global, they do not breakdown motorcycle sales by region) are up 7.4% according to their latest 2018 financial report.
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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2018, 02:06:11 PM »

Situation over here:

LOTS of guys over here got into their dreams of motoring in the ´90s and beginning (100th Anni) 2K

Fact: The market for used HD is actually CROWDED in Germany! plus all the ´16 ´17 ´18 that tried to get sold by individuals....

Gentlemen.... I had a pretty wealthy friend that died 2 years ago with beautiful 70 years, opening his business to his last day always around 6 am!!!!

He said to me one time: mike, none of my rich customers could explain to me, for what ´good the second Million is...... or number five or whatever. He was one of the biggest Salespersons in Germany for Cuban Cigars. He knows the WhoisWho of Germany...

Actually I have two V2 dream bikes of mine, with no problems on the road at all (Never say never again!!) 95cui, 110 cui....

Please give me a reason to swap or to get an additional bike?? I mean the bikes after Mount Rushmore.... More HP?? No your kiddin`..... The electronic gadgets?? Paintjob??

Next bike?? Would love to built a Knuckle in a ´58 or ´59 dropped frame.

Next Million??? Far away......  :)
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scottt

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2018, 10:08:36 PM »

Quote from Polaris (Indian) 3rd Qtr Financial report for North America "Indian Motorcycle retail sales increased low-single digits, in spite of an overall weak N.A. motorcycle market."

According to Honda's 3rd Qtr 2018 Financial report, their North America Honda Motorcycle Unit sales were up 7%.

Kawasaki motorcycle unit sales (global, they do not breakdown motorcycle sales by region) are up 7.4% according to their latest 2018 financial report.
BMW motorcycle sales are also doing relatively well.

Harley has never faced so much competition. The new Honda Goldwing, Yamaha Venture, Indian, BMW B and Grand American. Many of these competitors are offering big discounts on bikes that beat Harley performance, handling, brakes, features and many with great styling. It's a new day.

Harley has it's self in a corner, trying to build bikes that maintain a look, sound and feel from the past ( that I like ) but don't really compete with the competition. Today's buyer is demanding more than ever. They want comfort, performance right off the showroom floor, durability, handling, features, on and on.

Hopefully Harley will take some chances with there touring line. Build a bike that competes on all levels, even if that means a different power plant.

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JCZ

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2018, 12:16:17 AM »

Doesn't matter to me, I got a 2019 should last me 10 years.

Not if you ride it.   :nixweiss:
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Trapperdog

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2018, 12:29:19 AM »

Not if you ride it.   :nixweiss:
That there is funny. True, but funny
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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2018, 08:11:05 AM »

The worldwide motorcycle market is bleak, especially in large displacement bikes. Some companies with low volume like Triumph and Polaris are experiencing some increases but a 10% increase on 58,000 units is tiny when compared to Harley sales. No one is close to Honda in world wide sales. All market foresters have a negative view of the motorcycle segment as millennials are just not interested in motorcycles much less cars.

That being said Trump is at war with HD, for reacting to the marketplace and Trumps own disruptions,  crippling not just farmers and but other farming and manufacturing segments. I have never heard of an American President attacking an American company. HD Thailand manufacturing is only for European sales and Trump is talking about taxing HD imports! Polaris has long been building units outside of the US, Trump just never bothers to find out real facts.

Fortune ran a recent article saying that an added problem was Harleys just last too long and that is a problem.

This is a real economic challenge for HD and I for one hope they survive and win.
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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2018, 08:32:54 AM »

"Fortune ran a recent article saying that an added problem was Harleys just last too long and that is a problem."

 :zroflmao:   :ROFLOL:   :zroflmao:

Harley's last a long time, but it's not due to anything Harley does.  It has to do with what the customers and aftermarket do to constantly update and repair them, starting from very early in the ownership experience.  It's another trait of the Boomer generation that won't transfer to our current youngsters, based on my observations of how they treat their cars, phones, etc.

JMHO - Jerry
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lyn.husen

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2018, 08:55:08 AM »

"Fortune ran a recent article saying that an added problem was Harleys just last too long and that is a problem."

 :zroflmao:   :ROFLOL:   :zroflmao:

Harley's last a long time, but it's not due to anything Harley does.  It has to do with what the customers and aftermarket do to constantly update and repair them, starting from very early in the ownership experience.  It's another trait of the Boomer generation that won't transfer to our current youngsters, based on my observations of how they treat their cars, phones, etc.

JMHO - Jerry
As far as the Boomer generation goes we were taught Pride in Ownership. Today’s kids think everything is disposable or they need the latest & greatest.


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Heatwave

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2018, 09:34:15 AM »

The worldwide motorcycle market is bleak, especially in large displacement bikes. Some companies with low volume like Triumph and Polaris are experiencing some increases but a 10% increase on 58,000 units is tiny when compared to Harley sales. No one is close to Honda in world wide sales. All market foresters have a negative view of the motorcycle segment as millennials are just not interested in motorcycles much less cars.

That being said Trump is at war with HD, for reacting to the marketplace and Trumps own disruptions,  crippling not just farmers and but other farming and manufacturing segments. I have never heard of an American President attacking an American company. HD Thailand manufacturing is only for European sales and Trump is talking about taxing HD imports! Polaris has long been building units outside of the US, Trump just never bothers to find out real facts.

Fortune ran a recent article saying that an added problem was Harleys just last too long and that is a problem.

This is a real economic challenge for HD and I for one hope they survive and win.

Sounds like you’re making excuses and looking to blame others for HD’s failures of their own making. Trying to place blame on a President for a company’s lack of leadership and insight to their own market is no one’s fault but the executives that run the company.

If Harley decides to manufacture their motorcycles overseas and sell them to Americans, its certainly their right. But they will no longer be an American motorcycle from my perspective.

They have been focused on squeezing the most money they can out of their loyal customers while investing the least they can. The competition is delivering higher quality motorcycles with more technology, features and capabilities than the latest Harley’s.

Compare the features and technology of a 2019 BMW Grand America or Homda Goldwing to a 2019 CVO Limited. The BMW and Honda’s are more powerful with every feature on a CVO PLUS they include a backup gear, power adjustable windshield AND COST $15,000 LESS. That is unsustainable and has nothing to do with President Trump.

Harley sales will fall through the floor for 2019. The 2020 models will be make or break for the MoCo. Either they start producing motorcycles of higher quality and value with the 2020 models or I predict the CEO will be fired in mid-late 2020 and the company will become a serious take-over candidate. Mark my words.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 10:12:52 AM by Heatwave »
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2002FXDWG3

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2018, 09:58:01 AM »

"Fortune ran a recent article saying that an added problem was Harleys just last too long and that is a problem."

 :zroflmao:   :ROFLOL:   :zroflmao:

Harley's last a long time, but it's not due to anything Harley does.  It has to do with what the customers and aftermarket do to constantly update and repair them, starting from very early in the ownership experience.  It's another trait of the Boomer generation that won't transfer to our current youngsters, based on my observations of how they treat their cars, phones, etc.

JMHO - Jerry

Exactly.  Any bike regularly ridden in the rain the chrome flakes off and all rubber/vinyl deteriorates.  They fall apart plenty fast (twin cam lifters anyone?).

On my '02, just to get it running right and reasonably reliable, it needed the following:
  • hybrid camplate kit (chain tensioners and oil pump upgrades)
  • larger cam
  • rework carb
  • upgraded ignition
  • mufflers
  • upgrade all leaking primary and shifter shaft seals (improved designs)

Then the optional upgrades (grips, tires, brakes, chrome jiblets, bags, etc) aka "Harley tax".

Of course all at my expense.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 10:00:00 AM by 2002FXDWG3 »
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Mark

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2018, 09:58:15 AM »

I agree with Heatwave.  A year ago there was talk of Kohlberg Kravis & Roberts buying HD, but nothing materialized.  I'm really surprised we haven't seen some dealerships close - especially in areas where the same owner has shops relatively close to each other.  For instance, in Jacksonville, FL, the same owner has three dealerships in the metro area.  I just don't see the sales to support this in the future.
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2002FXDWG3

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2018, 10:03:39 AM »

Not if you ride it.

Best laugh I've had in awhile :vrolijk_6:
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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2018, 10:37:36 AM »

Sounds like you’re making excuses and looking to blame others for HD’s failures of their own making. Trying to place blame on a President for a company’s lack of leadership and insight to their own market is no one’s fault but the executives that run the company.

If Harley decides to manufacture their motorcycles overseas and sell them to Americans, its certainly their right. But they will no longer be an American motorcycle from my perspective.

They have been focused on squeezing the most money they can out of their loyal customers while investing the least they can. The competition is delivering higher quality motorcycles with more technology, features and capabilities than the latest Harley’s.

Compare the features and technology of a 2019 BMW Grand America or Homda Goldwing to a 2019 CVO Limited. The BMW and Honda’s are more powerful with every feature on a CVO PLUS they include a backup gear, power adjustable windshield AND COST $15,000 LESS. That is unsustainable and has nothing to do with President Trump.

Harley sales will fall through the floor for 2019. The 2020 models will be make or break for the MoCo. Either they start producing motorcycles of higher quality and value with the 2020 models or I predict the CEO will be fired in mid-late 2020 and the company will become a serious take-over candidate. Mark my words.
Harley has been going down hill for a while, long before Trump took office.  They started cutting content while raising the price, lowering quality.  CVO's went from two person teams with lots of experience building them to regular assembly line bikes.    All 8 years before Trump.

Harley has had over seas plants for a while.  Yes they plan to open more.  Its because of unfair trade tariffs.  None of these bikes come to the USA.  They go to the country they are built in, and some neighbors.  No way can harley plan a plant and open it a year.  So the plant opening next year for the European market was in the works long before Trump.

I fully agree about BMW Tech, and Honda.  They will continue to hurt Harley because HD is way behind in Tech and performance.

An example, the 09 CVO Road Glide came with more stuff than the 2019.  It was also built by two experienced workers on a separate line.  The 2019 is on the regular line, comes with less stuff, and is 10K more dollars.   Paint was better quality in 09, I am not meaning design but actually the quality of the finish.  All stuff going down hill.
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Heatwave

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2018, 10:40:16 AM »

Harley has been going down hill for a while, long before Trump took office.  They started cutting content while raising the price, lowering quality.  CVO's went from two person teams with lots of experience building them to regular assembly line bikes.    All 8 years before Trump.

Harley has had over seas plants for a while.  Yes they plan to open more.  Its because of unfair trade tariffs.  None of these bikes come to the USA.  They go to the country they are built in, and some neighbors.  No way can harley plan a plant and open it a year.  So the plant opening next year for the European market was in the works long before Trump.

I fully agree about BMW Tech, and Honda.  They will continue to hurt Harley because HD is way behind in Tech and performance.

An example, the 09 CVO Road Glide came with more stuff than the 2019.  It was also built by two experienced workers on a separate line.  The 2019 is on the regular line, comes with less stuff, and is 10K more dollars.   Paint was better quality in 09, I am not meaning design but actually the quality of the finish.  All stuff going down hill.

I agree with everything stated except that a product made in one country will ONLY be sold to that country's market. I've been around long enough to "never say never". I guarantee that if a company can make a product in one country at a lower cost and sell it to the buyers in another country, it will most definitely happen in time.
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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2018, 01:59:00 PM »

My views on this......
There are many companies that make parts (read, most or all parts) in another country and "assemble" them here and state "Made in the USA" or "Assembled in the USA" A play on words that a lot of people miss without good research. If it's profitable it will be done regardless of honor, loyalty or pride. Look for the "made in China" stickers that are already on certain parts of our (supposedly) superior CVO's.

The handwriting is on the wall. The mother ship knows that we loyalists are almost gone (the once, core, Harley rider is getting old and our riding time is nearing an end) and the influence we once carried has all but vanished. The newer marketing, AND, bike lines is pretty aggressive for Harley. The marketing to the up and coming generation of riders (however many riders that may be) (no disrespect to those who don't fit this bill) is to riders that mother Harley, I'm sure knows, will not have a clue about all things Harley that we are all too familiar with. These people will not know to complain about, or dwell on, all these things that we have all been suffering through for years. Hell, these people don't even know what a telephone is. Not many will ride far enough to test warranties or longevity of wear parts.

It's my guess that mother Harley can't wait to get rid of us so that their biggest problems and complaints will be the sound system on an electric bicycle.
For any of us to think or believe that Harley will ever be better than they are right now, well, that would be naive. Added competition will be solely about sales numbers and adding more plastic parts to actually match the competitions lower build costs. Think about it, Harley is not going to be able to sell at such a higher cost than the "real" competition to this new breed of rider. How do we think they are going to get there? certainly not by upping the quality.

JMO
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Heatwave

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2018, 02:04:06 PM »

To use a label that states a product is "Made in the USA", it must meet very specific requirements or the manufacturer can be sued for deceptive Marketing. According to the Federal Government, any product with a "Made in the USA" label must meet this definition:

"A product that is ‘all or virtually all’ made in the United States will be one in which all significant parts and processing that go into the product are of U.S. origin and the product contains negligible foreign content."

https://www.nist.gov/standardsgov/compliance-faqs-made-usa
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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #31 on: December 25, 2018, 08:43:42 AM »

To use a label that states a product is "Made in the USA", it must meet very specific requirements or the manufacturer can be sued for deceptive Marketing. According to the Federal Government, any product with a "Made in the USA" label must meet this definition:

"A product that is ‘all or virtually all’ made in the United States will be one in which all significant parts and processing that go into the product are of U.S. origin and the product contains negligible foreign content."

https://www.nist.gov/standardsgov/compliance-faqs-made-usa

Yep.  And my Car and my Truck are both in the top 10 for American Content, F-150 and Corvette.  They break it down by model so Honda has a model that is more American than most American brand cars.  Ford has 3 in top 10 for 2018, Honda has 3 in top 10 for 2018, Chevy has two.

I guess I should have been more clear, at this time Harley has zero plans of importing bike to USA.  What they are building overseas, mostly is that which does not sell well here, the street.

Some day it could happen, I doubt I'll be riding by the time Harley imports to USA, and if I am then I guess I'll be on something else. 
« Last Edit: December 25, 2018, 08:47:53 AM by FLSTFI Dave »
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2019 FLTRXSE Red Pepper / Magnetic Gray
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charles05663

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2018, 01:13:30 PM »

To use a label that states a product is "Made in the USA", it must meet very specific requirements or the manufacturer can be sued for deceptive Marketing. According to the Federal Government, any product with a "Made in the USA" label must meet this definition:

"A product that is ‘all or virtually all’ made in the United States will be one in which all significant parts and processing that go into the product are of U.S. origin and the product contains negligible foreign content."

https://www.nist.gov/standardsgov/compliance-faqs-made-usa

The sad thing is the majority of the HD accessory crap (clothing, parts, etc.) is made in China.  When I bought my first Harley I was shocked to see the majority of their accessories were imported from China.  So I looked to third party suppliers.  I don't mind paying more for American made items if I can find them.  Third party items are often of superior quality to HD parts anyway.

So, as with the imported parts, HD will continue to increase the imported content of their bikes.  At the rate they are going, they will be able to proudly state "The item was assembled in the USA!"

 :oops: :nixweiss:
« Last Edit: December 25, 2018, 01:15:33 PM by charles05663 »
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And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.
Matthew 4:19

http://www.thefishermenministry.net/

Q:  What is the USA's number one export to China?
A:  Trash!  They loved our high quality trash. (not any longer).

      Stolen technology and Jobs!

Boatman

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #33 on: December 25, 2018, 01:53:32 PM »

 No more new Harley’s for me.  Tired of losing my butt on a new one and tired of fixing their mistakes on my dollar.  CVO’s are way over priced for what we get and worth 1/2 in 4 years.  If I buy another harley it will be a used garage queen low mileage model that someone else lost their butt on.  I will never use a harley part when I can buy a better aftermarket part.  Still enjoy riding the 2014.  Will keep as long as I ride.   :soapbox:
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Heatwave

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scottt

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #36 on: December 25, 2018, 06:02:27 PM »

That’s a very troubling and scary report for Harley!
It's scary for the entire industry, Harley just has itself in a unique pickle.

Given the comments regarding cost cutting, sure hope Harley doesn't think they can cost cut themselves back into prosperity. It's going to take investment into quality along with expensive R&D.

They need to build bikes that appeal to buyers based on being a truly competitive product, a quality product and then because it's a Harley. In that order.

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk

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2002FXDWG3

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #37 on: December 25, 2018, 09:46:43 PM »

The corporate world is all about year over year growth and meeting key numbers to inflate the stock price.

At some point Harley needs to concede this might not be how things are going to play out.  They might need to shrink production and get back to making better bikes with lower margin to survive.

They still have a strong brand and dealer network to work with, but they need big changes from the top down.
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Threephase

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #38 on: December 25, 2018, 09:49:06 PM »

But they do plan on selling the two company jets. That will make everything better.
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Mark

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #39 on: December 26, 2018, 05:36:06 PM »

But they do plan on selling the two company jets. That will make everything better.

If a multi-billion dollar company is selling a jet to recoup $10 mil, wouldn't that would be like me being in financial distress and finding a $10 bill?  I imagine ditching the corporate jet has more to do with optics for the stock holders and the board of directors.
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