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Author Topic: Current HD Sales  (Read 2524 times)

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Heatwave

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2018, 01:34:42 PM »

It could be a reflection of the economy and consumer confidence. How are other bike makers doing? Are sales steady or rising for Honda, Kawasaki, and Indian?

Quote from Polaris (Indian) 3rd Qtr Financial report for North America "Indian Motorcycle retail sales increased low-single digits, in spite of an overall weak N.A. motorcycle market."

According to Honda's 3rd Qtr 2018 Financial report, their North America Honda Motorcycle Unit sales were up 7%.

Kawasaki motorcycle unit sales (global, they do not breakdown motorcycle sales by region) are up 7.4% according to their latest 2018 financial report.
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Wunderkind

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2018, 02:06:11 PM »

Situation over here:

LOTS of guys over here got into their dreams of motoring in the ´90s and beginning (100th Anni) 2K

Fact: The market for used HD is actually CROWDED in Germany! plus all the ´16 ´17 ´18 that tried to get sold by individuals....

Gentlemen.... I had a pretty wealthy friend that died 2 years ago with beautiful 70 years, opening his business to his last day always around 6 am!!!!

He said to me one time: mike, none of my rich customers could explain to me, for what ´good the second Million is...... or number five or whatever. He was one of the biggest Salespersons in Germany for Cuban Cigars. He knows the WhoisWho of Germany...

Actually I have two V2 dream bikes of mine, with no problems on the road at all (Never say never again!!) 95cui, 110 cui....

Please give me a reason to swap or to get an additional bike?? I mean the bikes after Mount Rushmore.... More HP?? No your kiddin`..... The electronic gadgets?? Paintjob??

Next bike?? Would love to built a Knuckle in a ´58 or ´59 dropped frame.

Next Million??? Far away......  :)
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scottt

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2018, 10:08:36 PM »

Quote from Polaris (Indian) 3rd Qtr Financial report for North America "Indian Motorcycle retail sales increased low-single digits, in spite of an overall weak N.A. motorcycle market."

According to Honda's 3rd Qtr 2018 Financial report, their North America Honda Motorcycle Unit sales were up 7%.

Kawasaki motorcycle unit sales (global, they do not breakdown motorcycle sales by region) are up 7.4% according to their latest 2018 financial report.
BMW motorcycle sales are also doing relatively well.

Harley has never faced so much competition. The new Honda Goldwing, Yamaha Venture, Indian, BMW B and Grand American. Many of these competitors are offering big discounts on bikes that beat Harley performance, handling, brakes, features and many with great styling. It's a new day.

Harley has it's self in a corner, trying to build bikes that maintain a look, sound and feel from the past ( that I like ) but don't really compete with the competition. Today's buyer is demanding more than ever. They want comfort, performance right off the showroom floor, durability, handling, features, on and on.

Hopefully Harley will take some chances with there touring line. Build a bike that competes on all levels, even if that means a different power plant.

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk

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JCZ

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2018, 12:16:17 AM »

Doesn't matter to me, I got a 2019 should last me 10 years.

Not if you ride it.   :nixweiss:
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Trapperdog

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2018, 12:29:19 AM »

Not if you ride it.   :nixweiss:
That there is funny. True, but funny
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DOCGSS

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2018, 08:11:05 AM »

The worldwide motorcycle market is bleak, especially in large displacement bikes. Some companies with low volume like Triumph and Polaris are experiencing some increases but a 10% increase on 58,000 units is tiny when compared to Harley sales. No one is close to Honda in world wide sales. All market foresters have a negative view of the motorcycle segment as millennials are just not interested in motorcycles much less cars.

That being said Trump is at war with HD, for reacting to the marketplace and Trumps own disruptions,  crippling not just farmers and but other farming and manufacturing segments. I have never heard of an American President attacking an American company. HD Thailand manufacturing is only for European sales and Trump is talking about taxing HD imports! Polaris has long been building units outside of the US, Trump just never bothers to find out real facts.

Fortune ran a recent article saying that an added problem was Harleys just last too long and that is a problem.

This is a real economic challenge for HD and I for one hope they survive and win.
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grc

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2018, 08:32:54 AM »

"Fortune ran a recent article saying that an added problem was Harleys just last too long and that is a problem."

 :zroflmao:   :ROFLOL:   :zroflmao:

Harley's last a long time, but it's not due to anything Harley does.  It has to do with what the customers and aftermarket do to constantly update and repair them, starting from very early in the ownership experience.  It's another trait of the Boomer generation that won't transfer to our current youngsters, based on my observations of how they treat their cars, phones, etc.

JMHO - Jerry
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lyn.husen

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2018, 08:55:08 AM »

"Fortune ran a recent article saying that an added problem was Harleys just last too long and that is a problem."

 :zroflmao:   :ROFLOL:   :zroflmao:

Harley's last a long time, but it's not due to anything Harley does.  It has to do with what the customers and aftermarket do to constantly update and repair them, starting from very early in the ownership experience.  It's another trait of the Boomer generation that won't transfer to our current youngsters, based on my observations of how they treat their cars, phones, etc.

JMHO - Jerry
As far as the Boomer generation goes we were taught Pride in Ownership. Today’s kids think everything is disposable or they need the latest & greatest.


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Heatwave

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2018, 09:34:15 AM »

The worldwide motorcycle market is bleak, especially in large displacement bikes. Some companies with low volume like Triumph and Polaris are experiencing some increases but a 10% increase on 58,000 units is tiny when compared to Harley sales. No one is close to Honda in world wide sales. All market foresters have a negative view of the motorcycle segment as millennials are just not interested in motorcycles much less cars.

That being said Trump is at war with HD, for reacting to the marketplace and Trumps own disruptions,  crippling not just farmers and but other farming and manufacturing segments. I have never heard of an American President attacking an American company. HD Thailand manufacturing is only for European sales and Trump is talking about taxing HD imports! Polaris has long been building units outside of the US, Trump just never bothers to find out real facts.

Fortune ran a recent article saying that an added problem was Harleys just last too long and that is a problem.

This is a real economic challenge for HD and I for one hope they survive and win.

Sounds like you’re making excuses and looking to blame others for HD’s failures of their own making. Trying to place blame on a President for a company’s lack of leadership and insight to their own market is no one’s fault but the executives that run the company.

If Harley decides to manufacture their motorcycles overseas and sell them to Americans, its certainly their right. But they will no longer be an American motorcycle from my perspective.

They have been focused on squeezing the most money they can out of their loyal customers while investing the least they can. The competition is delivering higher quality motorcycles with more technology, features and capabilities than the latest Harley’s.

Compare the features and technology of a 2019 BMW Grand America or Homda Goldwing to a 2019 CVO Limited. The BMW and Honda’s are more powerful with every feature on a CVO PLUS they include a backup gear, power adjustable windshield AND COST $15,000 LESS. That is unsustainable and has nothing to do with President Trump.

Harley sales will fall through the floor for 2019. The 2020 models will be make or break for the MoCo. Either they start producing motorcycles of higher quality and value with the 2020 models or I predict the CEO will be fired in mid-late 2020 and the company will become a serious take-over candidate. Mark my words.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 10:12:52 AM by Heatwave »
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2002FXDWG3

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2018, 09:58:01 AM »

"Fortune ran a recent article saying that an added problem was Harleys just last too long and that is a problem."

 :zroflmao:   :ROFLOL:   :zroflmao:

Harley's last a long time, but it's not due to anything Harley does.  It has to do with what the customers and aftermarket do to constantly update and repair them, starting from very early in the ownership experience.  It's another trait of the Boomer generation that won't transfer to our current youngsters, based on my observations of how they treat their cars, phones, etc.

JMHO - Jerry

Exactly.  Any bike regularly ridden in the rain the chrome flakes off and all rubber/vinyl deteriorates.  They fall apart plenty fast (twin cam lifters anyone?).

On my '02, just to get it running right and reasonably reliable, it needed the following:
  • hybrid camplate kit (chain tensioners and oil pump upgrades)
  • larger cam
  • rework carb
  • upgraded ignition
  • mufflers
  • upgrade all leaking primary and shifter shaft seals (improved designs)

Then the optional upgrades (grips, tires, brakes, chrome jiblets, bags, etc) aka "Harley tax".

Of course all at my expense.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 10:00:00 AM by 2002FXDWG3 »
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Mark

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2018, 09:58:15 AM »

I agree with Heatwave.  A year ago there was talk of Kohlberg Kravis & Roberts buying HD, but nothing materialized.  I'm really surprised we haven't seen some dealerships close - especially in areas where the same owner has shops relatively close to each other.  For instance, in Jacksonville, FL, the same owner has three dealerships in the metro area.  I just don't see the sales to support this in the future.
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2002FXDWG3

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2018, 10:03:39 AM »

Not if you ride it.

Best laugh I've had in awhile :vrolijk_6:
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FLSTFI Dave

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2018, 10:37:36 AM »

Sounds like you’re making excuses and looking to blame others for HD’s failures of their own making. Trying to place blame on a President for a company’s lack of leadership and insight to their own market is no one’s fault but the executives that run the company.

If Harley decides to manufacture their motorcycles overseas and sell them to Americans, its certainly their right. But they will no longer be an American motorcycle from my perspective.

They have been focused on squeezing the most money they can out of their loyal customers while investing the least they can. The competition is delivering higher quality motorcycles with more technology, features and capabilities than the latest Harley’s.

Compare the features and technology of a 2019 BMW Grand America or Homda Goldwing to a 2019 CVO Limited. The BMW and Honda’s are more powerful with every feature on a CVO PLUS they include a backup gear, power adjustable windshield AND COST $15,000 LESS. That is unsustainable and has nothing to do with President Trump.

Harley sales will fall through the floor for 2019. The 2020 models will be make or break for the MoCo. Either they start producing motorcycles of higher quality and value with the 2020 models or I predict the CEO will be fired in mid-late 2020 and the company will become a serious take-over candidate. Mark my words.
Harley has been going down hill for a while, long before Trump took office.  They started cutting content while raising the price, lowering quality.  CVO's went from two person teams with lots of experience building them to regular assembly line bikes.    All 8 years before Trump.

Harley has had over seas plants for a while.  Yes they plan to open more.  Its because of unfair trade tariffs.  None of these bikes come to the USA.  They go to the country they are built in, and some neighbors.  No way can harley plan a plant and open it a year.  So the plant opening next year for the European market was in the works long before Trump.

I fully agree about BMW Tech, and Honda.  They will continue to hurt Harley because HD is way behind in Tech and performance.

An example, the 09 CVO Road Glide came with more stuff than the 2019.  It was also built by two experienced workers on a separate line.  The 2019 is on the regular line, comes with less stuff, and is 10K more dollars.   Paint was better quality in 09, I am not meaning design but actually the quality of the finish.  All stuff going down hill.
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Heatwave

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2018, 10:40:16 AM »

Harley has been going down hill for a while, long before Trump took office.  They started cutting content while raising the price, lowering quality.  CVO's went from two person teams with lots of experience building them to regular assembly line bikes.    All 8 years before Trump.

Harley has had over seas plants for a while.  Yes they plan to open more.  Its because of unfair trade tariffs.  None of these bikes come to the USA.  They go to the country they are built in, and some neighbors.  No way can harley plan a plant and open it a year.  So the plant opening next year for the European market was in the works long before Trump.

I fully agree about BMW Tech, and Honda.  They will continue to hurt Harley because HD is way behind in Tech and performance.

An example, the 09 CVO Road Glide came with more stuff than the 2019.  It was also built by two experienced workers on a separate line.  The 2019 is on the regular line, comes with less stuff, and is 10K more dollars.   Paint was better quality in 09, I am not meaning design but actually the quality of the finish.  All stuff going down hill.

I agree with everything stated except that a product made in one country will ONLY be sold to that country's market. I've been around long enough to "never say never". I guarantee that if a company can make a product in one country at a lower cost and sell it to the buyers in another country, it will most definitely happen in time.
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Mr. Warlock

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Re: Current HD Sales
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2018, 01:59:00 PM »

My views on this......
There are many companies that make parts (read, most or all parts) in another country and "assemble" them here and state "Made in the USA" or "Assembled in the USA" A play on words that a lot of people miss without good research. If it's profitable it will be done regardless of honor, loyalty or pride. Look for the "made in China" stickers that are already on certain parts of our (supposedly) superior CVO's.

The handwriting is on the wall. The mother ship knows that we loyalists are almost gone (the once, core, Harley rider is getting old and our riding time is nearing an end) and the influence we once carried has all but vanished. The newer marketing, AND, bike lines is pretty aggressive for Harley. The marketing to the up and coming generation of riders (however many riders that may be) (no disrespect to those who don't fit this bill) is to riders that mother Harley, I'm sure knows, will not have a clue about all things Harley that we are all too familiar with. These people will not know to complain about, or dwell on, all these things that we have all been suffering through for years. Hell, these people don't even know what a telephone is. Not many will ride far enough to test warranties or longevity of wear parts.

It's my guess that mother Harley can't wait to get rid of us so that their biggest problems and complaints will be the sound system on an electric bicycle.
For any of us to think or believe that Harley will ever be better than they are right now, well, that would be naive. Added competition will be solely about sales numbers and adding more plastic parts to actually match the competitions lower build costs. Think about it, Harley is not going to be able to sell at such a higher cost than the "real" competition to this new breed of rider. How do we think they are going to get there? certainly not by upping the quality.

JMO
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