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[scottt]

My Bike runs, handles and brakes great!  125 lbs ft of torque from a 4 valve 2 cyl engine is nothing to scoff at.  You should test ride one before you say that I obviously don't appreciate performance!     From what I can see, the BMW is only rated at 129 Lbs Ft of torque with all of those extra cylinders flying about?   Torque is where it's at.   Ask the 1970 Buick Gran Sport 455, only 350 bhp but 510 lb ft of torque.  Fastest production muscle car in 1970 and one of the heaviest.

And Brother let me tell you,  if you didn't have a little of that same cantankerous mojo left in your bones, then you would be posting on a Honda Gold Wing forum and not a Custom Vehicle Operations Harley Davidson Site.

I can assure you the performance difference in the two bikes is far greater than you illustrated. Had a guy with a pumped up Dyna keep screwing with me. Finally i got on it a little, literally blew him away.

The K1600's is only 1620cc, in a extremely well engineered straight 6cyl vs a much bigger twin.

The horsepower difference is dramatic without loosing low end torque.

You would be surprised at how many Harley owners really like the new B or bagger and GA grand America. K1600's designed for the American market here in Los Angeles by American Rolland Sands. My local BMW dealer has a 19 CVO Limited with roughly 500 miles. Traded in on a new K1600 B GA.

Seriously now; I've owned CVO's and still like the style. Not knocking them at all. As they say, a different kettle of fish. Designed with different objectives and target markets. Doesn't make one better than the other, just built for different  buyers.

I'm happy seeing riders ride. What they choose is there choice, good for them.

Enjoy that beautiful CVO, just don't race a K1600

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk

[SDCVO]

I have both the 19 BMW Bagger (Grand America) and 19 CVO Roadglide. Both are amazing bikes with different strengths. The new GTS system IMO is amazing and is a pleasure to ride with. All the electronics on the BMW as far as comparing with the GTS are horrible and very outdated. On the other hand BMW puts all their technology into the riding systems that many of described ad nausiem on this forum. I did have the BMW manipulated tuned with speed limiter eliminated and horsepower increased by another 14 (came with 160 at the crank) so definitely a E ticket. I have 6600 miles on the Harley (got middle of Nov) and 6200 on BMW (got middle of Oct) so obviously I tend to ride Harley just a bit more especially considering I took the BMW on a 2100 mile trip with JC (needed the power to keep up with him ..).
I love both of them and feel very fortunate to have them.

[SDCVO]

I have both the 19 BMW Bagger (Grand America) and 19 CVO Roadglide. Both are amazing bikes with different strengths. The new GTS system IMO is amazing and is a pleasure to ride with. All the electronics on the BMW as far as comparing with the GTS are horrible and very outdated. On the other hand BMW puts all their technology into the riding systems that many of described ad nausiem on this forum. I did have the BMW manipulated tuned with speed limiter eliminated and horsepower increased by another 14 (came with 160 at the crank) so definitely a E ticket. I have 6600 miles on the Harley (got middle of Nov) and 6200 on BMW (got middle of Oct) so obviously I tend to ride Harley just a bit more especially considering I took the BMW on a 2100 mile trip with JC (needed the power to keep up with him ..).
I love both of them and feel very fortunate to have them.

and just to explain why I have both so all dont think I am that much of a brat. Got into a battle with Harley on my 17 CVO Streetglide that kept sumping  and thought it would end up being a year or 2 long legal battle as we had both dug our heels in the sand and I was done with the MoCo. JC talked me into trying the BMW Bagger and I bought it and then the MoCo gave in (last minute before I turned it over to a lawyer) and I ended up with both.
Still trying to convince my wife that story is true but I wouldn't tell a fib here...

[scottt]

and just to explain why I have both so all dont think I am that much of a brat. Got into a battle with Harley on my 17 CVO Streetglide that kept sumping  and thought it would end up being a year or 2 long legal battle as we had both dug our heels in the sand and I was done with the MoCo. JC talked me into trying the BMW Bagger and I bought it and then the MoCo gave in (last minute before I turned it over to a lawyer) and I ended up with both.
Still trying to convince my wife that story is true but I wouldn't tell a fib here...

Your a blessed man, if money was no object id own both.

Your point about the two bikes being so different is right on. Both really nice but built for different purposes and generally buyer.

Enjoy those rides

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk

[FLSTFI Dave]

My Bike runs, handles and brakes great!  125 lbs ft of torque from a 4 valve 2 cyl engine is nothing to scoff at.  You should test ride one before you say that I obviously don't appreciate performance!     From what I can see, the BMW is only rated at 129 Lbs Ft of torque with all of those extra cylinders flying about?   Torque is where it's at.   Ask the 1970 Buick Gran Sport 455, only 350 bhp but 510 lb ft of torque.  Fastest production muscle car in 1970 and one of the heaviest.

And Brother let me tell you,  if you didn't have a little of that same cantankerous mojo left in your bones, then you would be posting on a Honda Gold Wing forum and not a Custom Vehicle Operations Harley Davidson Site.

Bike runs good, not great.  Many are having issues with Sumping or oil transfer.  But even with zero problems, the bike only runs good.  As for suspension, it is fair at best, far from great.  It handles good, not great.  Brakes are great, when the rotors don't warp in less than 5000 miles.

I love my CVO Road Glide.  Obviously that is what I chose to buy, for more money than the BMW.  That said, the BMW handles way better than the Harley.  Like no comparison, a curve I can take at 80mph on the BMW At 55mph I would be dragging hard parts on the Harley.  The suspension is much better on the BMW.  The BMW will out accelerate the harley by a long shot, it will also have a lot faster top end.

My 13 CVO King is 140 Torque at the rear tire, not the 125 at the crank the 2019 CVO is.  Its also 138.5 HP at the rear tire.  It will beat my 19 CVO in a drag race, in top speed and in handling as it has Ohlin rear suspension and legends front.  It will corner faster too as the rear shock are an inch longer on the King, so more lean angle.    Even with all the work the BMW will still out run it in the corners.

[grandpadoc]

Never understood why Indian had so many wet motors, but not on the bagger. I've been waiting for Harley to have a true wet motor on a bagger for a long time now, but I'll be too old by then. About 20 years ago I told Willie G I want a bike I can ride and eat Wings all day. He came up with the SERG which I love to this day, but I never lost my appetite for Wings. He just kept adding cc's to combat the emission losses and we now have a engine that runs so lean and hot that adding more cc's won't matter anymore. The days of the single crankpin, air cooled farm engine are over.
 I'm happy to have ridden in that era where a good carburetor, a set of blue streak points and a couple extra quarts of oil got you cross country and back without much drama. In that era the MOCO has just been messing with quick fixes that Porsche and Volkswagen had to abandon years ago, and its time to move on !

doc 
 

[scottt]

Bike runs good, not great.  Many are having issues with Sumping or oil transfer.  But even with zero problems, the bike only runs good.  As for suspension, it is fair at best, far from great.  It handles good, not great.  Brakes are great, when the rotors don't warp in less than 5000 miles.

I love my CVO Road Glide.  Obviously that is what I chose to buy, for more money than the BMW.  That said, the BMW handles way better than the Harley.  Like no comparison, a curve I can take at 80mph on the BMW At 55mph I would be dragging hard parts on the Harley.  The suspension is much better on the BMW.  The BMW will out accelerate the harley by a long shot, it will also have a lot faster top end.

My 13 CVO King is 140 Torque at the rear tire, not the 125 at the crank the 2019 CVO is.  Its also 138.5 HP at the rear tire.  It will beat my 19 CVO in a drag race, in top speed and in handling as it has Ohlin rear suspension and legends front.  It will corner faster too as the rear shock are an inch longer on the King, so more lean angle.    Even with all the work the BMW will still out run it in the corners.

Considering the performance, handling and ride difference you'll find the features and price comparison even more stark.

The BMW K1600 B or bagger is priced close to the HD road glide yet comes with more features than a CVO, less chrome.

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[mark]

Never understood why Indian had so many wet motors, but not on the bagger. I've been waiting for Harley to have a true wet motor on a bagger for a long time now, but I'll be too old by then. About 20 years ago I told Willie G I want a bike I can ride and eat Wings all day. He came up with the SERG which I love to this day, but I never lost my appetite for Wings. He just kept adding cc's to combat the emission losses and we now have a engine that runs so lean and hot that adding more cc's won't matter anymore. The days of the single crankpin, air cooled farm engine are over.
 I'm happy to have ridden in that era where a good carburetor, a set of blue streak points and a couple extra quarts of oil got you cross country and back without much drama. In that era the MOCO has just been messing with quick fixes that Porsche and Volkswagen had to abandon years ago, and its time to move on !

doc

Ditto. IM will be introducing their wet touring motor in 2020.  HD should be paying attention...not following...EPA and the technology generation will retire the lawn mower engine.

[scottt]

Ditto. IM will be introducing their wet touring motor in 2020.  HD should be paying attention...not following...EPA and the technology generation will retire the lawn mower engine.

Your absolutely correct!

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[Spiked Olive]

Lady traded 2018 Indian on 2019 Harley Limited.

I was at my local dealership Sunday afternoon. They have used bikes lined up on the left as you walk in. The second bike was an Indian that looked like new. It was a 2018 with fairing and saddle bags in black with very low miles. I'm like why is this here, I keep hearing everyone is trading their HD's for Indians!

The salesperson said a lady fell in love with the Indian without shopping around and did an impulse buy. She then wanted to add a tour pack and other options and the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ kept adding up out of sight.

She comes to the HD dealership and the Limited met all her needs, did a test ride and the rest is history.

I looked it over pretty good and the ONLY thing I liked was the adjustable windshield not that it really matters at this point. The only thing worse than looking at a picture of an Indian is looking at one in person. Just not for me.

Carry on.

[mark]

Lady traded 2018 Indian on 2019 Harley Limited.

I was at my local dealership Sunday afternoon. They have used bikes lined up on the left as you walk in. The second bike was an Indian that looked like new. It was a 2018 with fairing and saddle bags in black with very low miles. I'm like why is this here, I keep hearing everyone is trading their HD's for Indians!

The salesperson said a lady fell in love with the Indian without shopping around and did an impulse buy. She then wanted to add a tour pack and other options and the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ kept adding up out of sight.

She comes to the HD dealership and the Limited met all her needs, did a test ride and the rest is history.

I looked it over pretty good and the ONLY thing I liked was the adjustable windshield not that it really matters at this point. The only thing worse than looking at a picture of an Indian is looking at one in person. Just not for me.

Carry on.

I'd probably ride one first.  But don't worry, no reports of Indians sumping, and as a bonus, there's no reason to drill a hole in the primary to keep the tranny fluid where it's supposed to be.

[dayne66]

[fastfreddy]

  polarass will be reintroducing them soon.... so them Indian lovin fools can have a matching lawn mower , love it

[mark]

Not to be outdone, HD introduces the CVO lawn tractor.  Price is $4k above MSRP.  Must shut off every 1/2 hr due to sumping and tranny oil transfer.   The Live Wire Lawn Tractor is scheduled to be released in 2020 as soon as the MoCo can figure out how to not run over the recharging cord.

[Spiked Olive]

I'd probably ride one first.  But don't worry, no reports of Indians sumping, and as a bonus, there's no reason to drill a hole in the primary to keep the tranny fluid where it's supposed to be.

While you are correct don't think for a minute they are perfect either. Two in our Rolling Thunder chapter and to hear them talk I'll stay with HD.

111 Engine Failure: https://www.indianmotorcycles.net/threads/thunderstroke-111-failure.261252/

https://www.indianmotorcycles.net/threads/first-round-of-problems-with-the-chief-your-experiences.20655/

Hey I just noticed your location. You are a luck guy. We took a 9 day ride over Christmas and New Years to Key West from NC. Out first night was in St. Simons Island. Man we loved it! Stayed at Ocean Inn & Suites at the Light House and had dinner at The Half Shell. We look forward to making another trip down there.

Sorry to get off topic.