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Author Topic: both Exhaust Valve guides busted!! >>  (Read 1130 times)

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ghost183

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both Exhaust Valve guides busted!! >>
« on: June 03, 2019, 04:55:32 PM »


im at a loss here, the motor has 3200 miles on the stage 4  which included a mild porting, you can obviously see the valve guides have been busted since the install cause it has the same amount of carbon buildup due to the tune being out of whack, but what would cause this? bad install job? bad manhandling? no way it came back from porting with busted valve guides!!!!!

im just glad the exhaust valve guides broke and not the intake. pistons are spotless, but BOTH exhaust  guides??

i came across this while looking at the exhaust flange gasket since i had the pipes off for something unrelated.. saw the damage clear as day from the exhaust hole

the only way i see this happenning is piston/valve contact, but when? valves are straight and seating, obviously i have the heads on the bench now and waiting for the new parts...
[/size]
[/size]on the note.. any suggestions on guide installation? im old school, heat the head to 400+, freeze the guide overnight, bath guide in oil and tap in.. any other suggestions?
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ghost183

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Re: both Exhaust Valve guides busted!! >>
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2019, 04:59:09 PM »

other head
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FXSTSSE2 Anniversary #509

Stage 4 kit, Super Tuned, 860 rpm idle, Woods 777'S
Fueling OE + oil pump (to compensate for lower idle)
Vulcan 4.5* Rake, Shotgun Air Ride
Cycle Worx side mount plate
Big Radius 2-2 with SmartPartz baffles
Detach Sissy & Detach 18" Windshield

ghost183

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Re: both Exhaust Valve guides busted!! >>
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2019, 05:01:48 PM »

pistons
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FXSTSSE2 Anniversary #509

Stage 4 kit, Super Tuned, 860 rpm idle, Woods 777'S
Fueling OE + oil pump (to compensate for lower idle)
Vulcan 4.5* Rake, Shotgun Air Ride
Cycle Worx side mount plate
Big Radius 2-2 with SmartPartz baffles
Detach Sissy & Detach 18" Windshield

johnsachs

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Re: both Exhaust Valve guides busted!! >>
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2019, 05:32:40 PM »

Hard to tell.
Shiny line on the back of the valve pocket? Did you size the id of the guides after install?
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Phreakyz

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Re: both Exhaust Valve guides busted!! >>
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2019, 06:30:30 PM »

Too lean, detonation and heat? :nixweiss:
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ghost183

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Re: both Exhaust Valve guides busted!! >>
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2019, 07:28:52 PM »

Hard to tell.
Shiny line on the back of the valve pocket? Did you size the id of the guides after install?


Hey john.. 
   thanks for chiming in, the heads came back complete after the porting, and were installed by the dealer during the stage 3 kit install, i never looked in there to see if they were new.. who would??? everything else was new,, anyway..


after googling the only feasable explanation is they were damaged during install, cracked or fractured somehow, and seperated during its initial few heat cycles


im considering myself lucky considering it couldve been the intake and this couldve cost me a new top end


Phreakyz:


thanks for your input too brother.. but not a chance.. the motor has been running rich ever since the install, but mostly due to inproper map, the bikes needs to go to a dyno that i never got around to doing.. and has been burning 100 octane since cause its readily available to me 
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FXSTSSE2 Anniversary #509

Stage 4 kit, Super Tuned, 860 rpm idle, Woods 777'S
Fueling OE + oil pump (to compensate for lower idle)
Vulcan 4.5* Rake, Shotgun Air Ride
Cycle Worx side mount plate
Big Radius 2-2 with SmartPartz baffles
Detach Sissy & Detach 18" Windshield

prodrag1320

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Re: both Exhaust Valve guides busted!! >>
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2019, 07:11:31 AM »

9de be pulling the heads off & checking the valves.only way ive ever seen guides crack is with bent valves,either bent on intall (not letting lifters bleed down) or not enough piston to valve clearance or valve to valve clearance.as far as guide replacement,if your planning on doing it yourself,remember that guides must be sized (honing is the preferred method) and seats must be cut
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 07:14:27 AM by prodrag1320 »
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ltank

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Re: both Exhaust Valve guides busted!! >>
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2019, 01:43:43 PM »

I recently had a Beehive spring fail causing a bent valve hitting the piston and the bent valve broke the guide. Make sure the head is not cracked. Heat head to 400 degrees the press out the bad guide. Then inspect the hole. Check head bore from valve guide is straight. The new guide need to be .002 to
003 interference fit. Heat head to 400 and press in new guide to correct height. The new guide will most likely be in a different position. The old valve seat will need to be cut and new surface prepared.
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ltank

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Re: both Exhaust Valve guides busted!! >>
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2019, 01:48:08 PM »

What puzzles me is that both exhaust valves broke.
Did the valves hit each other? I missed something  somewhere.
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trippy

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Re: both Exhaust Valve guides busted!! >>
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2019, 03:01:29 PM »

100% agree with this

"Too lean, detonation and heat!"

High Compression, high heat, detonation and carbonation of the exhaust guides, causes them to crumble!!

You can get special valve guides and valves to stop that.

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prodrag1320

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Re: both Exhaust Valve guides busted!! >>
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2019, 07:31:37 AM »

100% agree with this

"Too lean, detonation and heat!"

High Compression, high heat, detonation and carbonation of the exhaust guides, causes them to crumble!!

You can get special valve guides and valves to stop that.


has nothing to do with heat,detionation or being too lean.

HD Street Performance

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Re: both Exhaust Valve guides busted!! >>
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2019, 10:44:13 AM »

A little shy giving internet diagnosis any longer. Have to see all the parts to be sure what happened plus get the full story with an interview of the owner. The first head picture has a broken head guide boss besides needing a new guide and valve (likely).
The reason for the problem would be revealed with a close look and measurements.
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MCE

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Re: both Exhaust Valve guides busted!! >>
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2019, 07:35:27 PM »

When you replace the guides, a valve job will be needed (on the EX side anyway). You also need to check
clearances on valve to valve as well as valve to piston. Chances are the EX valves are bent as well.

2 cents.
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MCE

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Re: both Exhaust Valve guides busted!! >>
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2019, 03:37:55 PM »

Too lean, detonation and heat? :nixweiss:

The piston is black, (It's likely rich). Piston should look light-medium brown. Most likely, the EX
valves hit the pistons.

You're lucky it wasn't the intake guides. That would have trashed your cylinders, combustion
chambers and pistons.

I would also check the intake valves, make sure they're not bent too.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 03:47:39 PM by MCE Performance »
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MCE

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Re: both Exhaust Valve guides busted!! >>
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2019, 03:50:09 PM »

Are they stock size valves? If they're oversize, the reliefs in the piston may not be big enough.
You need a Trock fixture to check V-V clearances at overlap TDC.
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