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[Stewie_FL]

Hello all,

Just picked up a set of slip-ons at Daytona bike week. Didn’t go with either of my first two choices. Got a set of color matched Khrome Works 4.5 HP-Plus slip-ons. Had to give up my first born to get them but they look nice. Could have went the Fullsac way for a lot less money, but, I didn’t. Sorry Fullsac. Now I am afraid to put them on for two reasons. 1) Loss of warranty and, 2) Risk of reproductive harm. (Don’t take me seriously on this one. Will explain later) So I went and read the Consent decree with the EPA and the factory warranty. This is what I found.

Consent Decree:

Denial of Warranty.

“a. Defendants shall deny all warranty claims for functional defects of powertrain components for any Harley-Davidson vehicle (Model Year 2017 or later) registered in the United States, if any Defendants have any information to show that such vehicle was tuned using a Tuning Product that was not covered by a California ARB Executive Order or otherwise approved by EPA.”

 “b. Defendants shall instruct Harley-Davidson dealers to deny such warranty claims where any Defendant or any Harley-Davidson dealer has any such information.”

“c. No later than December 31, 2016, Defendants shall ensure that their warranty policies and product literature state that Defendants will deny warranty claims for functional defects of powertrain components for any Harley-Davidson vehicle, Model Year 2017 or later, that was tuned using a Tuning Product that was not covered by a California ARB Executive Order, or otherwise approved by EPA.”

“A stipulated penalty of $2000 shall apply for the failure to comply with the requirements set forth in Paragraph 14, concerning denial of warranty.”

Annual Emissions Testing.

“Beginning with Model Year 2018, Defendants shall conduct annual tailpipe emissions tests, in the first quarter of each calendar year, on a motorcycle modified with a Harley-Davidson certified kit (aftermarket parts and tuner) that is covered by the California ARB Executive Order. The tested motorcycles must be equipped with the certified kit that reflects the largest number of sales for the prior calendar year, tuned to reflect the "worst case tailpipe emissions levels" for such kit (i.e., the ECU calibrations that will result in the highest level of tailpipe emissions from the modified motorcycle). The annual tailpipe emission testing shall duplicate the testing conducted for the California ARB, but without any mileage accumulation beyond that required to run the actual test itself.”

Harley Warranty:

The limited warranty does not cover:

“Defects or damage to the motorcycle caused by alterations outside of Harley-Davidson’s factory specifications or caused by alterations or use of parts or accessories not approved for the make and model year of your motorcycle.”

“Damage caused by installation or use of non-Harley-Davidson components, even those installed by an authorized Harley-Davidson dealership, that cause a Harley-Davidson part to fail.”

So yes, according to this, just putting on slip-ons can void your powertrain warranty if they can figure out some way to claim your slip-ons caused engine failure of some sort or they have altered your AFR when and if they test your bikes emissions.

My question is, why the F**K when I live across the country, is my bike governed by rules set forth by the “California” ARB? I don’t live in the land of fruits and nuts. So why is the government forcing me to comply with California regulations? Maybe there is a class action law suite here. Also, I have a little sticker on my slip-ons that state that according to “California P65, my mufflers may cause reproductive harm. Give me a F**King break. I think the heat coming of my engine and baking my nuts is more of a concern for reproductive harm than my slip-ons. When is California going to crack off and fall into the ocean and stop all this nonsense?


Lets get together and sue the government for trying to make the entire country conform to rules that California has deemed appropriate .

Any thoughts?

[grc]

Harley only builds one domestic version of their bikes, and the emissions standard they are certified to applies to all 50 states.  The only thing unique to California is their requirement for an evaporative emissions system (carbon canister), and the bikes they sell to California dealers have an added charge for that system.  As to why the consent decree mentions CARB, I've always assumed the charges against Harley were filed in that state and CARB was a party to the settlement .  Regardless, the consent agreement applies to all domestic models.

If all you plan to do is replace the mufflers but leave the head pipes and catalyst stock, you could quickly swap back to the stock mufflers before taking the bike to a dealer if you're afraid they would try to void your warranty.  Or you could pay the ransom and buy their street legal tuner.  So far I haven't seen or heard of anyone having their warranty voided just over slip-on mufflers.  If anyone has, please jump in.

JMHO - Jerry

[Stewie_FL]

I was thinking more inline of why do I have to use a tuner that is certified for use in California. Seems like they are holding us captive to California standards when we don't even live there.

That's also why I didn't go the Fullsac way, I wanted to be able to go back to stock until my warranty runs out.

[iski]

When is California going to crack off and fall into the ocean and stop all this nonsense?

Not soon enough.  Fracking might help, if somebody invented a nuclear version.

[skratch]

are these the ones you got?  if so, shouldn't be an issue, as they are 50 state compliant.  that is as long as you still run the catalyst head pipe.

[timo482]

its simple, everybody, everywhere, violated the law with impunity. most harleys are sold in california. 17 and later have "mods", or "warranty on the engine", one or the other.

[FLSTFI Dave]

As long as the slip-ons you bought are EPA compliant and you do not change the head pipe your warranty will stay in tact.  Change the head pipe and engine warranty is done.

[Stewie_FL]

Yes, one of the dealers by me said Harley is not voiding warranty  just for slip-ons. My main point was that I just don't think that the rest of the country should have to follow the rules set forth by California and that is what the consent decree states.

[Phreakyz]

Yes, one of the dealers by me said Harley is not voiding warranty  just for slip-ons. My main point was that I just don't think that the rest of the country should have to follow the rules set forth by California and that is what the consent decree states.

It does not say that.  It says “  Tuning Product that was not covered by a California ARB Executive Order or otherwise approved by EPA.”    Meaning approved by the EPA or Cali ARB.  Harley got in trouble for knowingly compromising the emission controls on bikes.    If Ford or Chevy knowingly removed catalytic converters and retuned Camaro and mustangs so they did not meet emmisions they would have gotten in trouble too.   So why all the Cali Hate?

[grc]

It does not say that.  It says “  Tuning Product that was not covered by a California ARB Executive Order or otherwise approved by EPA.”    Meaning approved by the EPA or Cali ARB.  Harley got in trouble for knowingly compromising the emission controls on bikes.    If Ford or Chevy knowingly removed catalytic converters and retuned Camaro and mustangs so they did not meet emmisions they would have gotten in trouble too.   So why all the Cali Hate?

EXACTLY!  Forget the California references in the decree, the overall agreement is with the U.S. Government.  The action was brought by the EPA.  Harley has been getting away with emissions system tampering for decades, it wasn't a secret and as long as they kept it to little stuff like rejetting carbs and gutting mufflers the EPA didn't say anything.  When Harley got greedy and turned it into a big money making business, someone at EPA woke up from their long nap and said wait a minute, those fools are breaking federal laws.  And as far as I'm concerned it was a good thing. Previously Harley sold bikes that performed poorly in stock form, which forced customers to spend more money illegally modifying their new bike to make it at least run without stumbling, pinging, stalling, etc..  By taking those options away, the EPA has forced the people in Milwaukee to make their stock bikes at least run halfway decently straight out of the crate.  Kind of like all the other companies have had to do for a long time (they didn't get the free pass Harley always seemed to get).  The standards for passenger cars and light trucks are much tougher than the standards Harley has to meet, and people don't have to modify those vehicles to make them run well.  Harley should have been forced to do the same thing long ago.

Jerry

[Stewie_FL]

It does not say that.  It says “  Tuning Product that was not covered by a California ARB Executive Order or otherwise approved by EPA.”    Meaning approved by the EPA or Cali ARB.  Harley got in trouble for knowingly compromising the emission controls on bikes.    If Ford or Chevy knowingly removed catalytic converters and retuned Camaro and mustangs so they did not meet emmisions they would have gotten in trouble too.   So why all the Cali Hate?

Did you read your own post? California has the toughest rules and restrictions about everything compared to any other state. Like you said, tuning products not approved by the California ARB or the EPA, void your warranty. If it just said EPA I would have no problem with it. If California wants to have all these laws, it's up to the State of California and the people who live there, but why should I have to use a California ARB approved tuner when I live in the state of Florida or I lose my warranty. That's all I'm saying. Truthfully, changing anything on a stock bike violates EPA regulations.

[Stewie_FL]

Oh, and my slip_ons have not caused me any reproductive problems yet as stated by the California P65 warning on the box. LOL

[Stewie_FL]

And another thing, now you have to buy Harley approved everything. I think the EPA helped out Harley to make even more money.

Ok I'm done. 

[grc]

And another thing, now you have to buy Harley approved everything. I think the EPA helped out Harley to make even more money.

Ok I'm done. 

You forgot the other alternative, which is to buy a motorcycle from a company that makes bikes that outperform anything Harley makes right out of the crate, and often at a significantly lower price.  And don't forget, you don't HAVE to limit yourself to Harley kits and feeble tuners, you can do whatever you want to your bike.  The EPA isn't going to send someone to your house to check your bike for compliance.  If it's that important to you, just blow off the warranty and build whatever kind of fire breathing engine you want.  There are still plenty of performance engine builders who will create whatever you want, for a price.

One last time, the fact that they mention CARB in that decree does not impose CARB requirements on you in Florida.  For instance, you don't have an evaporative emissions system (carbon canister) on your bike, do you?  It's written the way it is so that people in California will clearly understand they have to comply not only with EPA requirements but also CARB requirements.  You're making a mountain out of nothing.

Jerry

[Stewie_FL]

You forgot the other alternative, which is to buy a motorcycle from a company that makes bikes that outperform anything Harley makes right out of the crate, and often at a significantly lower price.  And don't forget, you don't HAVE to limit yourself to Harley kits and feeble tuners, you can do whatever you want to your bike.  The EPA isn't going to send someone to your house to check your bike for compliance.  If it's that important to you, just blow off the warranty and build whatever kind of fire breathing engine you want.  There are still plenty of performance engine builders who will create whatever you want, for a price.

One last time, the fact that they mention CARB in that decree does not impose CARB requirements on you in Florida.  For instance, you don't have an evaporative emissions system (carbon canister) on your bike, do you?  It's written the way it is so that people in California will clearly understand they have to comply not only with EPA requirements but also CARB requirements.  You're making a mountain out of nothing.

Jerry

You don't sound like a Harley enthusiast. LOL If you look at my prior bike list they are all Japanese made bikes I didn't start buying Harleys till 2017. I bought the 2011 Heritage used in 2018. Was going to buy a 2020 Indian Roadmaster and not the CVO but I got tired of waiting for Indian to deliver them. In fact, was going to trade the Heritage in for a Chief Vintage but the dealer pissed me off so I cancel the purchase. i was thinking of buying a standard Ultra Limited and using the left over $14,000.00 and buying another Hayabusa but didn't.