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[Midnight Rider]

In the past couple of months I've been giving a lot of thought to things like good brakes, suspension, making more HP, etc.  I've had a couple of close calls lately in traffic with panic stop situations, the latest being this past Sunday on the Vrod which has excellent brakes (Brembos).  I consider myself to be a pretty good driver, both on the bike and in the car.  I consciously try and stay focused and look for avenues of escape when approaching potentially bad situations.  I've also got out in empty parking lots and practiced swerving, panic type braking, etc.  Not nearly enough, but I have at least done it a bit.  I think I need to do it more, and with my passenger on the bike as well, as that changes things a great deal, and would also allow her to get a better feel for what's happening when those situations arise where we have to all but lock the brakes up or make sudden changes in direction.

The problem I am experiencing though is more related to following distance behind other vehicles.  I live in a fairly large city...not by some standards, but there is a lot of traffic at times. I am finding it almost impossible to maintain what I consider to be a safe distance from the car in front of me...it is all but impossible to do so on the interstate, as someone will simply fill the gap you have created between yourself and the vehicle in front of you.  But I'm finding this to be the case, even on the state highways and other secondary roads.  If I leave a gap, someone tries to get in there!!  Even at speeds of 40mph, it takes several feet to stop one of our bikes.  I don't ride around like some grandpa, but I don't fly around like a sport bike rider might either....OK...maybe I do sometimes, but I reserve those time for when I have a clear line of sight.

Anticipating other people's behavior in their vehicle is something I find impossible NOT to do...you have to make assumptions about people not doing stupid, unexpected things to some extent.  I think I make the assumption that most people are going to do what is expected of them by others. Therein lies the flaw in my logic, I think...people do stupid things: not signaling, following too closely, not paying attention to what they are doing, much less those around them...you all know the drill.

What, if anything, do you guys/gals do?  How many here find that drivers seem to be getting worse and worse?  Or am I just getting old and more concerned about it?  Or is it just a matter of odds:  the more miles you ride/drive, the more likely you will be in situations with stupid people?  If there is some specific behaviors I can learn and incorporate into my riding style, I want to hear about them.  TIA...

[PHAZE]

I feel your pain.  Drivers sure don't cut you any slack for being on a bike.  I've experienced the same thing - you leave a gap and someone shoots into it.  You know that you don't need to ride a bike as aggressively as you might drive a car, but feel like you almost have to in order to stay in the flow of traffic.  I don't have any answers, but it does seem to be getting worse instead of getting better.  I notice a lot of folks on cell phones and others just not paying much attention to their driving.  It seems that to stay alive you have to ride like everyone is out to get you.  I sure like headin' out of the city a lot more than I enjoy headin' in.

[Fired00d]

......

What, if anything, do you guys/gals do?  How many here find that drivers seem to be getting worse and worse?  Or am I just getting old and more concerned about it?  Or is it just a matter of odds:  the more miles you ride/drive, the more likely you will be in situations with stupid people?  If there is some specific behaviors I can learn and incorporate into my riding style, I want to hear about them.  TIA...

I think it's a lot of combinations... More drivers, and more distractions for drivers while they are behind the wheel, we are getting older and appreciate/respect life more. I can remember the first bike I owned back when I was in my twenty's I did burnouts, and wheelies constantly. Now that I'm older most I'll get is a bunny hop when I change gears or little chirp from the rear wheel breaking traction on speed shift. I think as you mature you have more respect for life and treat it that way when you know you are putting yourself in vulnerable situations.

For keeping the safe distance between you and the other vehicles around you it is hard to maintain when traffic is heavy and I do try to keep it. However I'm more concerned about the driver being to close behind me then I'm with the one that has got into my space ahead of me. I can slow down and regain that space for the vehicle in front of me, but the one behind me are they paying attention or are they being distracted by something in the car.  If I have to stop are they going to be able to stop w/o running me over?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Hoist!]

Well, I'm sure I'll get hell again for this one, but here we go. I try to maintain a good overall picture of everything in front of me and try to put that picture behind me. I always try to be ahead of everything and be faster than anything behind me. I'll keep above the pace so I'm out in front of all the idiots! I'm always striving to be ahead of the cages. I do find myself constantly going fast as there always seems to be another cage ahead of you in NYC! Riding fast keeps my mind sharp, focused and prepared as best I can. It's fun too! I don't think I'm the poster boy for the MSF though! Hoist!

[Midnight Rider]

I think it's a lot of combinations... More drivers, and more distractions for drivers while they are behind the wheel, we are getting older and appreciate/respect life more. I can remember the first bike I owned back when I was in my twenty's I did burnouts, and wheelies constantly. Now that I'm older most I'll get is a bunny hop when I change gears or little chirp from the rear wheel breaking traction on speed shift. I think as you mature you have more respect for life and treat it that way when you know you are putting yourself in vulnerable situations.

For keeping the safe distance between you and the other vehicles around you it is hard to maintain when traffic is heavy and I do try to keep it. However I'm more concerned about the driver being to close behind me then I'm with the one that has got into my space ahead of me. I can slow down and regain that space for the vehicle in front of me, but the one behind me are they paying attention or are they being distracted by something in the car.  If I have to stop are they going to be able to stop w/o running me over?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Good points, Gary...I don't do a lot of things now that I would have done 25 or 30 years ago.  I don't recover as quickly from those things any more...

On interstates, it's a bit easier for me to have a better line of sight and watch what's happening 5 or 6 cars ahead or more, and get out from behind or beside someone who is driving erratically.  In some ways, the secondary arteries are worse...you get behind some big a$$ed SUV or Pickup, can't see what's ahead of them, somebody is on your a$$...you're just caught between a rock and a hard place (pun intended).  I'm sure you see the results of distracted drivers more than most of us in your line of work.  There's probably no good answer or solution, but it's sure got me thinking more about things I can do to improve the behavior of my bike and also what I can do to become a better driver.

Think I'll make myself a promise...get in that empty parking lot or on that empty road at least once a month and really practice a few things for 30 minutes or so...it's got to help program my old brain cells just a bit.

[ultrafxr]

Terry this is an excellent question and one we all should pay more attention to.  And it is a significant part of the MSF Basic Rider Course and is covered in detail in the Street Strategies section.  The recommendations are:  2 second minimum following distance; 4 second immediate path (when quick reaction is needed); and 12 second anticipated path (where you can play those "what if" games about what other drivers, pedistrians, etc, may or may not do).  Of course at 60 mph you cannot maintain that 2 second minimum following distance if traffic is heavy - that would equate to 188 feet (about 10 car lengths).  Ain't gonna happen as you pointed out.  Someone will jump in and fill that void. 

I don't have an answer except what you and others have said, be alert, practice the what if game, sharpen your swerving and braking skill by continuous practice. 

Personally I hate to ride in town for this very reason.  I only do city street riding as required to get myself out of town and on the highway.  I don't ever ride my bike to work because of the heavy traffic flow.  Just not worth the risk imo.

Regards

[Hoist!]

I think it's a lot of combinations... More drivers, and more distractions for drivers while they are behind the wheel, we are getting older and appreciate/respect life more. I can remember the first bike I owned back when I was in my twenty's I did burnouts, and wheelies constantly. Now that I'm older most I'll get is a bunny hop when I change gears or little chirp from the rear wheel breaking traction on speed shift. I think as you mature you have more respect for life and treat it that way when you know you are putting yourself in vulnerable situations.

For keeping the safe distance between you and the other vehicles around you it is hard to maintain when traffic is heavy and I do try to keep it. However I'm more concerned about the driver being to close behind me then I'm with the one that has got into my space ahead of me. I can slow down and regain that space for the vehicle in front of me, but the one behind me are they paying attention or are they being distracted by something in the car.  If I have to stop are they going to be able to stop w/o running me over?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

d00d, how do you pass the HBRR test that way? Hoist!

[Fired00d]

d00d, how do you pass the HBRR test that way? Hoist!

You don't have the HP that the HBRR's do in their bikes and dump the clutch from stand still. You asking for something to break doing that. They like to go WFO but from a roll on.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[HogBreath]

Heads up if & when you ride to Ky (Hoist). We have no shoulders. If you run off the road, you're in a ditch. That ditch can be anywhere from 2' deep to 120' deep. Typical drivers (me included and you won't read this in a driving manual) here drive towards the center of the road and ease over to the right when they cross blind spots like hills and curves. And watch for deer and dogs. There was a local rider killed yesterday by a dog running out in front of them. Best to not ride on county roads after dark if at all possible. I missed a deer last year by this much ---><---.

[Hoist!]

You don't have the HP that the HBRR's do in their bikes and dump the clutch from stand still. You asking for something to break doing that. They like to go WFO but from a roll on.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

So you agree with me. Riding that way, you'll be sure to keep everything behind you! I don't do wheelies or hole shots. Never did, never will. I like my bikes too much. I just like riding fast and pushing curves! Hoist!

[Hoist!]

Heads up if & when you ride to Ky (Hoist). We have no shoulders. If you run off the road, you're in a ditch. That ditch can be anywhere from 2' deep to 120' deep. Typical drivers (me included and you won't read this in a driving manual) here drive towards the center of the road and ease over to the right when they cross blind spots like hills and curves. And watch for deer and dogs. There was a local rider killed yesterday by a dog running out in front of them. Best to not ride on county roads after dark if at all possible. I missed a deer last year by this much ---><---.

I've hit one too once. Upstate NY, dog ran out of the gate right in front of me and clipped my engine guard. Poor thing went tumbling. I pulled over to see if he was OK and he got up and ran right back inside his gate. Luckily I didn't go down. But KY can't be any different than many rural areas. Things are what they are, and we all do what we do. I do my best and keep my machines in tip top shape; safe and reliable. I try to make sure that I'm always doing everything I can to be in control of my situation and my bike. My responsibilty! I can only control what's within my control. Never ride beyond your limitations. Other than that, I don't worry about what's beyond my control. Things always seem to happen for a reason. One day we all wake up dead. I'm not up to that yet, nor do I want to be! Hoist!

[iski]

  There's probably no good answer or solution, but it's sure got me thinking more about things I can do to improve the behavior of my bike and also what I can do to become a better driver.

Think I'll make myself a promise...get in that empty parking lot or on that empty road at least once a month and really practice a few things for 30 minutes or so...it's got to help program my old brain cells just a bit.

I practice turns, etc. on an empty parking lot occasionally and plan to add braking/evasive maneuvers next time out.  I find practicing helps me focus on whatever it is I am working on and with no car traffic equaling no distractions, it is time well spent.

A friend is considering an advanced rider course - something I have never done - might consider it.

On your first post re:today's drivers.  Agreed-they are worse today than ever.  Cell phones, GPS, lots of distractions to keep the folks in cages focused on everything BUT the road and other vehicles.  I tend to give scoots more room/respect and try to be as aware as possible when I am in a cage (50k miles or so per year usually).  Not sure what we can do to make the cagers more aware - seems like we lose another rider almost every year now from folks we know and most of them are not at fault - hit by a car.

[skyglide]

I practice turns, etc. on an empty parking lot occasionally and plan to add braking/evasive maneuvers next time out.  I find practicing helps me focus on whatever it is I am working on and with no car traffic equaling no distractions, it is time well spent.

A friend is considering an advanced rider course - something I have never done - might consider it.On your first post re:today's drivers.  Agreed-they are worse today than ever.  Cell phones, GPS, lots of distractions to keep the folks in cages focused on everything BUT the road and other vehicles.  I tend to give scoots more room/respect and try to be as aware as possible when I am in a cage (50k miles or so per year usually).  Not sure what we can do to make the cagers more aware - seems like we lose another rider almost every year now from folks we know and most of them are not at fault - hit by a car.

This is one of the best things I have done. Learned a lot. I only went along with my wife who has only been riding for three years and I thought I knew all the maneuvers. After 25yrs of ridding boy was I wrong. Seven hrs of obstacles/scenarios you could never think of. A lot of vans pulling out in front of you or them slamming on brakes. HOG will reimburse you the fee if you pass. Would highly recommend to all.

[Midnight Rider]

This is one of the best things I have done. Learned a lot. I only went along with my wife who has only been riding for three years and I thought I knew all the maneuvers. After 25yrs of ridding boy was I wrong. Seven hrs of obstacles/scenarios you could never think of. A lot of vans pulling out in front of you or them slamming on brakes. HOG will reimburse you the fee if you pass. Would highly recommend to all.

Sky...this was real world riding for this course?  Even if it was a closed course, it would be invaluable experience.  MSF Advanced Safety Course, right?

[skyglide]

Sky...this was real world riding for this course?  Even if it was a closed course, it would be invaluable experience.  MSF Advanced Safety Course, right?

Yes, Riders edge advanced course.