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[ultrafxr]

Questions for those more knowledgable than me.  With several members reporting 110 engine failures due to pinions out of tolerance it would be helpful to know the symptoms of this problem and be able to recognize it before a catastrophic engine failure.  What to look for - be alert to.  What is involved in checking this?  Do cams have to be removed?

What has changed in the bottom end of the motor to precipitate this condition?  Doesn't the 110 have the same bottom end as the 103 but with bigger jugs to increase the displacement?  If so, what's up with this.

[Chief]

Jerry,

I am also in the same boat as you, wondering.

From what I have heard, there are no symptoms to indicate a problem, until the cam cover is removed for other work. I heard of one where the oil pump wouldn't come off, and another discovered when gear drive cams were to be installed. I have not heard of any cases where anyone noticed anything that would make them check it out. I also haven't heard of anyone losing an engine due to crank failure.

I'm debating whether or not to check myself, but wouldn't know how much needs to be pulled out until getting inside. I'm hoping it would only require access to the end of the shaft.

As for the cause, I understand the crank / flywheel (rotating assembly) was lightened in the 07's. It sounds like there was a bit of weakening that also happened. If I am correct, the flywheels are pressed onto the crank instead of being welded causing another issue.

I think we'll learn more as time passes.

[Midnight Rider]

Jerry,

I am also in the same boat as you, wondering.

From what I have heard, there are no symptoms to indicate a problem, until the cam cover is removed for other work. I heard of one where the oil pump wouldn't come off, and another discovered when gear drive cams were to be installed. I have not heard of any cases where anyone noticed anything that would make them check it out. I also haven't heard of anyone losing an engine due to crank failure.

I'm debating whether or not to check myself, but wouldn't know how much needs to be pulled out until getting inside. I'm hoping it would only require access to the end of the shaft.

As for the cause, I understand the crank / flywheel (rotating assembly) was lightened in the 07's. It sounds like there was a bit of weakening that also happened. If I am correct, the flywheels are pressed onto the crank instead of being welded causing another issue.

I think we'll learn more as time passes.

Chief, wasn't there one case where someone's oil pump gear broke in two pieces?  Lost oil pressure, pulled over?  Can't remember who that was, but do remember it happening.   

[DCFIREMANN]

There is nothing you can do to check it besides pulling the cam plate and the cams.  Yes a drop in oil pressure is a sign or should I say no oil pressure is a sign. The "VOON" was up in the shop last night and we had a little discussion about the 110's. There are some problems but it is still wide spread. The best advice I can give you ( and this comes from a MASTER HD TECH) when you pick up your 110, RIGHT AWAY change the air cleaner, pipes and change the fuel injection mangement. He is partial to the RT mainly because that is what he uses and it is GENUINE HD! He likes the THUNDER MAX but he just doesn't have the training.

Be Safe

THE DAWG   

[Chief]

Chief, wasn't there one case where someone's oil pump gear broke in two pieces?  Lost oil pressure, pulled over?  Can't remember who that was, but do remember it happening.   

I think you are right. I forgot about that one.

Thanks

[Chief]

There is nothing you can do to check it besides pulling the cam plate and the cams.  Yes a drop in oil pressure is a sign or should I say no oil pressure is a sign. The "VOON" was up in the shop last night and we had a little discussion about the 110's. There are some problems but it is still wide spread. The best advice I can give you ( and this comes from a MASTER HD TECH) when you pick up your 110, RIGHT AWAY change the air cleaner, pipes and change the fuel injection mangement. He is partial to the RT mainly because that is what he uses and it is GENUINE HD! He likes the THUNDER MAX but he just doesn't have the training.

Be Safe

THE DAWG   

So I'm hearing I can't get it by just removing the pinion gear to access the end of the shaft? I'm sure it would be easier to get at it without the cam support plate, but much less teardown if I could get to a smooth surface outboard of the plate.

[DCFIREMANN]

Chief if you are going to remove the pinion gear it is 10 Allen screws to remove the cam plate. It is not a big deal to do and gives you access to the MEAT of the shaft!

Like I said earlier the problems are wide spread so far, but the MOCO does know about it. The only thing that we don't know is how wide spread and what is the cause. I would really like to know all of the particulars.

Be Safe

THE DAWG   

[ultrafxr]

There is nothing you can do to check it besides pulling the cam plate and the cams.  Yes a drop in oil pressure is a sign or should I say no oil pressure is a sign. The "VOON" was up in the shop last night and we had a little discussion about the 110's. There are some problems but it is still wide spread. The best advice I can give you ( and this comes from a MASTER HD TECH) when you pick up your 110, RIGHT AWAY change the air cleaner, pipes and change the fuel injection mangement. He is partial to the RT mainly because that is what he uses and it is GENUINE HD! He likes the THUNDER MAX but he just doesn't have the training.

Be Safe

THE DAWG   

Understand the advisability of getting the lean run condition corrected.  But how does this impact on problem with the crank?  I just don't see the connection.  Some who have had crank problems have already done what was suggested.

[DCFIREMANN]

Understand the advisability of getting the lean run condition corrected.  But how does this impact on problem with the crank?  I just don't see the connection.   Some who have had crank problems have already done what was suggested.

There is none. That is all he was telling me. His main concern with the 110's is the HEAT! Remember heat will kill everything if given enough time.

One thing to think about is when your oil gets way toooo hot it breaks down. When it breaks down it can't do it's job properly. When it can't do it's job properly parts start to wear. Now if the parts in question are lower end bearings then you would have a connection!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[ultrafxr]

There is none. That is all he was telling me. His main concern with the 110's is the HEAT! Remember heat will kill everything if given enough time.

One thing to think about is when your oil gets way toooo hot it breaks down. When it breaks down it can't do it's job properly. When it can't do it's job properly parts start to wear. Now if the parts in question are lower end bearings then you would have a connection!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Thanks.

[Chief]

Chief if you are going to remove the pinion gear it is 10 Allen screws to remove the cam plate. It is not a big deal to do and gives you access to the MEAT of the shaft!

Like I said earlier the problems are wide spread so far, but the MOCO does know about it. The only thing that we don't know is how wide spread and what is the cause. I would really like to know all of the particulars.

Be Safe

THE DAWG   

I don't want to undo the top end to do this.

[Chief]

There is none. That is all he was telling me. His main concern with the 110's is the HEAT! Remember heat will kill everything if given enough time.

One thing to think about is when your oil gets way toooo hot it breaks down. When it breaks down it can't do it's job properly. When it can't do it's job properly parts start to wear. Now if the parts in question are lower end bearings then you would have a connection!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Riding around yesterday and wound up hitting a string of trafic lights. Not stuck in traffic, but going from red light to red light. Oil got to 258, and the motor was hot enough that I heard it ping a couple of times when starting off.

Shot the heads when I got home, and got 331 Front, and 382 rear. This backs up the other hottest temp I have seen on the rear head. The ride home should have given it a good bit of time to cool down some. I have not shot it sitting still at a light yet. I may need to try that one day.

My AFR's are set 13.0 at idle, 13.5 at 0% to 60%, 13.0 at 80% throttle and 12.5 at WOT. Theses are no where near the 14.6 that the factory uses, and its still getting pretty damn hot.

Temps were in the mid 80's and sunny.

Sorry to steal your Pinion thread Jerry, but DAWG brought up the heat issue, and I thought this may be appropriate.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled Pinion Talk......

[Midnight Rider]

Maybe I'm wrong in my thinking here, and that would certainly be no surprise to anyone, but it seems if there is a "trend" to this, it's happening more to the early production numbers?  Or maybe it's just they've got enough miles on them for it to show up?  Anybody noticed whether there's a method to the madness on this potential problem?

Chief...I don't see how you could get the A/F much better than where you're running, unless you make it 13/1 all the time.  13.5 in the throttle ranges you mentioned should be fine.  Didn't they shorten the stroke up a bit on the 110's compared to the 103?  Bigger pistons, but shorter stroke is what I read somewhere...

[ultrafxr]

Riding around yesterday and wound up hitting a string of trafic lights. Not stuck in traffic, but going from red light to red light. Oil got to 258, and the motor was hot enough that I heard it ping a couple of times when starting off.

Shot the heads when I got home, and got 331 Front, and 382 rear. This backs up the other hottest temp I have seen on the rear head. The ride home should have given it a good bit of time to cool down some. I have not shot it sitting still at a light yet. I may need to try that one day.

My AFR's are set 13.0 at idle, 13.5 at 0% to 60%, 13.0 at 80% throttle and 12.5 at WOT. Theses are no where near the 14.6 that the factory uses, and its still getting pretty damn hot.

Temps were in the mid 80's and sunny.

Sorry to steal your Pinion thread Jerry, but DAWG brought up the heat issue, and I thought this may be appropriate.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled Pinion Talk......

No problem Chief.  I've got an ir thermo and need to remember to bring it along and check also.  Our little 900+ ride this weekend did get us into some city traffic and red lights also.  Temp in mid to upper 80s and while motor felt hot it was not that much different from my 103 as far as I can tell and I'm bone stock (except for K&N replacement in stock air box for the H-D pos air filter).  So even though you've done the mods and it is still hot has me even more confused.

[ultrafxr]

Maybe I'm wrong in my thinking here, and that would certainly be no surprise to anyone, but it seems if there is a "trend" to this, it's happening more to the early production numbers?  Or maybe it's just they've got enough miles on them for it to show up?  Anybody noticed whether there's a method to the madness on this potential problem?

Chief...I don't see how you could get the A/F much better than where you're running, unless you make it 13/1 all the time.  13.5 in the throttle ranges you mentioned should be fine.  Didn't they shorten the stroke up a bit on the 110's compared to the 103?  Bigger pistons, but shorter stroke is what I read somewhere...

Don't think so Terry.  Just got off phone with my dealer and he said bottom end is same as yours.