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[Rhino]

Twolane, why don't you give up some details, bike year, specs, options, build, exhaust, map U r using, let me take a look from here?
I'll respond Sunday, I need some R & R Sat.
Rhino

[Twolanerider]

Twolane, why don't you give up some details, bike year, specs, options, build, exhaust, map U r using, let me take a look from here?
I'll respond Sunday, I need some R & R Sat.
Rhino

Sure thing.  In bits and pieces it's all scattered around this or other threads but to get it all here in place we got this:

It's my red bike.  05 SEEG.

The hardware package is everything in Zippers "103 Muscle" kit.  That's the .005 over HD pistons, the rework of the heads they do, their 50mm throttle body, intake and air cleaner and the 657 cam.  Of no consequence to the tuning are Feuling lifters, cam plate, oil pump and Zippers push rods.  The map loaded is ZEEBMGBCXE082106 and was the map supplied in the ECM when delivered from Zippers.

Rhino I've tried a few things within the map.  Nothing dramatic; just never enough time to play with it that much.  I am certainly not above begging assistance from a soul more learned than myself.  So any help is greatly appreciated.

Currently it's just a base load of the map with no alterations other than three degrees retarded through the three or four steps that cover the cruise RPM range followed and preceded by graduating two step increments of 2 degrees and one degree to bring it back to baseline.  With that and AFR again at 13:1 across the board it is behaving as we've discussed here.

As we've also discussed here, I do like the hardware.  Especially enjoy both what it can do on its own (if the base is close enough to ride from) and what you can do with it.  Much control amd flexibility that just wouldn't be available otherwise.  I apparently just need a better base implementation of that hardware than that which was supplied from the company.

Thanks again.  Appreciate any efforts you might expend.

Don

[Midnight Rider]

Water vapor does not combust well.  Hot air temps hold more water vapor without condensing in the form of condensation...period.  Physics.  It's not fuel.  It's temp, combined with relative humidy (water molecules) in the atmosphere.

I guess my basic question here would be how quickly the ECM is able to compensate for variances in air temp/water vapor/fuel mixture.

Don, does the situation improve at all if you're riding over a period of a couple of hours when it starts pinging?  I don't know chit about the TMax, so I'm just posing questions here to learn something.

[Twolanerider]

Water vapor does not combust well.  Hot air temps hold more water vapor without condensing in the form of condensation...period.  Physics.  It's not fuel.  It's temp, combined with relative humidy (water molecules) in the atmosphere.

Give that man a banana  .

Don, does the situation improve at all if you're riding over a period of a couple of hours when it starts pinging?  I don't know chit about the TMax, so I'm just posing questions here to learn something.

Not much difference (if any) dependent on time on the road.  I'm never twisting it hard until it's warmed up anyway.  Assuming the engine has run long enough to get warmed up though the biggest (if not only) variable that dictates whether she's going to ping or not is how hot the day is.

[Hoist!]

Give that man a banana  .


Not much difference (if any) dependent on time on the road.  I'm never twisting it hard until it's warmed up anyway.  Assuming the engine has run long enough to get warmed up though the biggest (if not only) variable that dictates whether she's going to ping or not is how hot the day is.

My 80" Evo carb 10.5:1 does the same. The octane doesn't help. Even Cam 2. I'm convinced it's the heads on mine. Yours were just done. Could they be suspect? Hoist!

[Twolanerider]

My 80" Evo carb 10.5:1 does the same. The octane doesn't help. Even Cam 2. I'm convinced it's the heads on mine. Yours were just done. Could they be suspect? Hoist!

Howie, when the question is "could they" the answer is always yes.  Biggest trouble there is I absolutely don't know.  The heads are reworked by Zippers to (hopefully) improve upon the relatively poor hemispheric chamber we were saddled with to begin with.  The work is accepted, however, based solely on their assurance that it's an improvement.  Still waiting for response from Zippers to fully flesh out their ideas, suggestions, fears, concerns, alternatives or general ruminations on how to proceed.  They're busy.

[Hoist!]

Howie, when the question is "could they" the answer is always yes.  Biggest trouble there is I absolutely don't know.  The heads are reworked by Zippers to (hopefully) improve upon the relatively poor hemispheric chamber we were saddled with to begin with.  The work is accepted, however, based solely on their assurance that it's an improvement.  Still waiting for response from Zippers to fully flesh out their ideas, suggestions, fears, concerns, alternatives or general ruminations on how to proceed.  They're busy.

Just thinking out loud, since the Evo's done it for a few years. I've tried gas, oil cooler to get the heat down, ignitions, timing changes-simple stuff with the Dyna S. Nothing helped. It's been happening since I did the top end 20,000 miles ago. Next top end will get new heads. That's why I mentioned it since mine did it since the heads were done. Hoist!

[SCRM-R]

Water vapor does not combust well.  Hot air temps hold more water vapor without condensing in the form of condensation...period.  Physics.  It's not fuel.  It's temp, combined with relative humidy (water molecules) in the atmosphere.

I guess my basic question here would be how quickly the ECM is able to compensate for variances in air temp/water vapor/fuel mixture.

Don, does the situation improve at all if you're riding over a period of a couple of hours when it starts pinging?  I don't know chit about the TMax, so I'm just posing questions here to learn something.

TC, what you are saying makes more sense to me than anything I've heard.  If it's bad fuel, then every damn tank of fuel that I've run through it since the weather's been hot has been bad.  My Zippers 117" is pinging bad now, and didn't do it at all during the winter.  I just don't think that it's the fuel...I think it's the T-Max.  My 103" was a high compression motor with a Race Tuner, and it didn't ping at all.  I'm going to a Zippers tuner in a few weeks, and if he can't tune it out, I'm going back to the Race Tuner...no question about it.  Couple the pinging with the fact that the turn signals won't self-cancel, with no help on that from Zippers either, and I'm about ready to try something different, even if it's wrong.

Oh, and mine gets worse after you've been riding for an hour or so.

And now, my #%$&^ battery won't charge...I think it's the voltage regulator.  Chit!

[Twolanerider]

TC, what you are saying makes more sense to me than anything I've heard.  If it's bad fuel, then every damn tank of fuel that I've run through it since the weather's been hot has been bad.  My Zippers 117" is pinging bad now, and didn't do it at all during the winter.  I just don't think that it's the fuel...I think it's the T-Max.  My 103" was a high compression motor with a Race Tuner, and it didn't ping at all.  I'm going to a Zippers tuner in a few weeks, and if he can't tune it out, I'm going back to the Race Tuner...no question about it.  Couple the pinging with the fact that the turn signals won't self-cancel, with no help on that from Zippers either, and I'm about ready to try something different, even if it's wrong.

Oh, and mine gets worse after you've been riding for an hour or so.

And now, my #%$&^ battery won't charge...I think it's the voltage regulator.  Chit!

SCRM, our circumstances with detonation sound similar.  It's not fuel.  It's not seasonal fuel mixes.  It's not fuel mixes varied by geography.  Mine has done it in six states from lots of different fuel labels.  Unless Zippers can make it better they will have created a three season bike not suitable for riding in the high summer.

I hope they offer mapping solutions that will address the matter that (now) quite a few of us seem to be having.  Perhaps they'll work to extend their customer service reputation, and resurrect some of the damage they've caused themselves by inattention, by something as direct as offering to tune bikes that are acting up.  A willingness to make right what their system makes effectively unridable during the height of the riding season seems a fair reaction on their part. 

If the system in fact can't be tailored to effective summer riding I suppose they might have to be asked to just buy some systems back.  After all, nowhere in the disclosure information is the system described as "revolutionarily effective for Harley engine management; seven or eight monts out of the year."

Of course as of yet it seems no one has actually got a contextual response.  So patience must be exercised. 

For a little bit.

[SCRM-R]

So patience must be exercised. 

For a little bit.

What's that I hear?  Zippers laughing?  I'll be that's what would happen if I request that they buy it back.  And patience?  I'm out of it...Race Tuner's not perfect I know, but it does offer some advantages...advantages that I was willing to forego for what I thought, and what Zippers represented was a much improved ECM/Tuning Module.  I now think that they put this thing on the market much too hastily with too many bugs not yet worked out.  And that service-after-the-sale that they were supposedly so renowned for?  Now too busy I guess.

[Twolanerider]

What's that I hear?  Zippers laughing?  I'll be that's what would happen if I request that they buy it back.  And patience?  I'm out of it...Race Tuner's not perfect I know, but it does offer some advantages...advantages that I was willing to forego for what I thought, and what Zippers represented was a much improved ECM/Tuning Module.  I now think that they put this thing on the market much too hastily with too many bugs not yet worked out.  And that service-after-the-sale that they were supposedly so renowned for?  Now too busy I guess.

SCRM, I still believe in Santa Clause.  So I'm just certain Zippers is working the midnight oil this very weekend developing a solution for those of us experiencing this problem.

[SBB]

SCRM, I still believe in Santa Clause.  So I'm just certain Zippers is working the midnight oil this very weekend developing a solution for those of us experiencing this problem.

 

Ho Ho Ho boys and girls!
Merry Tmax to one and all!
Ho Ho Ho

 

[Twolanerider]

Ho Ho Ho

C'mon now Chip.  I haven't called anyone those kinds of names; yet.

[SBB]

C'mon now Chip.  I haven't called anyone those kinds of names; yet.

What about that lady(?) that lived above you working on that 1000 a day budget.
Or was that 1000 per hour?
Didn't she qualify?


 

[Twolanerider]

What about that lady(?) that lived above you working on that 1000 a day budget.
Or was that 1000 per hour?
Didn't she qualify?


 

According to her it was per hour.  And, at those rates, I don't think she did.  Courtesan maybe.  From my perspective though she was just a good neighbor.