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[SneakyPete]

I still feel, like with every tuning device, you need to create your own custom map on a Dyno, to get your starting point accurate. You can use Zippers base map and get lucky, you can tweak it like Rhino does. But the bottom line is that to have it run right, the base map has to be right. The only way to get the correct base map for each engine is to map it directly for that engine. You need a Dyno and a guy that knows TMAT software to create this. I still don't see how this device avoids Dyno Tuning. It will maintain a tune to a map you have in there. But that map had better be right to start off with. I think the marketing exceeds the engineering! JMO! Hoist!

Ditto, couldn't have said it better myself!

[Midnight Rider]

Then the system is no more useful than a SERT or PCIII, which is a far cry from what is represented by Zippers.  Finding a Tmax tuner has always been the problem with the Tmax before the autotune feature was a glimmer in anyone's eye.  Unless you live in the immediate 200 mile radius of Zippers.

That they have not provided a base map on a motor BUILT BY THEM, in essence, which makes the bike drivable, is inexcusable.  I followed Don's build closely, as I will be doing things to my bike in the next year, and he has Zippers parts, Zippers machine work, and Zippers base map, in a build that is not at all radical, just what I would consider middle of the road, considering what CAN be done to a 103 platform.  Yes, every bike is different, but that difference is not radically significant, IMO.  A good base map should at least get any similar motor in the ball park...even in the infield.  Then the tuning is just fine tuning, not starting from outside the stadium.  That is the VERY thing the autotune is supposed to take care of, else it's just a box and a couple of sensors, able to MONITOR, not tune.

The TmaxAT was on my list of parts to acquire over the next several months.  Unless this is resolved, and quickly, I'll be looking at alternate methodology to accomplish my goals.

Based on initial reports from Don and several other people here, I have RECOMMENDED this system to a few people I know.  In a million years, I would have never dreamed these kinds of problems would have cropped up just because of ambient temps and humidity.  If the product cannot adapt for changing weather, might as well be a boat anchor.

I really hope Zippers steps up to the plate on this, and does so in a damn big hurry.

[Twolanerider]

Then the system is no more useful than a SERT or PCIII,

TC, after what has been learned recently I can't disagree.  We're seeing that base mapping of much greater extent then they can supply out of the box is very often necessary.  In the public forum here or via PM I've now seen discussion of just over a dozen with driveability issue of greater or lesser concern.  Have no idea what our total cohort of TMax w/AT users might be.  But a dozen out of any number provided by this membership is statistically very signicant.

I've no qualm with saying I wish I'd gone a different direction.  It's unfortunate I started in winter so could not immediately have the problems present.  But it is what it is.  So my first option will be to make work what I've got.  Others should note what they might have to go through to be working effectively.  To that end....

I really hope Zippers steps up to the plate on this, and does so in a damn big hurry.

About noon today an email from Dan Fitzmaurice at Zippers arrived with a revised map and other instructions.  As described last night I have no issue with it being a few hours later than originally suggested.  The response from Fitzmaurice has been of a friendly tone and helpful tone.  Getting the revised map in the time frame I have is also a perfectly adequate response.  If Zippers writ large had been this responsive (and accurately responsive) from day one the relationship would be somewhat different than it's currently been forged.

Within a day or two I'll have an opportunity to try the revised map.  Have promised Fitzmaurice would advise him of driveability progress made or not made by the revised map.  Hopefully this will be real progress.  If not hopefully a follow on effort tweaking it a bit more would finish dialing it in.  If such a follow on effort is also supplied with the same alacrity (sorry John, look it up) as was Dan's effort with this one his efforts will have made a strong step in the right direction toward repairing some of the damaged perception the company has caused itself.

Quite frankly the errors have been more than one.  So one correct effort won't make up for it.  It would still be a difficult and unwarranted choice to grant anew total trust in the promises some there might offer or suggest based on one timely response.  A first step is a frist step though.  With luck it would be the beginning of a process of correction that restores lots of lost credibility and repairs some real damage to the perception of the company. 

The next step will be to see what gain is had by the new map.  If the problem several of us are experiencing is correctable via customer service, and that customer service can be had without having to drag the company kicking and screaming to the table to get it done, that will be progress worth noting.

[Midnight Rider]

Good luck with the new upload, Don.

Like so many other things in life, a few screw ups can undo a whole chit load of at-a-boys.  It's all about what a person or company does about the screw ups. 

[Talon]

I to am holding my purchase of the TMAT to see what happens here. I think this thread is getting diluted, with so many post. It would be nice if everyone could just recap if you have a TMAT are you having this problem or not, I think I see three that are, not heard from anyone not having the problem. Does this sound correct? Probably couldn't have seen this at the beginning, but a poll would have been nice.

At any rate keep us posted, I'd like to see how long it takes to get fixed, if at all!!!!!

[FR8TRN]

I'll recap mine for ya, I HAD a TMAT on mine, tried working out issues with Zippers, it still didn't work.  Pinging and so much heat the mufflers blued then cracked/peeled the chrome plus poor...really poor mileage.  I put the TMAT on the shelf, the other day, I put it in the mail to someone else who really wanted to have it, and boy do I feel better now......I'm not blessed with 2Lanes patience (or vocabulary I've been flat wearing out www.m-w.com in this thread).

Now if I could just figure out how to beat the lock HD has on the SERT so it can't be used on more than one bike.  Sure wish I was in an Electronics lab still...woulda had it figured out by now.......

[ultrafxr]

I'll recap mine for ya, I HAD a TMAT on mine, tried working out issues with Zippers, it still didn't work.  Pinging and so much heat the mufflers blued then cracked/peeled the chrome plus poor...really poor mileage.  I put the TMAT on the shelf, the other day, I put it in the mail to someone else who really wanted to have it, and boy do I feel better now......I'm not blessed with 2Lanes patience (or vocabulary I've been flat wearing out www.m-w.com in this thread).

Now if I could just figure out how to beat the lock HD has on the SERT so it can't be used on more than one bike.  Sure wish I was in an Electronics lab still...woulda had it figured out by now.......

Hey Mike.  Have you tried it on another bike?  What happened?  I've posted about this before long time ago.  This technology is all way above my pay grade but if some teenager in Scandavia can figure the unlock code for DVDs worth millions you'd think this could be done.  Not enough teenagers riding Harleys I guess!

[FR8TRN]

Hey Mike.  Have you tried it on another bike?  What happened?  I've posted about this before long time ago.  This technology is all way above my pay grade but if some teenager in Scandavia can figure the unlock code for DVDs worth millions you'd think this could be done.  Not enough teenagers riding Harleys I guess!

Yeah, tried it yesterday, it comes back and tells you that this isn't the right ECM and it can only be used on one ECM...and blah blah blah....was worth a try...... I use to do this stuff, it would be easy with the right gear, I just don't have the right gear.  You can still use it to read DTC and clear them, and anything in data collection mode seems to work, but ya can't download to the ECM....if I come up with something I'll be sure to BlackMarket it. LOL

[JMACK]

Just installed zipper efi on my SEUC  110in w/ d&d 2 into 1 exh, hi flow a/c, redshift 575 cams. fueling oil pump and lifters.
Wrench in Abq did the install.  Seemed to run ok back home 130 miles.  Now it just surges. Shift a gear, apply throttle, and it just doesn't come on. Don't think it applies to temp and the problems listed on this thread, but it's sure a pain in the ____! Now having to return to Abq this Friday, assume the mechanic will clear and reload.   Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Looking forward to letting the Eagle Scream.
JMack New Mexico
Riding For Those Who Can't

[Ironhorse]

Don, Freightrain, everyone else,

I SO identify with your issues. I've been waiting since February for a resolution to my Zippers ECM issue. And just like others, my calls, e-mails and such go unanswered. When I last spoke to Danny Fitz, he said he would have one of his techs work on the issue. I guess February to June is reasonable for them. At this point I really don't know what else any of us can do but continue to wait.

Mark

[Twolanerider]

Don, Freightrain, everyone else,

I SO identify with your issues. I've been waiting since February for a resolution to my Zippers ECM issue. And just like others, my calls, e-mails and such go unanswered. When I last spoke to Danny Fitz, he said he would have one of his techs work on the issue. I guess February to June is reasonable for them. At this point I really don't know what else any of us can do but continue to wait.

Mark

Mark, if they don't/can't/won't make it right we can pull the hardware off and move on.  I know yours would be a lot more involved to do that than mine.  But, in the end, what are the options.

Am hoping to get or make the opportunity to load the new software in the bike this evening.  Might even have time to take it for a spin if the weather stays warm enough to make it an effective test.  If not will try and steal an hour to run it out tomorrow afternoon.

[Twolanerider]

Just aborted the attempt to begin finding out if the revised map supplied by Zippers would help or not.  The map wouldn't load.

I have the SmartLink software v. 2006.16.3.0 .  No mention was made nor question asked about software versions.  This software reports the supplied revised map as an incompatible version though. 

Can not find a link to download Smarklink itself on either the Zippers or the Thundermax websites.  Don't know whether the map supplied is corrupted or whether one or the other of us are working with a software outdated enough it won't read the file created on the other's platform.  The supplied revised map has an .slk file extension.  If anyone knows version an extension information for the SmartLink software don't hesitate to share.

To summarize; after the hope of progress there was none.  As to why, I know nothing; other then that delay continues.  Have already forwarded the revised map back to Zippers with a description of the problem.  Will wait again.  Not for a lot longer.  But will wait again.

[Hoist!]

Just aborted the attempt to begin finding out if the revised map supplied by Zippers would help or not.  The map wouldn't load.

I have the SmartLink software v. 2006.16.3.0 .  No mention was made nor question asked about software versions.  This software reports the supplied revised map as an incompatible version though. 

Can not find a link to download Smarklink itself on either the Zippers or the Thundermax websites.  Don't know whether the map supplied is corrupted or whether one or the other of us are working with a software outdated enough it won't read the file created on the other's platform.  The supplied revised map has an .slk file extension.  If anyone knows version an extension information for the SmartLink software don't hesitate to share.

To summarize; after the hope of progress there was none.  As to why, I know nothing; other then that delay continues.  Have already forwarded the revised map back to Zippers with a description of the problem.  Will wait again.  Not for a lot longer.  But will wait again.

Don, do you know anyone that tunes the TMAT? Why wait for another canned map when you can get the TMAT tuned to your motor specifically. I know it costs even more that way. But that TMAT ain't worth crap if you don't have an accurate base map to start. What better starting point is a properly Dynotuned engine? I'm not believing that this thing is self tuning. To me, it's more like it's more for self-correcting and maintaining a properly supplied/tuned base map. Garbage in = garbage out! Hoist!

[Twolanerider]

Don, do you know anyone that tunes the TMAT? Why wait for another canned map when you can get the TMAT tuned to your motor specifically. I know it costs even more that way. But that TMAT ain't worth crap if you don't have an accurate base map to start. What better starting point is a properly Dynotuned engine? I'm not believing that this thing is self tuning. To me, it's more like it's more for self-correcting and maintaining a properly supplied/tuned base map. Garbage in = garbage out! Hoist!

Howie, if I knew of such an option I'd have bailed on Zippers'/Kitzmiller's sad excuse for assistance and just tried to work through that alternative about a light year ago.  I don't look forward to or especially enjoy the self flaggelation that is being the level of asshole necessary to shame or annoy them in to assistance.  In fact I rather resent it when someone else by their actions or inactions forces me to be an asshole.

Lacking other options, however, they're it.  A problem predicated on original promises of capability to begin with and support later if necessary that are wholly separate from reality.

Paying someone else to do another tune isn't the issue here really.  Getting some ignition and fuel management system working right is.  I say "some" because if I end up hiring a tuner to make the bike run right I'll be hiring someone to tune a SERT or a PC.  I'm certainly not above making a mistake the first time.  But I'll be damned if I'm throwing good money after bad.

Zippers either will make this work in what will be from now short order or they won't.  If they won't they'll either offer to buy the system back because they couldn't make thier own system work in a hardware environment of their own parts or they won't offer to buy it back.  If they can't make it work via their own efforts, however, I'll be running away like the girl whose just heard the words "I promise, I'll pull out, really; and yes, I love you too."  If I'm going to be further taken advantage of while getting my pants yanked down it's sure as hell not going to willingly come from dudes at a bike shop.

[Hoist!]

Fully agree Don. Most people don't change engine components all that often. With that, nothing wrong with just tuning the bike to the setup and be done with it. I'm looking forward to getting the bike back and then an excellent tune from a reputable tuner, and be done with mine for awhile. If I do more work after the w.....ty is up, I'll just have him retune it. Sorry you're going thru this. I have a feeling John Golden is in your near future! Hoist!