Wow,
I am sure dissapointd that Zippers is taking a lot of open flack from some of our members here. This is a downright shame that this laundry is getting aired openly. I am not happy to see this (for the first time in a week I can see a bit thank goodness), since I know the product so well, and never see this stuff on any of my install, or mods. I still feel someone is making a mistake.
Of no consequence to the tuning are Feuling lifters, cam plate, oil pump and Zippers push rods. The map loaded is ZEEBMGBCXE082106 and was the map supplied in the ECM when delivered from Zippers."
DID ZIPPERS DO THE BUILD, AND THE INSTALL, INCLUDING THE LIFTERS AND PUSHRODS. DID THEY PHYSICALLY DO IT I MEAN, OR DID YOU HAVE A LOCAL SHOP GET INVOLVED, OR DID YOU DO IT YOURSELF. I AM SUSPECT IF IT WAS PARTED TOGETHER OUTSIDE OF ZIPPERS FOR A COUPLE REASONS, EXPLAINED LATER.
"Currently it's just a base load of the map with no alterations other than three degrees retarded With that and AFR again at 13:1 across the board it is behaving as we've discussed here."
ILOOKED AT THE BASE MAP YOU POSTED, THE TIMING VS ENGINE SPEED, AND NOTE TWO THINGS. I AM LOOKING AT AN UNMODIFIED MAP, AND SINCE YOU ARE LINKED AT THE TIME, I CAREFULLY LOOKED AT THE 24 LISTED PARAMETERS, WHICH ALSO LOOK GREAT.
"Zippers "103 Muscle" kit. The map loaded is ZEEBMGBCXE082106 and was the map supplied in the ECM when delivered from Zippers."
THE FIRST THING I CHECKED, AND YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE, WAS OCCASIONALLY CHECK FOR UPDATES. THE NEWEST UPDATE FOR YOUR INSTALL WAS DONE IN APRIL 07. IT IS MAP NUMBER 040907. IT IS THE SAME PREFIX NUMBERS. WHEN I WENT TO CHECK THE BACKGROUND ON THE MAP NUMBER YOU SUPPLIED, THIS NEWEST ONE HAD BEEN AN OPTION. IF INTERNAL CHANGES ARE MADE, THIS IS ALWAYS THE FIRST PLACE TO CHECK. SO, HERE IS ONE ISSUE OVERLOOKED. THE NEXT YOU FORGOT WAS THE CHECK FOR UPDATES ON THE SOFTWARE. YOU ARE USING AN OLD VERSION, AGAIN THE NEW ONE IS 2007-17-11. YOU NEED TO OCCASIONAL SEE IF ZIPPERS ADDED ANYTHING, AND THIS IS CLEARLY THE FIRST PLACE YOU NEED TO BE GOING. ZIPPERS SOFTWARE AND HARDWARE AND VERSION REVISIONS ARE CLEARLY LABELED LINKS WITHIN THE PROGRAM.
THE ABOVE CONCERNS ME. YOU INDICATED YOU MADE SOME CHANGES TO THE TIMING, ALTHOUGH THE MAP YOU POSTED DOES NOT SHOW THIS. THIS MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT TO THE TUNER, WE MUST STAY WITH WHAT YOU HAVE FIRST. ANYWAY, WE ARE GOING TO TOSS THE MAP YOU CURRENTLY HAVE IN THE BIKE. I HAVE TRIED TO HELP YOU STEP BY STEP, BUT YOU ARE GLOSSING OVER IT. YOU ALSO STATED SOME CHANGES IN THE NEW MAP ZIPPERS SENT YOU. WELL UNLESS YOU HAVE THE WRITING MAP SOFTWARE, YOU CANNOT SEE ANY OF THIS. YOU HAVE END USER, AND THAT IS ALL YOU NEED IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, SINCE YOU HAVE A GOOD BASE TO WORK FROM. HOWEVER, I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE CHANGES YOU MAY HAVE MAP TO THE TIMING ARE FLAT WRONG, AND FOR THEM TO HAVE TOOK, YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN THE TELLTALES FOR THE PRIMARY SETTING VS THE CHANGED SETTINGS. THESE I DO NOT SEE.
I AM NOT TRYING TO BUST YOUR CHOPS, BUT YOU NEED TO LET SOMEONE WHO REALLY UNDERSTANDS THE UNIT DO THIS. I FIND 2 MANY PEOPLE MAKE IT SO COMPLICATED, AND READ INTO IT MUCH MORE THAN IS THERE, AND FRANKLY SOME ALWAYS SEEM TO COMPLETELY MISS A CRITICAL STEP IN THE PROGRAMMING. HEY, IT HAPPENS, BUT IT HAPPENS WAY TO MUCH. THE RESULT OF THESE ERRORS ARE NOT ZIPPERS, THEY SPEND SMALL FORTUNES ON EACH MAP. iT AIN'T NO WALK IN THE PARK FOR THE DEVELOPMENT SIDE, AND THEY WON'T RELEASE IT UNTIL IT WORKS. LOOK, I BRIEFLY WENT THROUGH THE SAME THING. IT WASN' ZIPPERS, IT WAS MY DEALER.
I also looked at the attahment you sent Zippers on the fax. You made numerous errors on that submission, and I hope Zippers is not trying to make a special map to compensate for what you submitted. It won't work. Also, the fact that you say you cannot load the new map they sent is not possible, unless trying to do it in the wrong sequence. For example, number 8 on the fax, I know TPS is flat wrong, 52 aint gonna be it, its more like 11%. You also said you were at 13.1 across the board. Well that is not true also, unless you are running in an open loop, this fixed number will be so, but in closed loop, it is a basis reference and has nothing to do with the actuals going on behind the scenes, unles the CLM is not activiated. And then the stored offsets, we talked of this before, but you did not respond specifically on what you were doing in there.
So, I can tell you a couple of other things also. The adjustable rods installed in the bike, are they Zippers? If so, with your confriguration, there is a special setting on those, vs what the regular Harley mech thinks, they thik they know better. It makes a big difference.
YOU AND YOUR FOLLOWERS CAN MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT ZIPPERS, AND HOW 'BAD' THEY ARE ALL YOU LIKE, BUT I AM TELLING YOU, IT IS NOT THE CASE. WHEN A PRODUCT THAT INSTALLS ON YOUR BIKE IS TO BE DONE BY YOURSELF, YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND IT FULLY FIRST. IT ELIMINATES THE DYNO REQUIREMENTS BECASUE ZIPPERS SPENT THE TIME TO MAKE THE PERFECT MAPS FOR SPECIFIC COMBINATIONS. BUT ONE MUST PAY ATTENTION.
FOR ALL THE BITCHING ON THIS BOARD, I TALK WITH HUNDREDS MORE THAT ARE HAPPY AS CLAMS, BUT THE PROBLEM, AND THIS IS A BROAD SWEEP, IS ALWAYS AS THEY SAY 'PILOT ERROR', NOT THE MANUFACTURER. THIS IS NOW GOTTEN TO BE THE MOST CHILDISH THREAD ON THE BOARD. I FOR ONE, DO NOT SUBSCRIBE TO WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO ZIPPERS. YOU GUYS ARE CLEARLY OVER THE TOP, AND MY HELP CLEARLY SEEMS TO BE GOING AWAY FROM A TECHNICAL SIDE, AND BTW, I DID THIS WITH ONE PAINFUL EYE, NO CHOICE BECASUE THIS THREAD IS OUTTA CONTROL. PLEASE STOP and ADDRESS THE SPECIFICS ANOTHER WAY.
Rhino(oneeyedronfornow)
Author
Topic: TMAT (Read 46416 times)