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[Eqcons]

Thanks Howie.  No, didn't bring the original ECM, because I'd have had to bring the O2 sensors too, and if I'd fitted them, the ECM would have been throwing up errors because the active valves on the Air intake and exhause have been disconnected...

Jim

[Hoist!]

Thanks Howie.  No, didn't bring the original ECM, because I'd have had to bring the O2 sensors too, and if I'd fitted them, the ECM would have been throwing up errors because the active valves on the Air intake and exhause have been disconnected...

Jim

That's right, I forgot about your Flappers! Can you get another TMAT overnighted to you for exchange back to Zippers? Sounds like with all the issues you're having, that's the least they can do. You haven't had it in that long and run a stock engine. Maybe they can exchange this unit and provide a better map with it at the same time. Good luck Jim. Hoist!

[Eqcons]

That's right, I forgot about your Flappers! Can you get another TMAT overnighted to you for exchange back to Zippers? Sounds like with all the issues you're having, that's the least they can do. You haven't had it in that long and run a stock engine. Maybe they can exchange this unit and provide a better map with it at the same time. Good luck Jim. Hoist!

Overnighted to the south of Spain might be taxing them a bit, IF they were easily contactable..... 

Jim

[Twolanerider]

I've been in your shoes with Zippers so I know the level of high dollar, high expectation, and high frustration that you are dealing with.

Good Luck

That's just it Mark, I don't think asking that the bike be rideable in the summer time is a "high expectation."  I honestly don't believe that simply asking for the product to work as advertised, or expecting easily supplied support if it does not, is an expectation above or beyond the regular call of duty.  Without intending to speak for anyone I'm pretty sure that this group of fellow travellers we're now a part of would all say the same.  No-bad-pinging isn't a high expectation  .

[Hoist!]

Overnighted to the south of Spain might be taxing them a bit, IF they were easily contactable..... 

Jim

It's a 'Global" environment today Jim. Getting one there shouldn't be a problem. Getting in touch with, and getting something out of Zippers, that might be more difficult! Hopefully they're wanting this issue resolved and to go away, so they they have incentive to cooperate and help. Oh, who the hell am I kidding! Hoist!

[Twolanerider]

Ron, hope you're not aiming that at me.  I'm not anyone's follower

Don't sweat it Jim.  The fellow travellers' bike issues are enough to worry about.  No sense in asking for more.  I don't envy your position at all though.  For me a swap back is easy.  Your 07 with it's stock 07 o2 sensors and the European exhaust additions makes it actually a fair bit of work. 

Good luck and enjoy the trip Jim. 

[Eqcons]

It's a 'Global" environment today Jim. Getting one there shouldn't be a problem. Getting in touch with, and getting something out of Zippers, that might be more difficult! Hopefully they're wanting this issue resolved and to go away, so they they have incentive to cooperate and help. Oh, who the hell am I kidding! Hoist!

Well, we don't know that the TMAT is faulty, of course.  I don't know what would be the result of a faulty O2 sensor either, though I doubt it would do this) and of course Zippers give no warranty on those in any case.  But it does seem mighty coincidental that the rear cylinder has been running hotter than Hell, and now it won't run....

Jim

[Twolanerider]

Well, we don't know that the TMAT is faulty, of course.  I don't know what would be the result of a faulty O2 sensor either, though I doubt it would do this) and of course Zippers give no warranty on those in any case.  But it does seem mighty coincidental that the rear cylinder has been running hotter than Hell, and now it won't run....

Jim

Jim, making the assumption that what Kitzmiller told the group here quite some time is correct (and there's no reason to think that it wasn't) a faulty o2 sensor simply takes the unit back to open loop.  Like having the Thundermax by itself.  If the base maps are as good as they suggest to us they'd be in the sales literature that sales the Thundermax by itself gaining driveabilty issues as you're describing still should not be the expectation then.

On that note, however, one of the several PM messages I've received while this conversation has been ongoing described an issue that would "go away" when the autotune function was turned off.  The man apparently had a bad autotune module or some other issue that would cause it to "learn" improperly.  Whatever the issue was his bike ran decently with the autotune disabled and progressively worse when re-enabled.

That was a legitimate suggestion I'd not considered before.  I have just now gotten back to the house after trying it this morning. Of course mine only had a couple hundred miles of "learning" on it after the new installation yesterday.  So didn't expect much general difference. But did want to at least isolate one set of hardware from the other and see if data provided by the module might be negatively impacting it in any way.  It still pings.

[Eqcons]

Of course I didn't bring the TMAT cable with me on the trip either......

[Twolanerider]

Well, we don't know that the TMAT is faulty, of course.  I don't know what would be the result of a faulty O2 sensor either, though I doubt it would do this) and of course Zippers give no warranty on those in any case.  But it does seem mighty coincidental that the rear cylinder has been running hotter than Hell, and now it won't run....

Jim

Went back to find the "other" post.  Had missed it scanning the first time through.  Very sorry for the even greater hassle right in the middle of your trip.

Even though the tech staff said no warranty are they at least willing to work on it?  Or are you without both warranty and service options?

Certainly hope it's something simpler like a bad wire, coil, injector or a chafed injector harness.  Really don't even want to think about scenarios in which your detonation was so extreme you'd burned a piston or other such horrors. 

If it ran on both cylinders when you shut it off last night and didn't when you started it this morning the odds are far more likely the problem is an easily serviceable one.  Again, sorry this intruded on your trip.  Good luck.

Of course I didn't bring the TMAT cable with me on the trip either......

Ok, THAT was just dumb  !  (he says with love)

[FR8TRN]

I have one more piece of diagnostics to try that may at least narrow down the problem. As you can tell, I am sharing a lot of frustration, and can't get a grasp on it.

If I am correct, you had at one time mentioned that you added a power commander and a tune on this bike, and noted that it ran fine.

Well, is it possible the sensors are bad on the Autotune?   Before anything, I would try the following before tearing into it again.  Disable the sensors, and set the AFR's in override? for 12.5 or richer across the board and take it for a ride.  If i am not mistaken, disabling the closed loop from the module may do this, but I cant read enough to go over that detail.  Perhaps this process of elimination will help, and at least feed the motor the extra fuel. 

At least you could discover if the AFR metering side is actual hampering the flow inadvertantly.   A 02 sensor can go bad, or, it can get coated, and send erroneous signals to the TMAX. 


Rhino

Rhino, if you disable the sensors (basically taking it out of AutoTune Mode) then the AFR Override isn't an option.

Don, I'm surprised nobody has recommended this yet, but I did it on mine, while it didn't help me any, it might you.  Get the bike good and heated up, then with the Laptop connected, (you are using a laptop I hope cause this won't work with a desktop, atleast not without a really long extension cord), setup the monitoring function and save it to a file, then go for a ride with the laptop in your tourpak, create whats happening and then go back and playback the file, it takes a while cause the playback is viewing something like 8 samples/second, also this information may help Zippers determine your problem (assuming they can) if you send them the file.  Ya gotta really pay attention during the playback but after looking at it for a bit you can see where you shift and accel and blah blah blah, it'll all make sense before long.  Just make sure you turn on monitoring for major functions like AFR, Timing, TP........anything you think might be helpful.

[Eqcons]

Thanks 2L - fingers crossed...

[SBB]

WOW


This is crazy!
And I have been worried about rebooting my Commadore 64!   
And I thought I had problems!


Good luck!


S
  /
    B

[Twolanerider]

Rhino, if you disable the sensors (basically taking it out of AutoTune Mode) then the AFR Override isn't an option.

Don, I'm surprised nobody has recommended this yet, but I did it on mine, while it didn't help me any, it might you.  

Thanks Fr8, even though the capability exists in the software Zippers hadn't suggested it.  I pulled such a log earlier with the original map.  It did take a while to study it the first time and begin to understand what was being read.

Used it for some of the timing changes I made at one point working with the unrevised original map.  The upside was that some of the changes were better than just across-the-board general, they could be a bit more targeted.  The downside was that if I retarded timing enough to even get close to getting rid of the detonation the bike was neutered.  So detuned that if the options were leaving it that way or throwing away the Thundermax you'd have to throw away the Thundermax. 

[Midnight Rider]

Jim....sincerely hope that the fix is a simple one for your problem.  Seems that the dealer there could at least eliminate the things that would obviously not let the cylinder fire, even if they can't do anything with the Tmax.  At least you'd be at a point of knowing whether the problem is in fact the ECM, then take whatever steps needed to get the bike on the road again for the rest of your trip.  I know this is a nighmarish experience for you, and I hate that you are going through this on your Holiday...