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Author Topic: TMAT  (Read 46389 times)

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iski

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Re: TMAT
« Reply #255 on: June 26, 2007, 09:32:54 PM »

Not yet Howie....  We'll see what the damage is I think, but I suspect I'll be changing the TMAT for a SERT on the new motor.

Jim

Sorry to read about your troubles, Jim, but the MoCo came through for you.

Good idea you have there.

Hope you enjoy the rest of your trip!
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Eqcons

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Re: TMAT
« Reply #256 on: June 27, 2007, 03:00:07 AM »

Well should it come up, get with some of the guys here that have had the same issue without the TMAT, if you work with them perhaps a couple VIN's that have had the same issue might ring a little louder in the MoCo's ears.......Good luck with it, glad they set you up so you could continue riding.....

In fairness to the TMAT, I can't say it's in any way to blame at the moment; these bikes - even in standard form, run way too hot, especially (for obvious reasons) on the rear cylinder.

The TMAT otherwise performs faultlessly, and even the standard Ultra the Moco have loaned me pings on the good gas in this heat.   And it has blued mufflers.  IF I change the TMAT for a SERT, it'll be because if I do get stuck somewhere, with the TMAT, the techs can't connect their digitech to look at error codes, not because I feel the TMAT isn't up to the job.

Jim
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bisounours

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Re: TMAT
« Reply #257 on: June 27, 2007, 03:51:22 AM »

Jim,

Happy to read your news !
I wish you an happy end for your holidays but it's rainy in France and in England and Scotland.
Ride safe !

I've stopped my travel to Fuengirola in the Pyrenees the 19th June.
Tomorrow, I go to the dealer for my starter and the heat's problems.
Wait and see !
I've received my TM/AT and probably I'll mount it after this visit.

Jacques

Nota : I decide to wash my bike after my "little" ride and now, I'm same the others :
I've my leak on the head gasket on the rear cylinder.  8)

  :beerchug: :beerchug: :beerchug:
« Last Edit: June 27, 2007, 09:16:24 AM by bisounours »
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Eqcons

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Re: TMAT
« Reply #258 on: June 27, 2007, 07:39:26 PM »

Jim,

Happy to read your news !
I wish you an happy end for your holidays but it's rainy in France and in England and Scotland.
Ride safe !

I've stopped my travel to Fuengirola in the Pyrenees the 19th June.
Tomorrow, I go to the dealer for my starter and the heat's problems.
Wait and see !
I've received my TM/AT and probably I'll mount it after this visit.

Jacques

Nota : I decide to wash my bike after my "little" ride and now, I'm same the others :
I've my leak on the head gasket on the rear cylinder.  8)

  :beerchug: :beerchug: :beerchug:


Hi Jacques - we are back in France (Dax tonight, Chatellerault tomorrow night).   Why did you stop in the Pyrenees?
We were in the Pyrenees on the 18th - through Andorra.

Interestingly my head gasket does not show the "usual" leak at the rear, but my friend's does, after the trip to Fuengirola!

Jim
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bisounours

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Re: TMAT
« Reply #259 on: June 28, 2007, 10:50:04 AM »

Hello Jim,

Just I arrive from my dealer where I put my bike.
He'll change the head gaskets (only the rear cylinder have a leak) and check the rocker boxes.
Concerning the last point, I've sended the pics from this thread :
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=14631.15
Now I'll wait 2 or 3 weeks before I ride again with my baby.

I arrived in the Pyrenees the 19th June by Perpignan and I explain my problems in my pic's reports :
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=14620.0
in the first topic.
It was not reasonable to ride to Fuengirola because when I stopped my engine, I was not sure to start again.

I've had a good discussion with the SM this morning about the generic problems of the 110ci.
I related all experiences of the owners from the site.
He agree with me for the head gaskets because he had another customer (SERK) with the leak.
Concerning the rocker boxes, he had no informations from the Moco.
He'll look on mine because he'll change the gaskets but without that, he'll look not.
I advise him to check before the crank runout. Same : no information from the MoCo.
I explain him if it's out, it'll not necessary to dismount the other parts because he need to change the engine.
Concerning this point, he'll not check without MoCo's informations.

I explain him that the heat is the origin of all problems.
He agree with me and advise me to change my exhaust, A/C and a SERT.
I said him that I've the exhaust, the RYO A/C and I bought a TM/AT.
I explain him the system and I ask him if it's a problem for the warranty.
I'll have not a paper but he says me :
If we have a problem and it'll possible to replace the TM/AT with the ECM, he'll manage the problem of warranty with the MoCo.
Sure, this way is possible with my dealer but if the bike is out in other place, I need to bring with me the ECM and O2 sensors.

Good news, the rain will come back not before Friday afternoon on the West of France..

Jacques








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FR8TRN

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Re: TMAT
« Reply #260 on: July 03, 2007, 11:24:49 AM »

Well this thread sort of died abruptly......2Lane, how is it going with your scoot??   You finally pulled the magical plug and gone back to stock ECM and PCIII????
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Twolanerider

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Re: TMAT
« Reply #261 on: July 03, 2007, 12:03:38 PM »

Well this thread sort of died abruptly......2Lane, how is it going with your scoot??   You finally pulled the magical plug and gone back to stock ECM and PCIII????

Fr8, I'm in the process.  Just got back home from an aborted attempt actually.

After the long delay in actually getting a response from the company there was the response that was seen here.  Zipper's Fitzmaurice offered an alternative or two and answered a couple of emails.  All that was a real response.  In and of itself that was much better than before.  The downside was that the revised map he provided didn't help.

I let him now that I had an impending travel deadline.  A deadline we were now pushing more because of the delay initially in getting any real response from the company (didn't say that to him while he was helping, only "thanks for the help").

Almost immediately after letting him know of the deadline he responded by saying we'd have to begin a "surgical approach" that would apparently include several incremental steps.  In other words lots of time.  After he offers an idea, I do it, he studies the result, offers a variation to continue that idea or moves on to something different.  It would be easy to see how such a process could take quite some time. 

At a minimum between his time and mine each individual cycle would easily be two or three days.  Also unfortunate for a system that was supposed to do all that itself and was presented as being mapped so closely to my bike that it would be good to go without concern or issue.

No way that would get worked through, with certainty, before the Nelson trip.  Not their fault.  Not mine.  I do not necessarily believe the "surgical process" was suggested when it was to push the travel deadline and force me to consider alternatives and relieve them of responsibility for further efforts.

That was the effect though.

I advised him in a responding email that I'd have to consider alternatives.  The various options for local tuners have busy schedules.  I was scheduled to get the bike tuned at a dealer with a decent rep on the south side of Kansas City this morning.  Got part way there and found the highway closed due to flooding from recent heavy rains.  Appintment now rescheduled for Friday and will have to take an alternative route that turns a two hour trip in to almost a four hour trip.  But it'll at least be done.

The last troubling part, however, was this.  When I advised Zippers that I'd have to pursue a Plan-B option I also suggested to them what seemed to me a very fair alternative.  I'd be getting the bike tuned alternatively right now.  My expense.  Nothing asked or expected of them.  This allowed a lot more time flexibility for them actually.

I then suggested that in the late summer or early fall I simply bring them the bike.  They could take a few hours one day and just make it right.  They could deliver on the promise of the system and the promise of the advertising for the system.  From my take on what Fitzmaurice had seemed to suggest might be involved in the "surgical process" they'd also have less man hours in just tuning it once than he'd spend methodically and carefully working through these many steps and alternatives. 

I'd supply cross country travel and they'd supply a small hand full of hours morning or afternoon.  In the process they'd get the opportunity to step up and make it right.  It seemed a completely fair suggestion that (to me) any business would have jumped at.  I got no response.  Zero.  Zilch.  Nada.

Thinking it couldn't be them I emailed again a few days later.  Again no response.  Zero. Zilch.  Nada.

Obviously I can't know what's in another's mind.  I can't know that when put in the position of actually having to prove themselves effective and make real the promises of the system and its advertising that they just chose to again be as non-responsive as they'd been initially.  It could just be email.....

What I do know is that, barring even more high water, the bike will be tuned and ready to go on Friday.  I also know that, all reason for delay being irrelevant, the fact of delay in response from Zippers is too real to accept if one needed support while travelling.  Quality of hardware notwithstanding, in my experience the company has simply been wholly unreliable.  That other's experiences are better is fine.  I'm happy for their good fortune.  When needing assistance with a primary system, however, it's just not good enough to wonder if it could just be email.....
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Talon

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Re: TMAT
« Reply #262 on: July 03, 2007, 12:35:17 PM »

2LR, sorry to hear you still having issues, I was about to send a note wanting to know you status. This has made me really rethink the purchase of the TMAT. It'll be be interesting to see what your tuner finds, keep us posted!

I guess my question it how many people out there have the TMAT, and how many are having problems???  From what I seen on several threads there are a few with this same problem, don't need to go into detail, but it would be nice to get numbers as to how many are working ok, verses not. The bottom line to me is this may be a fairly new product, so some problems may be expected, but the lack of support and resolution of the problem, is a problem!!     
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Twolanerider

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Re: TMAT
« Reply #263 on: July 03, 2007, 12:54:55 PM »

2LR, sorry to hear you still having issues, I was about to send a note wanting to know you status. This has made me really rethink the purchase of the TMAT. It'll be be interesting to see what your tuner finds, keep us posted!

I guess my question it how many people out there have the TMAT, and how many are having problems???  From what I seen on several threads there are a few with this same problem, don't need to go into detail, but it would be nice to get numbers as to how many are working ok, verses not. The bottom line to me is this may be a fairly new product, so some problems may be expected, but the lack of support and resolution of the problem, is a problem!!     

Talon, we share much the same view.  Sometimes parts give a problem.  They just do.  And sometimes they don't.  For those that don't have issue that's great.  We envy them their good fortune.  It's not their experience, however, that the company's efforts should be judged by.  It's easy to be good when nothing is really asked of you.

We also agree that neither good fortune nor problem is universal here.  From the several PMs I've received and those that have participated in this conversation publicly I know that even among our small group there are several who are experiencing some type of hardware or support related issue.  And again, for those that haven't I'm sure every one of us that have envy them their success.

Speaking only to my particular case it's just unfortunate that the specific things I asked about and were promised (simple, effective, reliable, not extreme, regular cruising use) are specifically those things which weren't to be.  A base map that was supposed to be "nearly perfect" (relative to their own supplied engine kit) obviously isn't.  The system's ability to compensate and adjust as advertised also doesn't meet its demands relative to the way the company supplied the product.  Getting help was initially difficult and slow, then provided to the extent described above, then faded away again.

The only thing I might suggest is that a prospective client of theirs go in with eyes wide open.  Ask lots of question.  Pointed questions.  Of course I asked a lot of questions too.  If your experience is seamless it will likely be very much so.  If not, however, it might become very very difficult and annoying to tie those seams back together.  My own such metaphorical seams were ripped apart allowing the Thundermax parts to fall through the hole created.  They now reside on the work bench where I expect they'll be til such time as they visit eBay (as Zippers stepping back up seems less likely with each passing day).
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ccr

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Re: TMAT
« Reply #264 on: July 03, 2007, 01:09:18 PM »

Don,  no matter what you do with getting this system working on your bike later this fall, I sure hope nothing about it is going to stop you from being able to make the trek to Nelson.

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Twolanerider

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Re: TMAT
« Reply #265 on: July 03, 2007, 01:22:22 PM »

Don,  no matter what you do with getting this system working on your bike later this fall, I sure hope nothing about it is going to stop you from being able to make the trek to Nelson.



Me too Candy.  That has been the sole motivator for a long time now.  When the initial request for assistance took a month to finally start getting assistance I knew that (given the efforts of many vendors today) I might be pushing it close. 

That's why when it got close I was willing to jump to a Plan B.  Got to get on the road.  There's also a Plan C tuning option on the 9th or 10th.  But I don't want to push it that close.  John Golden is going to be back in town for a couple of days then.  As much as I'd love John to do it I don't want to be messing with until literally the day before departure.  After all, I still want to ride it a little bit with the trailer behind me before I go just to get a feel for it.

The flooded out highways between here and Kansas City stopped me this morning.  Am now rescheduled for Friday morning at 1000.  With both of the major north/south options washed out from here it'll be a long enough trip I might even go up Thursday evening now and stay with a friend.  I started to say "come hell or high water it'll get done though."  But the high water thing got me today  :huepfenlol2: .
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ccr

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Re: TMAT
« Reply #266 on: July 03, 2007, 02:02:47 PM »

...I started to say "come hell or high water it'll get done though."  But the high water thing got me today  :huepfenlol2: .

Kind of be careful what you ask for.

Don't want to claim to be like the letter carriers either for the same reason. 

WFP did that when he went to the SEEG Plate Meeting for Nor Reason, and he got the rain, ice and snow on that trip. I don't want to see all that.
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FR8TRN

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Re: TMAT
« Reply #267 on: July 03, 2007, 02:06:19 PM »

Well enjoy your trip Don, the important part is you'll be riding.  Sad you hadn't heard back on getting them to tune it later this year.  Hopefully it all works out.....
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jfh

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Re: TMAT
« Reply #268 on: July 03, 2007, 07:51:15 PM »

Me too Candy.  That has been the sole motivator for a long time now.  When the initial request for assistance took a month to finally start getting assistance I knew that (given the efforts of many vendors today) I might be pushing it close. 

That's why when it got close I was willing to jump to a Plan B.  Got to get on the road.  There's also a Plan C tuning option on the 9th or 10th.  But I don't want to push it that close.  John Golden is going to be back in town for a couple of days then.  As much as I'd love John to do it I don't want to be messing with until literally the day before departure.  After all, I still want to ride it a little bit with the trailer behind me before I go just to get a feel for it.

:huepfenlol2: .

Don,

It is very disappointing that the onset of hot weather has had such a dramtic impact on what had been a very impressive build, 119HP/119TQ!

I won't go into the T-MAX product claims or customer service issues since they have already been thoroughly addressed in this thread.

A note of caution for your future tuning endeavors:  As good as his reputation appears, even John Golden doesn't have a magic wand for all tuning matters.  Two weeks ago I recommend a friend have John tune his PC equipped 95" build that was experiencing similar problems to yours.  John had it on the dyno for almost an hour and made some progress, but was unable to eliminate all the detonation.  He opined that perhaps it was related to compression building too quickly and instructed my friend to contact Hillside Cycles, who configured the build, for their advice.  On the way to Hillside, my friend brought his bike to nearby Joe's Cycle Repair in Mechanicsville, NY for a second tuning opinion.  Joe is also a renowned tuning guru.  After getting the bike on the dyno, Joe reported that fuel and timing maps for the rear cylinder had not been done independently from the front.  I was there when John tuned it and can attest to the fact that he only measured the A/F for the front cylinder (RH True Duals).  Joe was able to dial out the remaining detonation and increase performance by 5 HP and 4 FT/LB TQ.  To be fair to John, the compression (219 psi CCR) is an issue that Hillside is now lowering.  Nonetheless, he still only tuned it from the front cylinder.  My point is that at the end of the day it takes a skilled technician AND a knowledgeable consumer to ensure the job gets done right.

I hope you are able to get yours done right so you can begin to enjoy riding again.
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Twolanerider

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Re: TMAT
« Reply #269 on: July 03, 2007, 08:33:40 PM »



I hope you are able to get yours done right so you can begin to enjoy riding again.




Thanks HDFR.  Fully understand that hardware too extreme might lead to a problem that tuning itself can't correct.  Of course part of the conversation on this particular top end rebuild included precisely the discussion to preclude that; or at least it was supposed to.

All the hardware is from the same vendor.  All the machine work was from that same vendor.  The tuning/ignition package was from the same vendor.  All at the same time.  All purchased following a discussion that included statements like "nothing extreme," "reliable cruiser," "don't even want to mess with compression releases" and "needs to be reliable for long rides."

With those as guidance and instruction to the vendor and the vendor supplying the package in return I don't think I'm being unfair asking for something different then the experience received so far.  You're right too in that the bike did run great in cool weather.  It gets by without compression releases without issue. 

It does nothing (besides the detonation) to make one believe it is "extreme" in any way.  CR isn't frighteningly high, etc etc etc.  All that leaves me optimistic that a proper tuning effort will have it going.  But you're also right that I do not know that for a fact.  And I won't until the tuning effort is tried.

If it works, great.  I move on and, quite frankly, don't worry about it.  If it doesn't, however, then after all the guidance and instruction given the vendor prior to parts acquisition I've got a completely different conversation to begin with them.
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