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[REGGAB]

I will occasionally get some pinging from my motor.  It occurs at the beginning of acceleration while in cruise mode.........say, if I am passing a vehicle in front of me.  It doesn't happen constantly.  Specifically, it will happen if if I've been cruising at a constant speed for any length of time, and when I roll on the throttle.  Never happens from a dead stop to acceleration.  No decel popping at all.  My motor is a basically stock TC103 save for SE A/C, SE 65115-98B Slip-On mufflers, and SE TC103 Stage 1 Race ECM flash P/N:  34303-06.  Oil temp is running between 225 and 231.  I use premium gasoline, usally 91, but try to get 93 when I can.  This started with the onset of hot weather.  Noticed it several times while coming home from Kansas last week, and during rides yesterday and this morning.  Any ideas?

More questions.  I understand detonation to be preignition of fuel prior to the pistons completing their full compression stroke.  Are the terms "detonation" and "pinging"  used interchangably?  Is one different from the other?  Or are they they same thing?  Thanks.

[jfh]

IMore questions.  I understand detonation to be preignition of fuel prior to the pistons completing their full compression stroke.  Are the terms "detonation" and "pinging"  used interchangably?  Is one different from the other?  Or are they they same thing?  Thanks.

REGGAB,

Pinging and detonation are the same thing.  The search function will direct you to threads by many on this site who are experiencing similar problems. Based on your mild modifications, a Power Commander or H-D Race Tuner in the hands of a competent technician should easily fix the problem. The Stage 1 flash you are using is probably providing an A/F ratio that is still too lean.  A GOOD tuner would be my first course of action.  Good luck.

[grc]

I will occasionally get some pinging from my motor.  It occurs at the beginning of acceleration while in cruise mode.........say, if I am passing a vehicle in front of me.  It doesn't happen constantly.  Specifically, it will happen if if I've been cruising at a constant speed for any length of time, and when I roll on the throttle.  Never happens from a dead stop to acceleration.  No decel popping at all.  My motor is a basically stock TC103 save for SE A/C, SE 65115-98B Slip-On mufflers, and SE TC103 Stage 1 Race ECM flash P/N:  34303-06.  Oil temp is running between 225 and 231.  I use premium gasoline, usally 91, but try to get 93 when I can.  This started with the onset of hot weather.  Noticed it several times while coming home from Kansas last week, and during rides yesterday and this morning.  Any ideas?

More questions.  I understand detonation to be preignition of fuel prior to the pistons completing their full compression stroke.  Are the terms "detonation" and "pinging"  used interchangably?  Is one different from the other?  Or are they they same thing?  Thanks.

Henry,

Technically, there are two different conditions that people call "pinging".  Preignition is a condition whereby the fuel/air mixture is ignited early, usually by a local hot spot in the combustion chamber such as carbon deposits or a sharp edge.  Detonation is a different condition whereby a portion of the fuel/air mixture "explodes" after the plug has started combustion, rather than burning smoothly.  Of the two conditions, detonation is much more common and is the issue most of us see on our Harley's.

BTW - I didn't experience much "pinging" last year with my setup (stock 103, SE A/C, Slip-Ons, PCIII), but I did this spring with the exact same setup.  Two causes come to mind:  Refiner's were slow to get summer blends into circulation this year, especially on slower moving products like premium, and we had some early high temps in the 90's, and H-D injectors are not very resistant to fouling.  I ran a couple tanks of gas through with extra injector cleaner (4 oz. per 5 gallons), and improved my pinging during roll-ons by about 60%.  I've got two new injectors ordered, since cleaning these things on the bike is rarely 100% effective.  I'm thinking about sending the originals to this place for professional evaluation and cleaning:  Marren Fuel Injection   http://www.injector.com/  

Jerry

[Fired00d]

Henry,

Technically, there are two different conditions that people call "pinging".  Preignition is a condition whereby the fuel/air mixture is ignited early, usually by a local hot spot in the combustion chamber such as carbon deposits or a sharp edge.  Detonation is a different condition whereby a portion of the fuel/air mixture "explodes" after the plug has started combustion, rather than burning smoothly.  Of the two conditions, detonation is much more common and is the issue most of us see on our Harley's.

BTW - I didn't experience much "pinging" last year with my setup (stock 103, SE A/C, Slip-Ons, PCIII), but I did this spring with the exact same setup.  Two causes come to mind:  Refiner's were slow to get summer blends into circulation this year, especially on slower moving products like premium, and we had some early high temps in the 90's, and H-D injectors are not very resistant to fouling.  I ran a couple tanks of gas through with extra injector cleaner (4 oz. per 5 gallons), and improved my pinging during roll-ons by about 60%.  I've got two new injectors ordered, since cleaning these things on the bike is rarely 100% effective.  I'm thinking about sending the originals to this place for professional evaluation and cleaning:  Marren Fuel Injection   http://www.injector.com/  

Jerry

Would there be any harm in adding some injector cleaner periodically as a maintenance procedure?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[REGGAB]

REGGAB,

Pinging and detonation are the same thing.  The search function will direct you to threads by many on this site who are experiencing similar problems. Based on your mild modifications, a Power Commander or H-D Race Tuner in the hands of a competent technician should easily fix the problem. The Stage 1 flash you are using is probably providing an A/F ratio that is still too lean.  A GOOD tuner would be my first course of action.  Good luck.

  Thank you.

[REGGAB]

Henry,

Technically, there are two different conditions that people call "pinging".  Preignition is a condition whereby the fuel/air mixture is ignited early, usually by a local hot spot in the combustion chamber such as carbon deposits or a sharp edge.  Detonation is a different condition whereby a portion of the fuel/air mixture "explodes" after the plug has started combustion, rather than burning smoothly.  Of the two conditions, detonation is much more common and is the issue most of us see on our Harley's.

BTW - I didn't experience much "pinging" last year with my setup (stock 103, SE A/C, Slip-Ons, PCIII), but I did this spring with the exact same setup.  Two causes come to mind:  Refiner's were slow to get summer blends into circulation this year, especially on slower moving products like premium, and we had some early high temps in the 90's, and H-D injectors are not very resistant to fouling.  I ran a couple tanks of gas through with extra injector cleaner (4 oz. per 5 gallons), and improved my pinging during roll-ons by about 60%.  I've got two new injectors ordered, since cleaning these things on the bike is rarely 100% effective.  I'm thinking about sending the originals to this place for professional evaluation and cleaning:  Marren Fuel Injection   http://www.injector.com/  

Jerry

  Thank you.  Exactly what I was looking for.  Very good information.

[Rhino]

Never add anything other than gasoline. It can throw sensors out of wack.  If you are running the bike (or car) regularily, injector cleaner is some marketing guys wet dream..  oh yeh, IMHO disclaimer.   The one thing for sure you can try, is a high octane fuel, like Sunoco Race fuel, no more than a 50-50 mix max, or, go to the airport and beg for a gallon of 110 if Sunoco or a race shop supply not available.  This gets you through the doldrums in abundance with the oil companies bad timing on changeovers, and bad mixes etc.    If that cures it, of course, then you can simply tune it out to compensate for the wonderful fuel we get nowadays.

Rhino

Would there be any harm in adding some injector cleaner periodically as a maintenance procedure?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[grc]

Would there be any harm in adding some injector cleaner periodically as a maintenance procedure?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

'dood,

There shouldn't be any harm as long as the quantity used is appropriate.  When you buy this stuff it's normally packaged in quantities for 20 gallon automotive fuel tanks.  Just use 1/4 of the container for a 5 gallon tank of gas.  I normally do this once a month (when I don't forget).  If the fuel companies didn't play games with their additive packages we wouldn't need to do this at all.  They are supposed to include sufficient cleaning agents to keep injectors clean, but independent testing normally finds that most companies aren't meeting their obligation.  I guess the fuel industry doesn't make enough profit and has to scrimp on the additives to eke out a living.  

Jerry

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

We made a injector cleaning set up. We bought a extra tank quick disconnect, and use berry fuel injector cleaner. This is a product that is used on cars for injector tune ups. We wanted to see if it was a needed item. After doing this on over 50 bikes what we can up with was ..... nothing. We could not say as to it was helpful or not. We had bikes that ran good and ran poor. We could not find anything that would support cleaning them. We had no changes in drivablity, fuel milage, performance. So we stopped doing it. Now I had a 07 96 incher that was running overly rich in the front cylinder. I cleaned the injectors, nothing, I swapped the injector still nothing. Pulled as much fuel as we could from the front cylinder still dumping fuel. We where checking AFR 6 inch's from ex port with a wide band 02 sensor.

Found the intake had a small chuhnk of flashing covering the injector port. ??  I had never seen that. The injector was spraying fine, but a piece of flashing was covering a  1/3 of the nozzle, so it would spray but the fuel was being shot at the floor / wall of the intake manifold and it was dropping out of suspension, and puddling on the floor. 


Bike had been back to the dealer 5 or 6 times for a bunch of drivablity issue's they ranged from poor MPG( not common for a stock bike) hard restart, back firing, and fuel smell while riding. Go figure.

[REGGAB]

WOW!  What a week.  Took my scooter down to rod's Performance in Hanceville, AL on Tuesday.  He is removing my stock headers and installing Vance & Hines True Duals with my 65115-98B SE Slip-ons.  He is also installing a PCIIIUSB.  He will dyno tomorrow.  Hopefully this will clear up the pinging.  I'll keep you posted.

[RJ749]

WOW!  What a week.  Took my scooter down to rod's Performance in Hanceville, AL on Tuesday.  He is removing my stock headers and installing Vance & Hines True Duals with my 65115-98B SE Slip-ons.  He is also installing a PCIIIUSB.  He will dyno tomorrow.  Hopefully this will clear up the pinging.  I'll keep you posted.

Best of luck sounds like the right direction.

You may have found some info on the problem if d00d would have been his usuual self and referred you to the "pinking" thread.  http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=8411.0 (couldn't resist) 

Looking forward to the dyno results, Rog

[REGGAB]

Best of luck sounds like the right direction.

You may have found some info on the problem if d00d would have been his usuual self and referred you to the "pinking" thread.  http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=8411.0 (couldn't resist) 

Looking forward to the dyno results, Rog

I plan to scan and post the results when rod finishes tomorrow.  Might have to wait until monday tho', since I won't have access to scanner until then.  I also plan on making a video of at leat one pull, posting it to my website, and linking to it in a post here.  I love dyno runs.  As a matter of fact, here is a link to a dyno pull done on my 02 Ultra Feb 2006 http://home.mchsi.com/~cvo/MVI_0657.AVI

[REGGAB]

Renea, Stef and I are getting ready to go to Hanceville, AL to pick up my scooter from Rod's Performance.  I'm so friggin' excited right now.  I exercised a little self-discipline this morning and at least read my assigned chapter and did my homework for the week for the class I'm taking this term.  Now that that task is complete, I'm really looking forward to a great afternoon of tuning the scooter.  Renea and Stef get into the dyno as much as I do.  With that, I'll leave you with the DT run sheet of my scooter, which shows its configuration prior to the mods I just had done.  We'll take pictures and a video and post here when we get home this evening.  Might be late, since I still have to mow the back lot and grill some pork chops for the Girls. Tomorrow is all about the research paper, so no riding for moi.

[Twolanerider]

Renea and Stef get into the dyno as much as I do. 

It's a sick sick family  .

[REGGAB]

It's a sick sick family  .

Yes we are!!!